16 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

So the min/max crowd helped determine the first pass on the quirks. And we can probably all look in the mirror and say some came out pretty bad. So why not open up the discussion to the rest of us?

Because believe it or not this game will never be League of Legends. We do not have a competitive scene that will get kids scholarships at Robert Morris. So why not tip your hat to the casuals that spend money on this game?

How about giving the players variety? Instead there is no the "one true path" for mechs and that is just boring and ineffective. Mainly because the min/max crowd not only has more knowledge than the casual player, but they have more skill and experience using the loadouts. And in two months when the next tweek or nerf happens the old paradigm reasserts itself anyway.

tl:dr open up the next iteration of quirks to everyone.

[Walluh]

It's not min-maxing, it's giving specific chassis and variants actual specializations, so there's actual reasons to use all of them instead of whatever has the best hardpoint locations, tonnage and hitboxes.

[Scratx]

Umm, we have variety in chassis like we've never had before, actually. Dragons were unicorns, along with a bucketload of other mechs, and we see them a lot more now.

So, what does "your majority" propose?

[Mechteric]

Scratx, on 10 November 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

So, what does "your majority" propose?

Free kittens and puppies for everyone, obviously.

[Kilo 40]

OP just wants to complain about "competitive players", not discuss quirks and mechs.

[Jetfire]

A. Of course MWO will never be a popular to the level of the big name MOBA's, MMORPG's or FPS's... because it isn't any of those things. I do not think we should lament the fact MWO will never have 6-60 million players because there was never any real chance of that.

B. The first quirk pass was amazing and created a wide variety of mechs with their own things going with reasons to actually field them. It might not have been 100% on the money, but it wasn't specifically for the competitive crowd.

Edited by Jetfire, 10 November 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[dJellyfish]

OP, I definitely agree with the others in that the quirk pass has NOT been a tragic failure. I'm seeing a lot of much-needed diversity on the field and I'm really enjoying the experience of piloting forgotten and overlooked chassis.

However, I do think some of the quirks are obviously from the comp crowd when it would have been more interesting to stick closer to the stock build (*cough* ARROW *cough*).

Twerks -tweaks to the quirks- very much need to happen.

[pulupulu]

Casual don't know how to build a proper mech no matter what quirk it got.

The moment a casual know how to make a good mech, he/she is no longer casual.

What I call "medium-core" is probably what the OP is talking about. But if anything, the new quirks are good for medium-core players, as they don't have to spend too much time at all to figure out what weapon that mech will be good with. Only thing is that they may get bored earlier, regardless they are right or wrong.

While hardcore player should do decently well regardless of quirks, and stick with this game for a good long time (assuming nothing s**tty happen).

[Slepnir]

I think I understand the OPs point as many of the mech quirks dont actually help out my builds much.

With the exception of the thunderbolt prise mech I run as a close to TT stock 10se which benefits from all it's quirks. my other mechs benefit less so-

for example I run my wolverine 7k as an 8k as such my erppc, medium laser, medium pulse laser and my "streak 6 "
dont benefit all that much from the chassi quirks as I have no desire to rebuild it.

The problem is the specific verses general weapon quirks. say a buff to ACs not to just an ac20 for example.

[R Razor]

Until some of these so called "competitive players" start getting paychecks they are nothing more than video game players that are better at exploiting arguably bad game mechanics and nothing more.

That said, the quirk pass did what it was supposed to do, it brought more variety to the battlefield and gave some much needed love to mechs that were otherwise never seen outside of a new players first 25 matches.

[Burktross]

[Redacted]

Edited by Burktross, 10 November 2014 - 07:36 PM.

[Kassatsu]

I have yet to see more than one Awesome since the quirk pass, it kind of melted in front of my Battlemaster as it desperately tried to outdamage my large pulse lasers (and failed miserably) with its 3x ER PPCs. Then it ran and got finished off by the rest of my team. If I recall correctly I cored it and it had a bright orange CT while my Battlemaster still had orange-ish CT armor. I started with less HP than he did and it was a straight up staredown. I realize Awesomes are supposed to be snipers and not brawlers like the one I was piloting (it's actually more of a massive poker), but come on. Awesomes are still god awful mechs and a waste of an assault slot when you could be piloting ANYTHING ELSE.

I've also literally not seen a single Quickdraw anywhere. Does that mean they need more buffs, different buffs or a complete rework of everything from the very first design sketch? Probably.

I don't know. How could I know, I've never piloted either because they're both god awful mechs, both before and after quirks, and I'm also not part of this mysterious player council that knows everything there is to know about the universe and is gracing us lowly peasants with their knowledge of how to fix MWO, who has thus far avoided having to give any real proof of existence in the first place (that I've seen anyway).

EDIT: With working jump jets the QKD might actually almost be useful. I know I've had huge success running my Nova with the now back to 5 damage 12xCERsmlas and being able to actually you know, jump. It's very map-specific and situational at best on some maps, and then of course there's alpine.

Edited by Kassatsu, 10 November 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

I think generalized quirks would have been better.

Base +energy/+ballistic/+missle bonuses
and less on the specific weapon bonuses (this variant gets massive bonus to AC20 only, or LRM15 only ect)

Quirks based much more closely on Variant defaults could have been better defined too.

Look at the Dragon 5n (C)
Should have been Gauss + LL specific quirks which line up with its Champion model

or the
Blackjack BJ-1(C)
It gets AC-2 quirks?
and the Arrow got AC-20 bonus which has nothing at all to do with its default loadout.

or the Firestarter(S) FS9-S (DUAL AMS)
Getting ERLL bonus? lol?
Should have been something that fits its most useful and common loads
Being Medlas/smalls + AMS bonus quirks.

All being said, the quirks have definitely brought some underdogs back into the useful bracket.
And some even to OP status, such as the Thunderbolt (WubWubolt!), Dragon 1N for ultimate AC-5 dakka and arguably the HBK-4G with the massive AC20 bonus, those 3 mechs alone are now murder machines.

But they still rely on very specific builds, and all variants of them are not created equally.

We know its just the 1st pass, and quite honestly its amazing to see so many and such a wide variety of mechs being out there, I just hope it gets cleaned up a little bit and more refined as we move forward

Edited by Mister D, 10 November 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Walluh, on 10 November 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

It's not min-maxing, it's giving specific chassis and variants actual specializations, so there's actual reasons to use all of them instead of whatever has the best hardpoint locations, tonnage and hitboxes.

So instead what gets used now are the ones with the best silly artificial boating quirks (currently the Thunderbolt, Dragon, Awesome and Wolverine). Most of the rest of the mechs still suck. Wow, big improvement to gameplay.

[Scratx]

Mister D, on 10 November 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

I think generalized quirks would have been better.

Base +energy/+ballistic/+missle bonuses
and less on the specific weapon bonuses (this variant gets massive bonus to AC20 only, or LRM15 only ect)

Quirks based much more closely on Variant defaults could have been better defined too.

Look at the Dragon 5n (C)
Should have been Gauss + LL specific quirks which line up with its Champion model

or the
Blackjack BJ-1(C)
It gets AC-2 quirks?
and the Arrow got AC-20 bonus which has nothing at all to do with its default loadout.

or the Firestarter(S) FS9-S (DUAL AMS)
Getting ERLL bonus? lol?
Should have been something that fits its most useful and common loads
Being Medlas/smalls + AMS bonus quirks.

All being said, the quirks have definitely brought some underdogs back into the useful bracket.
And some even to OP status, such as the Thunderbolt (WubWubolt!), Dragon 1N for ultimate AC-5 dakka and arguably the HBK-4G with the massive AC20 bonus, those 3 mechs alone are now murder machines.

But they still rely on very specific builds, and all variants of them are not created equally.

We know its just the 1st pass, and quite honestly its amazing to see so many and such a wide variety of mechs being out there, I just hope it gets cleaned up a little bit and more refined as we move forward

Generalized would not have worked.

Consider the two Hunchbacks with ballistic hunches, the 4G and the 4H. If you have only general category buffs, how do you make the 4G useful and desirable instead of the 4H? If I, say, want an AC20 mech, I can do it on the 4G, 4H and some Shadowhawks, not to mention a few others. Why should I pick the 4G? There's nothing it can do the 4H can't do better where big ballistics are concerned. The 4H even has 5 energy hardpoints, so you could slap more lasers in along the AC20....

Enter the specialized quirks. 4G gets an AC20 focus, 4H gets an AC10 focus, Shadowhawk gets neither (IIRC) so it doesn't eat the lunch of the Hunchbacks ... and this way you have a good reason to bring a 4G over a 4H. And a reason to bring a Hunchback over a Shadowhawk with an AC20. Etc.

Apply this thinking to the entire mech stable and you start getting the idea. Yes, the quirks favor specific builds. GET OVER IT. Most of those mechs weren't being used anyway! They were unicorns.

That's what the Quirkening did, brought out the Unicorns from their hidden stables. And it did so thanks to the specific quirks, which can be a lot higher than general quirks...

[Kassatsu]

I still say the WVR-6R, DRG-1N and HBK-4G are a bit much. Haven't touched any of the quirked wubs yet but they're probably equally hilarious.

There's just something very wrong with a 55 ton mech with jump jets running 88.4kph able to fire an AC10 with much faster projectiles nearly as fast as other mechs can fire an AC2. Oh right, did I mention I haven't even gotten speed tweak on my WVR? Just wait until it's running 96.

On the other hand, that silly OP AC10 is on the right arm and nowhere else, and people will probably learn to actually shoot at hunchbacks again.

Edited by Kassatsu, 10 November 2014 - 09:05 PM.

[Krivvan]

If you thought the quirks were meant to just appease what the "comp" crowd wanted to play, then why were there even any LRM quirks?

Scratx, on 10 November 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

Generalized would not have worked.

Consider the two Hunchbacks with ballistic hunches, the 4G and the 4H. If you have only general category buffs, how do you make the 4G useful and desirable instead of the 4H?

Acceleration, decceleration, torso twist speed and extent, jump jet impulse (for some mechs), one getting more range whereas the other getting more cooldown, etc.

Edited by Krivvan, 10 November 2014 - 09:18 PM.