66 replies to this topic

[Tastian]

I just read a post yesterday saying that lights need help because they can all get one-shotted.

[Lily from animove]

Tastian, on 11 November 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

I just read a post yesterday saying that lights need help because they can all get one-shotted.

the only times they get one shotted is when they stand still or some nasty dualgauss builds. once they move at max speed, they magically eat more damage than assaults.

That is the issue, because they are either on the one side of an extreme or on the other. They need some kind of balance.

[Ultimax]

Hades Trooper, on 11 November 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

8 small pulse with those ranges and heat is plain OP

No, it really isn't.

[nehebkau]

Lily from animove, on 11 November 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

the amount of times I see FS9s on the top of the scorebaord being excessively high in dmg and stuff makes me wonder if they aren't a bit overbuffed at all.

but then, no wonder when you can hit them but not damage. if hitreg would work, they would probably be ok.

Yes, only OP things about the firestarter are:

• Hit Reg has gone for crap in the past 3 months.
  
• Firestarter, unlike most other lights, doesn't have messed up hit-boxes, they are very tight.

[Shlkt]

The changes to small pulse lasers in the most recent patch (damage increased, heat decreased) were dramatic, and frankly a dramatic change was necessary to make the equipment viable. The range is too much of a drawback without a major heat advantage to compensate.

I've had several dozen drops in the FS9-A since the patch. It's wonderful to finally have some lasers with decent heat efficiency. When the push finally happens you can contribute to every kill without heat issues.

But until the push happens you're basically useless. With modules and quirks my optimal firing range is only ~135m (Locusts are better in that regard). If you haven't tried it then you may be underestimating just how much of a handicap that is. You can't really poke effectively, for one thing; you're within Seismic range all the time, so there's no sneaking up on people. If you get close enough to an enemy to actually damage them then you might have gotten too close to be able to disengage if they decide to chase.

In some ways it's an all-or-nothing build. With the right circumstances you perform very well, and in the wrong circumstances... you're about as useful as a LRM boat surrounded by tall buildings and ECM.

I like it.

Edited by Shlkt, 11 November 2014 - 07:13 AM.

[UrsusMorologus]

Firestarter is no problem by itself. Large square torso, arms, and legs, almost as big as a vindicator, pretty easy to hit when close. The new loadout might be strong, but all the energy weapon quirks are strong

Edited by UrsusMorologus, 11 November 2014 - 07:16 AM.

[topgun505]

Nothing more funny (or disgusting, depending on your point of view) watching a Firestarter or Spider being the last mech on a team and it takes 6 mechs pumping enough firepower into it that would normally obliterate a DW and the light just shrugs off most all of it.

Though, to be honest, the Spider is a FAR worse offender for this.

[Nightmare1]

*Chuckle* Another "I can't cope so it's OP!" thread.

It's amazing how fast these things breed.

[Gyrok]

Hades Trooper, on 11 November 2014 - 03:42 AM, said:

8 small pulse with those ranges and heat is plain OP.

thats no even counting the hit boxes that are near invulernable

Not to be mean, or rude, but IS lights have been OP for quite some time...

[MeiSooHaityu]

Shlkt, on 11 November 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

The changes to small pulse lasers in the most recent patch (damage increased, heat decreased) were dramatic, and frankly a dramatic change was necessary to make the equipment viable. The range is too much of a drawback without a major heat advantage to compensate.

I've had several dozen drops in the FS9-A since the patch. It's wonderful to finally have some lasers with decent heat efficiency. When the push finally happens you can contribute to every kill without heat issues.

But until the push happens you're basically useless. With modules and quirks my optimal firing range is only ~135m (Locusts are better in that regard). If you haven't tried it then you may be underestimating just how much of a handicap that is. You can't really poke effectively, for one thing; you're within Seismic range all the time, so there's no sneaking up on people. If you get close enough to an enemy to actually damage them then you might have gotten too close to be able to disengage if they decide to chase.

In some ways it's an all-or-nothing build. With the right circumstances you perform very well, and in the wrong circumstances... you're about as useful as a LRM boat surrounded by tall buildings and ECM.

I like it.

There is a lot of truth to that. With the range restrictions you have to get close. It is a very dangerous way to play, but also thrilling and very rewarding when it works.

With the quirks, it seems to be working more times than it is not.

The best thing when engaging is to wait for the enemy to be distracted. Even if you are showing up on seismic, that bigger enemy in front of him distracts him and that let's you absolutely wreck him.

I am starting to like light mechs more and more.

[Gyrok]

nehebkau, on 11 November 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Yes, only OP things about the firestarter are:

• Hit Reg has gone for crap in the past 3 months.
  
• Firestarter, unlike most other lights, doesn't have messed up hit-boxes, they are very tight.

For this reason...IS lights are OP.

[Kh0rn]

83 Point Alpha in a firestarter who was running in a straight line towards me....only orange armor...83 points should of breached it and probably destroyed it. It further goes on too remove my auto cannon because due too my ping not even counting the hit box issue I can not seem too hit it, leading does not work either.

[Bront]

As an Firestarter pilot, I can tell you that they to take hits. I've been oneshot by gauss several times, and I can't remember being hit by something and no damage registering (like I could in the spider pre-hitbox pass on it last year).

I was in a 1 on 1 dual last night to finish out a game. The enemy mech rarely shot at me, and when he did, he was often 15-20 meters behind where I was.

RE the FS9-A - I prefer the FS9-K. Small Lasers with a range of 175, with extra tonnage left over to throw in extra JJs, a larger engine, more heatsinks, BAP, or whatever my heart desires.

The trick with Firestarters though, as with most light mechs, is the legs. Leg shots tend to register better (Likely due to how fast their legs are moving, you're likely to hit something), don't spread damage much except to the other leg, and once you knock one off, lights are toast.

[KraftySOT]

FupDup, on 11 November 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

People, this is what the Firestarter's hitboxes look like:



Which part is "broken?"

The part where you put 3 LPL, 5 MPL, 63 points of damage, against one running straight at you, at 200m, and only turn its RT yellow.

Fun time.

Also managed yesterday, off topic, to put 371 points of damage only into the torso of an Awesome, and not kill it.

Hitreg.

[UrsusMorologus]

Point your laser at the lower half and a leg will move into it sooner or later

[Ultimax]

topgun505, on 11 November 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Nothing more funny (or disgusting, depending on your point of view) watching a Firestarter or Spider being the last mech on a team and it takes 6 mechs pumping enough firepower into it that would normally obliterate a DW and the light just shrugs off most all of it.

1) They are often the last alive because teams leave them for last while they deal with bigger threats.

2) If they are surviving 6 mechs firing at them, that means those mechs are missing their shots.

[John1352]

People forget that unlike Jenners, which die at 75% armor if it is maxed, Firestarters have BIG arms, balanced side torsos compared to their CT and can spread damage taken over every component. If someone is torso twisting in a firestarter, you're usually going to have to put 200+ points of damage into them before they go down. (Look at FupDup's picture on the first page)

I get hit a LOT when using Firestarters, but I have had them down below 20% health before I went down many times. I might lose a fresh arm to dual AC20s, but I still have lots of weapons left, SRMs spread out and hit many components. They're tough, but they don't have broken hitboxes.

I see people are talking about firestarters doing "HUGE" damage and "topping the scoreboard", every other thread about OP stuff has loads of screenshots (of carefully selected best games), where are the Firestarter ones?

[KraftySOT]

Ultimatum X, on 11 November 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

2) If they are surviving 6 mechs firing at them, that means those mechs are missing their shots.

lol no it doesnt. I regularly see tons of mechs putting out hundreds of points of damage, that even if 20% of their shots were hitting, these lights would be dead. Doesnt happen all the time...but enough that id say its regular. I love seeing lights where the entire mech is glowing red hot from being hit, but all is armor is still bright yellow, not even orange.

Need HTAL.

[Ultimax]

KraftySOT, on 11 November 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

lol no it doesnt. I regularly see tons of mechs putting out hundreds of points of damage, that even if 20% of their shots were hitting, these lights would be dead. Doesnt happen all the time...but enough that id say its regular. I love seeing lights where the entire mech is glowing red hot from being hit, but all is armor is still bright yellow, not even orange.

Need HTAL.

And I've spectated many a player thinking they are doing more than just grazing a light mech with lasers and complaining in chat.


Many players think they are a better shot than they actually are.

[Kain Demos]

If they're moving perpendicular at good speeds I'm inclined to say yes, aim better.

However my issue with lights is when they are standign still or moving straight towards me (just as easy of a shot) and somehow I still can't damage them.

Someone spectated me even commented on it the other night--I came around a corner only to surprise a light that had been standing still peeking or something and popped his stationary ass at point blank range with dual ppc/gauss and my ppcs passed right through and only the gauss registered.