97 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

It's easy mode. Half a dozen or more of you can focus fire without having to aim at (or even see) the target.

[Monkey Lover]

easy mode until some shoots at you and then you remember you wasted all you tons on worthless lrms

[terrycloth]

It's not safe -- your mech gives up the ability to fight in close combat and the enemy doesn't give up the ability to force you to fight in close combat. It's the same as running SRMs -- you need to be in your optimal range or you utterly suck. Just a different optimal range.

It's not really easy -- people don't hold locks very well, and there's usually tons of cover, so it's random chance that that indirect lock you got 'without effort' is going to be worth firing at. Getting your own locks is tough, since you really have to be on the ball to get the lock to finish and the *flight time* to finish before the target breaks LOS.

There is a sick pleasure from raining on people when you do get the chance, though. Especially when they're narced. If you can fit it in, put a narc on your LRM boat. The lulz will be doubled.

Mostly, I do it as a change from all my other mechs, which are all some sort of direct fire. All the other weapons are fundamentally the same, but LRMs are different. It's good for variety.

Edited by terrycloth, 11 November 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[Triordinant]

Clan LRMs have the additional benefit of taking up less space and weight (making room for backup weapons) and having no minimum range.

[OznerpaG]

LRMs are good against bad players, and are bad against good players

IMO if you are doing well with LRMs and/or are bitching about LRMs, you are (likely) in a lower ELO

you might do very well with LRMs for a pile of games, but the better you do the higher your ELO climbs, and as it climbs your LRMs arn't going to do so well and you will have to work a lot harder to get decent results - especially in the group queue where a lot of the better players group up

it's a different style of play - it's easy to get results at first, but to get consistent results requires good positioning and speed, not a slow lumbering massive pile of LRM tubes

[Capt Sternn]

LRMS are a support weapon that doesn't work well cause people don't understand TEAM PLAY. Or tactics. This game is 12 individual vs 12 individuals, there is no team play er go LRMs aren't useful.

[Mavairo]

Zelthar the mecha wizard, on 11 November 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Now, I'm got going to go on a long winded rant about "OMFG, PGI! LRMS ARE SOOOOOOOO [enter curse word(s) here] OP!!!!!111!!!11!!1111!". Though, I COULD if I wanted too but, I'm not sure is the character limit would allow me to post everything I wanted to say.


I'm just looking to ask some of you fine(possibly good looking) people who have boated LRMs exactly what the appeal of such a play style is? Personally, I can count on one hand the amount times I've used LRMs.

I assume it's because it's a safe and easy way to make C-bills.

When I do, it's for giggles. If nothing else I do it to see the QQ tears that issue forth.
Which only deepen when my A1 unloads an SRM 24 to the face of the poor souls that got close figuring I was just running 6 LRM5s to make my LRM 30 with.

They just aren't effective enough for me to justify carrying it as my only weapon system on anything but an 8R AWS.

Edited by Mavairo, 11 November 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[Slepnir]

It is not safe or easy. being a good LRM support mech takes some skill.
A single mech isn't what people really complain about, it when teams take them enmass. it's no different than a team spamming any other weapon.

What really irritates alot of players is the screen shake and blinding flash from getting hit by LRMs.

With the counters to LRMs like the taget deprivation module, ECM, min ranges, dual AMS(seriously this is one of my primary jobs in my jester with AMS range and overload along with 6K rounds of ammo) along with having to expose yourself to direct fire when you're team cannot get the locks for you. it's not as easy as some people think.

[Moonlander]

I can't imagine we need more threads to discuss LRMs at all. Regardless of what it's regarding...

[Kiiyor]

Zelthar the mecha wizard, on 11 November 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

Now, I'm got going to go on a long winded rant about "OMFG, PGI! LRMS ARE SOOOOOOOO [enter curse word(s) here] OP!!!!!111!!!11!!1111!". Though, I COULD if I wanted too but, I'm not sure is the character limit would allow me to post everything I wanted to say.


I'm just looking to ask some of you fine(possibly good looking) people who have boated LRMs exactly what the appeal of such a play style is? Personally, I can count on one hand the amount times I've used LRMs.

I assume it's because it's a safe and easy way to make C-bills.

It depends on how you pilot said boat.

I use TAG, and stare deep into the eyes of my enemies as I screen shake their fillings out.

There are others who only fire indirectly, and I frown on that a little, mainly because it gives you a false impression of your success when large damage numbers appear at the end of a match (larger because your missiles are spread more and are less effective), and because it in no way makes you a better player.

Many new players seem to get into the trap of boating exclusively, which leaves crucial skills like battlefield positioning and aiming with direct fire weapons undeveloped.

Their ELO will increase, yet their actual skill at playing the game will not.

There will then come a point where their ELO gets high enough that they will start to encounter players who know how to almost completely nullify the effectiveness of LRM's. Their scores will go down, they will start getting frustrated and making stupid mistakes, then take to the forums to rant, or will straight up quit. I've known three friends in particular that have gone down this route.

I enjoy using them sometimes as it is often a challenge to work around all their hard counters. Beating ECM mechs with TAG, landing NARC hits, getting up a nice UAV and prioritizing a target, these are all challenging things. Also, targeting MetaWolves and watching them slowly die under a barrage of missiles is a special kind of joy.

What I don't enjoy about them is when they appear on the battlefield in large numbers. Those matches invariably turn into a tedious game of "who can battle frustration longest". The winner is whoever holds their ground and waits for the enemy to do something stupid.

[Telmasa]

Well, my only founder's mech is the Catapult-C1...so you can probably guess I've done plenty of games being an LRM-boater.

Except, a great portion of my kills and damage also happen to come from my 4 medium lasers.

To truely succeed with LRMs, I think, you need to realize it's a support weapon...a "softener", if you will, that has plenty drawbacks (heat, ammo consumption, weight [not as much as ballistics, but still], slow travel time, spread-out damage [unless you take lots of LRM5s with artemis and chain-fire]), counters (ECM, target lock, radar deprivation, terrain, fast movement), necessary equipment to be truely effective (BAP, sensor range [personally speaking anyhow], target retention, TAG, artemis, narc), with only one okay, two real advantage(s) over any other type of weapon: good damage-per-tonnage ratio, and long range with the ability to fire indirectly (whereupon you lose the advantages of target retention and artemis, by the way - you have to see the mech directly yourself for those to work).

So in other words, it's a support weapon that nontheless is most effective when used in aggressive, direct combat (outside of 180m, of course), akin to boating lots of AC/5s, PPCs, or Gauss.

That's how I play my Catapult, I move with the team, use my extra bit of mobility to flank if necessary, and hit as many targets as I can with the LRM 15s, preferably with direct line of sight so my Artemis can focus the damage; then, move in and clean up with the 4 ML.


I think a lot of pugs tend to think LRMs is about "standing in the back", a la World of Tanks SPGs style of gameplay...and that's a mistaken way of thinking. Plus, as I mentioned with my editing, the high-damage-to-tonnage ratio compared to ballistics or the larger laser wapons has its appeals.

Yeah, I'll admit, sometimes teams do manage to use indirect fire & spotting to the fullest, leading to all the complaint threads on the forums, but with all the things that have to fall into place for that to succeed, I see it as a fair and balanced strategy with drawbacks and relatively simple counter-strategies.

A little bit of focused aggression is usually all it takes to rip those indirect-LRM-rain teams to pieces.


I have to admit, those LRM-80 stalkers are mean though. If one gets you in direct line of sight...it's gonna hurt.

Edited by Telmasa, 11 November 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[Abivard]

I like LRM's because I enjoy variety and complexity in my games.

The LRM haters simply can not or will not learn to play, nor can they really seem to handle more than a couple things at a time.
I strongly feel that perhaps a game like Pong might be far more to your liking, it requires little thought, has only a couple rules and you only have to move up or down with your controller.

Ok it does require a certain amount of eye hand coordination so that puts it out of reach of at least half the LRM QQ crowd.

Man it really must suck being a loser that can't avoid the worst most nerfed weapon system in the game.

[Mad Ox]

Due to its stay further back and not be in direct line of sight ways. Its a very good way for new player to get a handle on the game. They survive longer, can pay attention to the battle better, and ideally are not going mach 10 with hair burning off rushing to front lines to die doing nothing with most other builds they will use.

Yes its a much simpler form of Mech warrior, of course some of it I blame on PGI and Network. Ludicrous Video and Mouse settings and crap network ping.

Bad Ping speaks for itself staying back and out of the fur ball makes LRM boating a much better choice actually able to support team.

Nutty Video settings the game thinks it way more efficent then it really is. Friend kept complaining how ping went to crap and all sorts of stuff once he got near battle... finally dawned on me to have him check video setting of course maxed out which I know he didn't do his PC being maxed no way in heck. Dropped some setting and boom different world. Reminded me that I had similar problems and so did most of my friends when starting the graphics settings just insane level way above realistic. Tech Savvy players will figure this out after some serious frustration but majority of player base.... no not tech savvy how many run about like this. Add on the other horrid setting the game defaults too with no explanations at all....

Yup mouse controls... the settings on mouse for default ARE INSANE I couldn't drink enough coffee/mount dew/red bulls to really use the controls the game comes with its like a default 1 inch mouse movement = 1 light year... Maybe the golden child could pull this but most people are going to go insane.

Really sad too cuz last 2 alone jsut kill Lights and mediums. Fixing those settings makes lights and mediums immensely more fun to play to everyone I have talked through the changes. Oh well in mean time and for long time to come expect to see teams of LURMS and lights be very under represented.

[Telmasa]

Abivard, on 11 November 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

I like LRM's because I enjoy variety and complexity in my games.

The LRM haters simply can not or will not learn to play, nor can they really seem to handle more than a couple things at a time.
I strongly feel that perhaps a game like Pong might be far more to your liking, it requires little thought, has only a couple rules and you only have to move up or down with your controller.

Ok it does require a certain amount of eye hand coordination so that puts it out of reach of at least half the LRM QQ crowd.

Man it really must suck being a loser that can't avoid the worst most nerfed weapon system in the game.

Much as I kind-of agree with your overall sentiment, all the insults and degrading comments about people who have a grudge against LRMs really does not help you sell your point, nor does it particularly have a place during a discussion.

[kazlaton]

I play lrm boats for the fun of it. I love my dakka, but sometimes you just need something different. And as others said, being good at lrms isn't as simple as the haters like to think it is.

Tell you a story... I used to hate lrms too. Thought there was a problem with them, thought they were OP, thought they needed a nerf. So I started playing one. And after a while, I got better at the game. I learned how to use, and more importantly, how to counter them. I don't even bother with AMS anymore, and I rarely die to lrms.

So I say to all the lrm haters out there - try it. Take the time to learn how they work, and you just might learn how to deal with them when you are on the other side of the launch tube.

[Cion]

1- variety from my other mechs
2- being a good LRM support means you need to use a different set of skills.

Explained : those who complain that lurmz take no skill are usually either direct fire support and are referring to the skill known as accurately aiming, OR brawlers that are referring to their brawling skills like accurate torso twisting, Good aim to open components, etc.

Lurming obviously does not use these skills. Good Lurming uses intense situational awareness of your team, engagements, enemy positioning, ever present tactical readouts, identifying roles on the enemy, etc.

A good lurmer does not depend on friendly locks. A good lurmer can quickly scan the battlefield and judge whether to lurm the brawling mech or the dual gauss at a distance. A good lurmer can quickly make tactical readouts and safely reposition to lurm enemies that are in cover. A good lurmer can save a friendly that's almost dead by Lurming the mech that's gonna get the final blow.

A good lurmer does not let friendlies die without taking damage himself first.

I enjoy it every once in a while, although I prefer brawlers.

*I basically NEVER die to lurmz because, from what I've seen, most people don't know how to fully use them*

I die more from ACs and Gauss shots

Good luck!

[Abivard]

Telmasa, on 11 November 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

Much as I kind-of agree with your overall sentiment, all the insults and degrading comments about people who have a grudge against LRMs really does not help you sell your point, nor does it particularly have a place during a discussion.

Not trying to sell my point to them, they can not or will not bother to think or learn or take responsibility for their actions.
Show me a single poster of ANTI-LRM posts who does not insult anyone using LRM's or that may disagree with them.

I post to make fun of them and to expose their lies and hidden agendas.

[nehebkau]

Yes, hiding a the back and firing it some people idea of a good time.... the "I like to shoot stuff without getting shot myself or being in any real danger" attitude. Usually it's about being unsure about your skills or having had some bad experiences with insta-death previously. The worst part is they often believe they are being an asset to the team but usually not. More often then not their in heavy or assault mechs whose armor could be sorely used at the front lines to soak up some damage. Likewise, their LRM spam is usually also hitting friendly targets who are brawling at the front lines making them a double-loser for the team.

IMHO, LRM lock times for targets where the LRM boat doesn't have LOS should be 3 times (at least) slower or gain no benefit from artemis or bap..

In pugs, the more LRM boats in heavy or higher mechs I have on my team, the more likely we are to lose badly.


(btw I don't think I've died to enemy LRMs recently -- but I have died to friendly LRMs)

Edited by nehebkau, 11 November 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[El Bandito]

Zelthar the mecha wizard, on 11 November 2014 - 03:47 PM, said:

I'm just looking to ask some of you fine(possibly good looking) people who have boated LRMs exactly what the appeal of such a play style is? Personally, I can count on one hand the amount times I've used LRMs.

Why do I boat LRMs? I can give you three reasons.

1. I love missiles. I love them to death--of my enemies. Nothing more enjoyable than filling the sky with missiles and 5 seconds later having the screen fill up with:

"Component Destroyed"
"Component Destroyed"
"Component Destroyed"
"Component Destroyed"
"Most Damage Kill"
"Killing Blow"



2. “The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting.”--Sun Tzu The Art of War. That's why the class I enjoy playing the most in Team Fortress 2 is the Spy. If I can kill you without ever having to meet you face to face, then I would.

3. I love to attack the enemy from angles where he is unable to hit back. That's why the class I have the highest KDR in Team Fortress 2 is the Demoman. Go bawl like a baby all ye want, cause I'll be laughing, a lot.

So... ...T'all you fine dandies so proud, so ****-sure. Prancin' aboot with your heads full of eyeballs! Come and get me I say! I'll be waiting on ya with a whiff of the 'ol brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable....with an unhappy bloody end! Oh, and they're going to have to glue you back together....in hell!

Edited by El Bandito, 12 November 2014 - 01:44 AM.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

I have lurm boats, dakka boats, laser boats and guasszilla's. Lurm boats require the most investment for the smallest returns. And with constant nerfs and matches where ECM stacking shuts you out for useless junk.

The big reason to have them. is

1 not fast enough to be in fight but still take part
2 can stack firepower without coring out peoples backs
3 does help keep the other sides head down
4 Well this is the big one. All the louts on the forums hate them and are doing their very best to destroy them. So I try to run them REAL good so as to be that bitter thorn to people who only want to play one, and only one way, all the way to the end.