20 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

As we all know I am a light enthusiast and Jenner in particular however I am curious about this match up in the quirk pass and interested to get ideas. The only difference between these two mechs is 1 missile hardpoint in the center torso.

The D got slight buff to missile range of 5% and SRM range of 5%. The K got Med Pulse laser heat generation of -7.5%, laser heat generation of -7.5%, Energy cool down of -7.5% and Med Pulse Laser cool down of -7.5%

Basically the same mech, with significantly different quirk bonuses.

So my question is, would we like to see some of that energy love going to the D that the K got?

Even with these quirks I have not seen any difference in the amount of these two mechs after the patch as to prior the patch.

Just curious is all.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The D is the objectively better variant. Literally the only reason to use a K instead of a D, especially after the module pass that killed the K's advantage in module slots, is the quirks.

[Monkey Lover]

I run the K with a narc but now that lrms are kind of dead im not sure how much more im going to do it. I been running into way to many teams without any lrms to make it worth dropping 50% of weapons.

[Darian DelFord]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 11 November 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

The D is the objectively better variant. Literally the only reason to use a K instead of a D, especially after the module pass that killed the K's advantage in module slots, is the quirks.

I can agree with that, but if the D is a better variant it is not by much by any means, I am only seen a handful if any of both variants since the quirk pass

[TercieI]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 11 November 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

The D is the objectively better variant. Literally the only reason to use a K instead of a D, especially after the module pass that killed the K's advantage in module slots, is the quirks.

The D WAS the objectively better variant. That is not true now. There's a required change in thinking due to the fact that quirks aren't a little thing. Rather, they're the defining thing. They made the K really good (more DPS and better pinpoint than the F, though less alpha (24v30) and range (224v297) and did almost nothing for the D (SRM 4 range is almost pointless) which is now clearly the weakest of the four Jenners.

Darian DelFord, on 12 November 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

I can agree with that, but if the D is a better variant it is not by much by any means, I am only seen a handful if any of both variants since the quirk pass

I think more light pilots are messing with FS9-A&H, but I straight prefer my K to my F now, at least for public queues.

Edited by Terciel1976, 12 November 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[Mechteric]

The SRM range quirks are pretty useless due to the SRM spread, I would have preferred they do just about anything else such as cooldown or heat based quirk instead.

[Pjwned]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 11 November 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

The D is the objectively better variant. Literally the only reason to use a K instead of a D, especially after the module pass that killed the K's advantage in module slots, is the quirks.

The difference between the 2 mechs (aside from quirks) is pretty minor now, so to act like the JR7-D is just so much better seems a little strange when the only difference is 1 missile hardpoint.

The lone quirk on the JR7-D barely does anything, meanwhile even if you don't even use medium pulse lasers the JR7-K has quirks that are actually kind of nice now, and as a result I'm probably going to just use the JR7-K instead now. That's fine and all because the JR7-K had basically no purpose before, but now it's the JR7-D that doesn't have very much purpose so it kind of just flipped the table around.

Because the SRM range quirk does so little there's almost no reason to use the JR7-D now unless you want 2 SRM4 launchers, which I'm not saying is a bad build, but if you don't do that then why use the JR7-D now?

If the JR7-D saw a bigger range quirk for its SRMs (or something along those lines) then I would like it more and see more general use for both mechs. It could definitely be a lot worse though; I'm not saying it's the end of the world but I would like to see the JR7-D looked at again maybe.

Edited by Pjwned, 12 November 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

Pjwned, on 12 November 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

The difference between the 2 mechs (aside from quirks) is pretty minor now, so to act like the JR7-D is just so much better seems a little strange when the only difference is 1 missile hardpoint.

The lone quirk on the JR7-D barely does anything, meanwhile even if you don't even use medium pulse lasers the JR7-K has quirks that are actually kind of nice now, and as a result I'm probably going to just use the JR7-K instead now. That's fine and all because the JR7-K had basically no purpose before, but now it's the JR7-D that doesn't have very much purpose so it kind of just flipped the table around.

Because the SRM range quirk does so little there's almost no reason to use the JR7-D now unless you want 2 SRM4 launchers, which I'm not saying is a bad build, but if you don't do that then why use the JR7-D now?

If the JR7-D saw a bigger range quirk for its SRMs (or something along those lines) then I would like it more and see more general use for both mechs. It could definitely be a lot worse though; I'm not saying it's the end of the world but I would like to see the JR7-D looked at again maybe.

I have to give the edge to the Know just from the numbers. I have not played a K since they were first introduced, same with the D, i am an F kinda guy. But to me the K outclasses the D now. Even wtih 2 SRM 4's the D will have heat problems. Range quirks on SRMS are stupid due to the spread.

[Tarogato]

Agreed: SRM range quirks really do absolutely nothing.

And I want the K's module slot back. I used it as my narc jenner until they took the slot away and then I sold it.

[Captain Stiffy]

Monkey Lover, on 11 November 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

I run the K with a narc but now that lrms are kind of dead im not sure how much more im going to do it. I been running into way to many teams without any lrms to make it worth dropping 50% of weapons.

What is going on here? Some people post that LRM's are practically unused while others can't seem to play a match that isn't a storm of LRMS so what gives?

[FireDog]

Jenner K is hands down the better Jenner of the two. Running cool with 4ML + SRM4/6 or Narc beats a hotter running D with duel launcher SRM4/Streak2s/narc combos. The only reason to use my Founder's Jenner D is the CBill bonus. My poor Sara D is gathering dust on the bench. Maybe if PGI revisits the D quirks they would get used again.

BTW, Speaking of the Sara D, any possibility of giving it some quirks of its own? Something different like let's say, more mech slots like the K use to have? It would be a fun little mech to play with.... dress it up for any occasion just like a barbie doll! :-)

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Pjwned, on 12 November 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

The difference between the 2 mechs (aside from quirks) is pretty minor now, so to act like the JR7-D is just so much better seems a little strange when the only difference is 1 missile hardpoint.

The lone quirk on the JR7-D barely does anything, meanwhile even if you don't even use medium pulse lasers the JR7-K has quirks that are actually kind of nice now, and as a result I'm probably going to just use the JR7-K instead now. That's fine and all because the JR7-K had basically no purpose before, but now it's the JR7-D that doesn't have very much purpose so it kind of just flipped the table around.

Because the SRM range quirk does so little there's almost no reason to use the JR7-D now unless you want 2 SRM4 launchers, which I'm not saying is a bad build, but if you don't do that then why use the JR7-D now?

If the JR7-D saw a bigger range quirk for its SRMs (or something along those lines) then I would like it more and see more general use for both mechs. It could definitely be a lot worse though; I'm not saying it's the end of the world but I would like to see the JR7-D looked at again maybe.

To be fair, that's always been the only reason to run a JR7-D, and it's been more than good enough, at least since the SRM fixes all went live. 2 SRM4s is a huge punch for something running 150+ kph. The K has never been able to match it, and it fails compared to the F for similar reasons (4 energy v 6 energy).

Quirks for the K specifically make it worth running, but only in a single build. For literally any other build you can make on a K, the D or the F does it as well or better.

[Pjwned]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 12 November 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

To be fair, that's always been the only reason to run a JR7-D, and it's been more than good enough, at least since the SRM fixes all went live. 2 SRM4s is a huge punch for something running 150+ kph. The K has never been able to match it, and it fails compared to the F for similar reasons (4 energy v 6 energy).

Quirks for the K specifically make it worth running, but only in a single build. For literally any other build you can make on a K, the D or the F does it as well or better.

Even if you don't use medium pulse lasers on the JR7-K, 7.5% heat reduction and 7.5% cooldown reduction on energy weapons is better than a measly 10% range quirk on SRM4 launchers, and if for whatever reason you don't use SRM4 on the JR7-D then it's only 5% which might as well be nothing.

[TercieI]

Pjwned, on 13 November 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

Even if you don't use medium pulse lasers on the JR7-K, 7.5% heat reduction and 7.5% cooldown reduction on energy weapons is better than a measly 10% range quirk on SRM4 launchers, and if for whatever reason you don't use SRM4 on the JR7-D then it's only 5% which might as well be nothing.

Ding ding ding.

The Jenner-D, long the second-best Jenner has been relegated to a distant fourth. Even if you want both missile hard points (streaks or 4s)*, you're going to have a hot-running build that is flat inferior to the best builds on the other three.

*anything that doesn't use both is unquestionably better run on the K

Edited by Terciel1976, 13 November 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[DEMAX51]

The range quirk on the -D is just plain bad. You can't run Artemis on it, unless you're only using one SRM, so hitting anything reliably at max range is almost impossible.

The -D has always had heat issues, though. If it were like 5% less heat gen on SRMs and 5% less heat gen on SRM4s that would help a lot.

FireDog, on 12 November 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

BTW, Speaking of the Sara D, any possibility of giving it some quirks of its own? Something different like let's say, more mech slots like the K use to have? It would be a fun little mech to play with.... dress it up for any occasion just like a barbie doll! :-)

That would be really cool, actually. Maybe give it some Streak quirks instead of SRM4, as, I believe, that is what Sara used to "get 'em good"

[TercieI]

DEMAX51, on 13 November 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

The range quirk on the -D is just plain bad. You can't run Artemis on it, unless you're only using one SRM, so hitting anything reliably at max range is almost impossible.

The -D has always had heat issues, though. If it were like 5% less heat gen on SRMs and 5% less heat gen on SRM4s that would help a lot.



That would be really cool, actually. Maybe give it some Streak quirks instead of SRM4, as, I believe, that is what Sara used to "get 'em good"

I'd give it the same quirks the K got (or maybe half that value) but for ML. Both unique, both have a purpose then.

[DEMAX51]

Terciel1976, on 13 November 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'd give it the same quirks the K got (or maybe half that value) but for ML. Both unique, both have a purpose then.

That'd work too. I've just always thought of the 2 missile slots as the defining aspect of the -D, hence the SRM4 suggestions.

I was also a little surprised by the -K's quirks. I really thought they'd give it something to effect NARC, like missile projectile speed or something.

[TercieI]

DEMAX51, on 13 November 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

That'd work too. I've just always thought of the 2 missile slots as the defining aspect of the -D, hence the SRM4 suggestions.

I was also a little surprised by the -K's quirks. I really thought they'd give it something to effect NARC, like missile projectile speed or something.

I'm so glad they didn't. Not only do I it (as I believe you know... ), but the 4MPL build actually can have a competitive place, where NARC is pretty much not going to be useful competitively.

I do see your point about the -D's missile slots, but I'm struggling to come up with a missile quirk that would put it on the level with the other three, which I think ML quirks could do easily.

Edited by Terciel1976, 13 November 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[Josef Nader]

Captain Stiffy, on 12 November 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

What is going on here? Some people post that LRM's are practically unused while others can't seem to play a match that isn't a storm of LRMS so what gives?

LRMs are almost entirely inconsequential to good players unless used exceptionally well. Bad players stand in the open and try to fight it out, then get mad when they dissolve under a hail of indirect fire, completely ignoring the direct fire that did the bulk of the damage and shaking their fists ineptly at LRM boats.

I'm not going to say I haven't died to LRMs in ages, because I do die to LRMs. Usually when I make a mistake and get caught in the open in a chassis too slow to make it to the next spot of cover, or when I get flushed out of cover by the enemy team and their fire support tears me apart. Getting inordinatly mad that I couldn't shoot back at the LRM boat is largely irrelevant, as I would have died anyway.

[DEMAX51]

Terciel1976, on 13 November 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

I'm so glad they didn't. Not only do I it (I believe you know... ),

Indeed. I've got some payback that needs givin'

Quote

but the 4MPL build actually can have a competitive place, where NARC is pretty much not going to be useful competitively.

That is a very good point, although - honestly - I don't think the -K will be that great for comp drops. The DPS is awesome, and the -K is now the best Jenner for light v light fights, but in the heat of an actual brawl the Jenner's CT, in general, is just too big. The Firestarter A and H are, I think, going to be the most heavily used Lights in comp drops unless something changes.

Quote

I do see your point about the -D's missile slots, but I'm struggling to come up with a missile quirk that would put it on the level with the other three, which I think ML quirks could do easily.

Yeah, it is tricky. I still think missile heat reduction could help, though. You'd be able to fire everything more often, at least.

Edited by DEMAX51, 13 November 2014 - 11:30 AM.