144 replies to this topic

[HavocRazr30]

zax, on 25 June 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

All it means is that all weapons will do the same damage on all mechs. There will not be a tiered system where an assault's medium laser does 4x more damage than a light's medium laser.

Unless the assault pilot is vastly outclassed skill-wise, the assault will always win.

That is definitely not true at all! if weapons have the same damage on any chassis then a skilled pilot can take down a more heavily armored assault. yes you have to be quick and think quick to boot but a good pilot will stay in the rear arc and bash in the rear armor. Light mech speed is used for flanking and getting around others.... I am a lighter mech pilot for that reason of being agile and a steady gunner. And just because an assault mech has a big weapon doesnt mean it can hit worth a darn with being slower

[Voyager I]

Akaryu, on 25 June 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

assault mech players seem to think its easy hitting a target with superior mobility and is a small target where as you are a lumbering goliath that hitting something vital on you for a light mech is about as easy as pointing to the ocean on a map of the world.

Maybe you haven't played too many shooters, but lining up shots on light mechs is only difficult if measured against combat between two assaults, wherein you practically can't not hit.

Quote

the only light mech pilots that get hit by assault mech weapons are bad light mech pilots that cant hit the legs on an atlas and think strafing is the only tactic when fighting.

I will agree with this part. Any scout pilot that gets within firing range of an Atlas with functional weapons systems is not very good.

HavocRazr30, on 25 June 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

That is definitely not true at all! if weapons have the same damage on any chassis then a skilled pilot can take down a more heavily armored assault. yes you have to be quick and think quick to boot but a good pilot will stay in the rear arc and bash in the rear armor. Light mech speed is used for flanking and getting around others.... I am a lighter mech pilot for that reason of being agile and a steady gunner. And just because an assault mech has a big weapon doesnt mean it can hit worth a darn with being slower

While it's true that weapons do the same amount of damage regardless of the chassis you're mounting them on, what you aren't considering is that larger mechs carry many, many more of them. An Atlas's weapons loadout weighs as much as an entire medium mech.

Edited by Voyager I, 25 June 2012 - 05:41 PM.

[DarkElf]

xNightAngelx, on 25 June 2012 - 05:24 PM, said:

you have to kee in mind a machine gun on a mech is alot bigger than a normal machine gun, the huge size of the rounds is why it's able to do damage.

It's bigger but not that big. It's still 1 ton only. In real life there are plenty tank gun bigger than that, but still if they can't pen then they can't do any damage.

On defense of MWO, Mech is cooler than tank.

[HavocRazr30]

Gravaar, on 25 June 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

I wonder if a heavy/assault could use the DoT of the lasers to stop a light from doing the circle of death,
Just fire in front of the light and let it run into the beams of the lasers ,THEN track it
Be like how machine gunners kill moving targets

That makes sense of course but an assault should only be able to turn its torso at a certain speed. Lights have to be fast and they will have a faster torso turn speed, or should in any case. MW4 does that pretty well.

[Solis Obscuri]

I'm really looking forward to the first "Assault Atlas vs. scout jenner. I CANT BELIEVE" ragethread once this game goes live...

[Milax]

I suppose that we could take it a step further and consider cockpit kills...thru weapons and/or landing on top of the mech's cockpit with enough speed and height...a lighter mech could take out a heavier one.

Edited by Milax, 25 June 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[Cole Christensen]

This just in: MWO will have similar, tried-and-true game mechanics that existed in almost all previous MW titles. More at 11.

[Calisrue]

I think there will be more survivability for a jenner going for a Large Laser or LRM build and jump sniping the atlas from afar repeatedly. Less damage and slower, and will still have to be careful not to allow time for the Atlas to LRM lock you ... and the atlas could always skeet shoot you if it goes for a gauss that i think alot of atlas pilots will ... but if you do it from the sides and stay unpredictable you might have a chance. Also not sure if they will let a jenner put an ECM package in on this game (it wasn't one of the better electronic warfare platforms in other games) but it sounds like they might not be as restrictive with those kinds of modules in this game.

[Glythe]

That's a really good idea Calisrue as far as your tactics go but look at what Jenner models are canon....

There is a model with only one Large laser but I don't think you could begin to fit a LRM a Jenner!

I honestly don't see a reason to keep an Autocannon 20 over the Gauss rifle (unless the rifle is highly susceptible to damage and easy destruction) on the Atlas as the founder version should easily cover the cost difference and the range versatility should vastly improve performance as well as more ammunition per weight.

Edited by Glythe, 25 June 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[trycksh0t]

Glythe, on 25 June 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

That's a really good idea Calisrue as far as your tactics go but look at what Jenner models are canon....

There is a model with only one Large laser but I don't think you could begin to fit a LRM a Jenner!

I honestly don't see a reason to keep an Autocannon 20 over the Gauss rifle (unless the rifle is highly susceptible to damage and easy destruction).

Jenner - Remove SRM-4, replace with LRM-5. Remove SRM-4 and 3 medium lasers, replace with LRM-10 (Hello psychotically fast Valkyrie). Remove SRM-4 and 2 Medium Lasers, add Large Laser to an arm, or drop all the Mediums, reduce the SRM-4 to an SRM-2 and slap the Large Laser in an arm.

Edited by trycksh0t, 25 June 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[Voyager I]

Just get a Trebuchet. 85 k/h with twin LRM-15's and some Medium Lasers for backup.

[Teralitha]

Of course this isnt a new thing.... Its old.... ancient in fact. A light mech could always kill an assault mech in previous mechwarrior games, I should know, I did it all the time. Its not like MWO is doing something that wasnt done before. In 8 vs 8 league team play in MW4 I used light mechs for scouts all the time, so why MWO says that light mechs were never useful in previous mechwarrior games is just silly. There were a few light chassis that were pretty useless I will say(flea, owens), but quite a few were very deadly. I remember 2 such light mechs were so deadly in MW4 they had to be nerfed. MWo.... u guys are being ridiculous with this whole... 'we want to make light mechs useful' thing.

Edited by Teralitha, 25 June 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[Calisrue]

trycksh0t, on 25 June 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Jenner - Remove SRM-4, replace with LRM-5. Remove SRM-4 and 3 medium lasers, replace with LRM-10 (Hello psychotically fast Valkyrie). Remove SRM-4 and 2 Medium Lasers, add Large Laser to an arm, or drop all the Mediums, reduce the SRM-4 to an SRM-2 and slap the Large Laser in an arm.

TY tryckshot - i seem to remember that its even possible if you strip enough armor to fit an LRM 5 and a Lg laser - not that i would strip ANY armor off a Jenner if i have to pay repair bills....

[light487]

Yup. there's not really a reason to be concerned... it's going to be a rare event that a light will take down a heavy by themselves.. maybe there will be some kind of arena matches at some point, like in MW:LL where this will happen more often but even then you'd have to be an ace light/med to have a chance. It's certainly not going to be happening so much that it cripples the game or makes playing a heavy/assault mech a waste of time.

Just like with the Tier 10's in WoT.. you can't expect to be invincible.. but you can't expect to win battles with a tier 1 tank.. but at least with this game you'll be able to be useful and help your team cause damage to your enemy rather than having every single shot bounce off. In WoT that's fine because it's World War Two.. that's how things work in a game like that.. but in MWO, it's different.

[Argon3]

Yes lights with good Pilots can take down Assualt mechs

But I can squish a Light much faster than he can hurt my assualt

I used a Raven to take down a Kodiac solo in MW3 or 4 a long time ago
It was a free for all and I turned my radar off
He never knew I was closing till I started shooting him

Its why I did not run assaults in FFA

[Adrian Carino]

You know what though? Even IF a light mech can take down an Assault Mech, if given half the chance, an Assault Mech will absolutely obliterate a light mech. Try to dance toe to toe with say a Mauler and a Raven. The Mauler will win every time. Now of if the Raven is on the move, keeping the Mauler off balance and using every dirty trick possible to win, the Raven will pull through every time. Moral of the story? Light Mechs need to constantly keep moving or else face obliteration.

[Mitchpate]

Teralitha, on 25 June 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Of course this isnt a new thing.... Its old.... ancient in fact. A light mech could always kill an assault mech in previous mechwarrior games, I should know, I did it all the time. Its not like MWO is doing something that wasnt done before. In 8 vs 8 league team play in MW4 I used light mechs for scouts all the time, so why MWO says that light mechs were never useful in previous mechwarrior games is just silly. There were a few light chassis that were pretty useless I will say(flea, owens), but quite a few were very deadly. I remember 2 such light mechs were so deadly in MW4 they had to be nerfed. MWo.... u guys are being ridiculous with this whole... 'we want to make light mechs useful' thing.

In MW4 it was very common to see 2 light or mediums destroy or cripple an 8 man team of heavies and assaults. Anyone who didn't see it in previous mechwarrior games either didn't play competitively or just wasn't paying attention. In fact, it's still happening in MW4. A week or so ago a lone light killed 4 assaults in an NBT match.

That being said, the light pilot has to be extremely skilled and the assaults have to be poorly piloted, significantly outranged, or very badly damaged. Anyone expecting this sort of thing to be a common occurance is kidding themselves. You may get a few vollies into the Atlas' back but when he finally gets a bead on you, and unless the pilot's a complete scrub he's going to, it's all over but the crying.

Edited by Mitchpate, 25 June 2012 - 06:41 PM.

[Calisrue]

Argon3, on 25 June 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Yes lights with good Pilots can take down Assualt mechs

But I can squish a Light much faster than he can hurt my assualt

I used a Raven to take down a Kodiac solo in MW3 or 4 a long time ago
It was a free for all and I turned my radar off
He never knew I was closing till I started shooting him

Its why I did not run assaults in FFA

anyone know if they confirmed ability to shutdown active radar in this game like in others?

[KageRyuu]

SinnerX, on 25 June 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I'll be honest, this is common sense to anyone who hasn't played WoT. I know I haven't, and hearing people talk about how low level(aka new player starting tanks) can't even damage high level tanks begs a big "***?" from me. That sounds like just plain horrible game design, imo, and I don't know why everyone assumes MWO will copy it. None of the past MW games used this broken mechanic, as far as I can remember.

To be fair the likelihood of people asking those kinds of questions after a ten year gap in the franchise are understandable when the biggest and most similar game (which is a stretch in and of itself) most people have at least heard of has a fairly realistic mechanic where smaller cannons from earlier tiers won't be able to penetrate thicker armor on larger tanks from later tiers. Still, the fact that a 3rd tier tank can find itself fighting tanks 5 tiers above it is kind of broken when they have little to no chance of penetrating the enemy's armor.

Thank Kerensky that BattleTech/MechWarrior does not cater to the ultra realistic gamers out there.

Calisrue, on 25 June 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

anyone know if they confirmed ability to shutdown active radar in this game like in others?

And no, there's been no confirmation on separate active/passive radar modes that I remember anyway. Though if you power your mech down clearly it's going to be more difficult to find using radar, however since there were no active/passive radar modes on the TT I very much doubt they'll include it even if it's been present in past games. In fact the entire Radar concept is a fabrication of the Video Games as opposed to the TT.

Edited by KageRyuu, 25 June 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Well yeah, the best way for a light mech to take on an Assault mech is while he's busy shooting at your friend the Heavy mech. Given a choice of burning down a Cataphract or a Jenner, I think an Atlas pilot will usually choose to shoot at the Cataphract, since it's easier to hit and has larger guns. That gives the jenner some precious time to plug away at the Atlas.

Solo... that better be ONE good jenner pilot, johnny on the spot with the jump jets and laser aim!