17 replies to this topic

[dJellyfish]

Russ,

First off, thank you. It's obvious that PGI is listening and reacting with thoughtfulness, and you are really building up equity in the community. Please keep this momentum going!

Now, pretty much everyone here will agree that Rewards 2.0 has been a BIG step in the right direction. Role warfare is more present than ever, teams are playing more like a team, and players are more frequently rewarded more accurately for their contributions in-game. However, a lot of people feel that the payouts (post TAG-exploit removal) have gotten a bit anemic. Yes, some players have gotten rewards as high as 300k-400k, but payouts like that are an exception... and when they happen it certainly doesn't represent the payouts of the other 23 players in the match. Yes, the player who does 10 damage and gets cored 90 seconds into the match probably doesn't deserve more than 40k, but that shouldn't be the case for players who are contributing in valuable ways which currently aren't being recognized.

Additional rewards can fix this, and will also encourage even better piloting, teamwork, and role diversity. I'm not certain what data MWO's telemetry makes available, but given the complexity in some of the existing rewards I imagine there's a lot of potential waiting to be tapped. I'm sure you already have discussions going on about additional rewards internally within PGI, but based on what I've experienced first-hand and what's been said on the forums, I would suggest the following additional rewards (sooner rather than later):


Tanking:
We should reward players for taking damage. Not only will it soften the blow of being stomped, it naturally encourages players to spread damage (a tactic which many still consider an advanced piloting skill). Given armor values the potential earnings would scale with each class, most especially allowing Assaults (who aren't eligible/suited for many of the 2.0 bonuses) to walk away with a needed boost to earnings.

Perhaps reward it once a threshold is reached within some limited time window (e.g. 30 points of damage), and increase it as continued damage is taken. Probably would want to make it so ammo/gauss explosions and FF don't count towards the tally so that it isn't exploited.


Focused Fire:
We should reward players for focusing fire. It was an essential tactic in TT and it's hyper effective in MWO. For those worried about lore, perhaps in Community Warfare we don't reward clans for this and instead give them an additional Zellbrigen reward on solo kills (but that's for a different discussion).

When 3 [maybe 2] or more players are firing at the same target within "x" time window, they are focusing fire. Put a "per target" cooldown on the reward so that it isn't exploited by hopping from target to target and then back again.


Diversion:
This might be a little tough to measure accurately, but I would really like to see it be rewarded as it is a thankless tactic. Basically, when enemy attention is actively on teammates within enemy LOS and a player then moves into a position where the attention becomes redirected at themselves, that person has successfully created a diversion.

Perhaps it could be tracked through a combination of rewards in a time window: flanking, tanking, and the target of focused fire? I don't know, but I would love to see it happen.




I could provide more ideas, but this has already turned into a wall of text. So... thoughts?

[keith]

need something for ecm buuble too if it doesn't go away. it is such a thankless task, but 1 that has to be done. and u get nothing out of it.

[dJellyfish]

Yes! We totally need a running ECM disrupt bubble reward, increased by individuals covered. Like a mix of Lance Formation + UAV bonus, but with ECM in disrupt.

[MadPanda]

"Focused fire" bonus is called "Savior" in mwo.

[Torgun]

MadPanda, on 12 November 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

"Focused fire" bonus is called "Savior" in mwo.

The difference is it has to be a kill, heavily damaging something with focus fire gives you nothing.

[MadPanda]

Torgun, on 12 November 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

The difference is it has to be a kill, heavily damaging something with focus fire gives you nothing.

Nor should it. You already get cbills for damage done. I'm all for increasing cbill gain, but your ideas are not the best.

[Torgun]

MadPanda, on 12 November 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Nor should it. You already get cbills for damage done. I'm all for increasing cbill gain, but your ideas are not the best.

It's not my idea, I'm just pointing out Savior kill and the suggested focus fire is not the same thing.

[Blakkstar]

Tanking: Rewarding players just for taking damage is silly and rewards bad play. I could support a Tanking award for absorbing a damage threshold while in proximity to a damaged lighter friendly mech, though.

Focus fire: already rewarded through Lance in Formation and Savior Kill

Diversion: already rewarded through Flanking and Hit & Run

ECM: lights should get a bonus for every mech under the ECM umbrella at say 10 second intervals. Since the win reward is fairly small and the benefit to the team is great, lights should get an incentive to play this role. It's the expectation, but a thankless task right now.

[orcrist86]

Would like to see a guardian angel reward for your ams taking down missiles aimed at a friendly

[Angel of Annihilation]

MadPanda, on 12 November 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Nor should it. You already get cbills for damage done. I'm all for increasing cbill gain, but your ideas are not the best.

Except for the fact too much gets lost if you don't manage to get the kill shot. I mean for example, you get 10k for a solo kill + 5k for a most damage done + 4k for killing blow. That is 19k potentially. However that goes down to 8.5k even if you manage to do 99% of the damage required to kill the enemy mech only to have it KSed from you at the last minute. That is a pretty big gap for an action you did 99% of the work for.

Edit: I do think that there needs to be some rewards added especially things to replace rewards like Flanking, at least for slow assaults. Assaults for example should get like a double bonus reward for damage done instead of flanking because their entire purpose is to be in the front lines of battle putting out massive damage and aren't going to get many opportunities to flank. Not having these opportunities leads to Assaults not getting rewarded evenly as compared to lights for example.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 12 November 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[dJellyfish]

MadPanda, on 12 November 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Nor should it. You already get cbills for damage done. I'm all for increasing cbill gain, but your ideas are not the best.

Fair enough. My ideas certainly aren't the only ones... Please contribute and provide better ones!

[Mawai]

keith, on 12 November 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

need something for ecm buuble too if it doesn't go away. it is such a thankless task, but 1 that has to be done. and u get nothing out of it.

I think the idea is that you get the "protected light" award if you stick around and cover your team with ECM. Whether that reward needs to be increased is another discussion. I am not sure adding an ECM specific one is the best choice since the DDC will then receive the bonus AND light mechs with ECM will receive a double bonus in terms of both "protected light" and ECM.

In general, I think light mechs that stay with the group to provide defense and chase off opposing light/mediums need to have a bit more reward since they are typically not getting the flanking and "hit and run" rewards at the same time.

[keith]

Mawai, on 12 November 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

I think the idea is that you get the "protected light" award if you stick around and cover your team with ECM. Whether that reward needs to be increased is another discussion. I am not sure adding an ECM specific one is the best choice since the DDC will then receive the bonus AND light mechs with ECM will receive a double bonus in terms of both "protected light" and ECM.

In general, I think light mechs that stay with the group to provide defense and chase off opposing light/mediums need to have a bit more reward since they are typically not getting the flanking and "hit and run" rewards at the same time.

thats what i means. u get what 360 cbills ever 8 sec. compared 3500 cbills every 10 sec if u are doing it right. 10X the amount if u are on the attack, plus the xp u get. they need a ecm specific 1 that gives a bonus, per mech covered.

[MadPanda]

dJellyfish, on 12 November 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Fair enough. My ideas certainly aren't the only ones... Please contribute and provide better ones!

I don't want new circus tricks into the game. Simply increase rewards for existing actions.

[SgtExo]

A tanking reward would be about how well you were able to spread out damage, and if you die, how much damage the opposition needed to inflict before killing you. I would say start at around 70-60% before starting to give rewards.

So if you get headshooted or get an XL destroyed from the back of a side torso, you would not get a bonus or one not as big as if you had a STD and died with not sides and one leg gone with all red leg and core. This would also give an incentive for people how have lost all weapons to still try and help the team.

Talking about mechs that have lost all weapons and seeing as there will be an ejection option in CW, they should reward players to keep their MechWarrior "alive" and bail out in a ruined mech. Maybe make this one just an XP bonuse since they lived too fight another day.

[Captain Stiffy]

dJellyfish, on 12 November 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

...

Lower rewards help role-warfare? Are you kidding? It's just a different exploit now!

[dJellyfish]

Captain Stiffy, on 12 November 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

Lower rewards help role-warfare? Are you kidding? It's just a different exploit now!

At no point did I intend to suggest that "lower rewards help role-warfare"... I'm not even sure how you got that from my post. Am I that wrong in thinking things have improved at all with regards to teamwork and roles? Honest question.

[Captain Stiffy]

dJellyfish, on 12 November 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

At no point did I intend to suggest that "lower rewards help role-warfare"... I'm not even sure how you got that from my post. Am I that wrong in thinking things have improved at all with regards to teamwork and roles? Honest question.

Well I should have quoted it but I was talking about was "Now, pretty much everyone here will agree that Rewards 2.0 has been a BIG step in the right direction. Role warfare is more present than ever". Which I disagree with.

I think that the new rewards system alienates those who want to blow up stompy robots and rewards those who want to find whatever gives them the highest bonus and exploit it.