64 replies to this topic

[JP Josh]

oh please if i was a dev your ammo would be able to cook and explode if you reached 75% heat capacity..... also i would have pilot dmg in this game.

so ya you used all you jump jet goin up but you didn't feather the landing so your pilot just broke his back.

take 4 ac 20's in less than a two second span? you fall down now.


ect

also flame thrower would be the nightmare it was in table top if used right.


#yes i play table top why do you ask?

[R Razor]

I agree that the penalties aren't where they should be, you should start seeing heat effects well before 100%, which is why I say the game needs worse overheating penalties not easier ones.

LRM lock should take longer, cross hair should flicker or die depending on heat level and ammunition should have a chance of cooking off above a certain level.

Folks that jab the "o" key constantly deserve to die from heat penalties, maybe once they do a few dozen times they'll L2P.

[Kaspirikay]

I never Override, even before the change. Better to be alive and mobile than dead and hot.

[slide]

I agree that the penalties for over heating aren't harsh enough as well.

Being able to ride the red line at 90+% heat is a skill that many have mastered but it should be something you have to pay for. As suggested, speed penalties, hud degradation, ammo cooking off should all be consequences of pushing to hard to long. If we still had repair and rearm I would suggest a repair cost should be involved as well.

TTK is to short and alpha firing to prolific, proper heat management and appropriate penalties would go a long way to improving TTK and might even help with the dreaded ghost heat.

[DarkonFullPower]

R Razor, on 12 November 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

Except in 1.5 years of playing this game I've never had my head explode from overheating, hyperbole much?

And out of my aprox 2 years, overheat head popping happens about 10% of the time, within 1-2 seconds of override.
Underbole much?

I think it's is in a perfect place as is. You CAN 80-90% of the time get off a extra shot with proper weapon cooldown timings, or twist to the side then manual shut down without major problems. But there is always that risk...

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Overheat damage is pretty mild.

Override damage is brutal.

[R Razor]

DarkonFullPower, on 12 November 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

And out of my aprox 2 years, overheat head popping happens about 10% of the time, within 1-2 seconds of override.
Underbole much?

I think it's is in a perfect place as is. You CAN 80-90% of the time get off a extra shot with proper weapon cooldown timings, or twist to the side then manual shut down without major problems. But there is always that risk...

DarkonFullPower, on 12 November 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

And out of my aprox 2 years, overheat head popping happens about 10% of the time, within 1-2 seconds of override.
Underbole much?

I think it's is in a perfect place as is. You CAN 80-90% of the time get off a extra shot with proper weapon cooldown timings, or twist to the side then manual shut down without major problems. But there is always that risk...

Right, provide proof, because the VAST majority of folks that take damage from overheating do so in the CT, front and rear........and it's no where NEAR to being in a perfect spot unless you consider a COD with robots spot to be perfect.

This game should require thought and tactics as well as twitch skill, and implementing a real heat system would go a LONG way to doing so.

I've died from overheating well more than 100 times and I haven't taken head damage even once, much less 10 times, 10% my butt.

[Mcgral18]

R Razor, on 12 November 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Right, provide proof, because the VAST majority of folks that take damage from overheating do so in the CT, front and rear........and it's no where NEAR to being in a perfect spot unless you consider a COD with robots spot to be perfect.

This game should require thought and tactics as well as twitch skill, and implementing a real heat system would go a LONG way to doing so.

I've died from overheating well more than 100 times and I haven't taken head damage even once, much less 10 times, 10% my butt.

This is override specific; not general overheat.

Override nets you that high damage to random locations.

[Sovery_Simple]

Kaspirikay, on 12 November 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

I never Override, even before the change. Better to be alive and mobile than dead and hot.

Cool beans, so you're not relevant to this conversation. Also: Riding the edge is what can keep you alive, shutdowns are death.

R Razor, on 12 November 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Right, provide proof, because the VAST majority of folks that take damage from overheating do so in the CT, front and rear........and it's no where NEAR to being in a perfect spot unless you consider a COD with robots spot to be perfect.

This game should require thought and tactics as well as twitch skill, and implementing a real heat system would go a LONG way to doing so.

I've died from overheating well more than 100 times and I haven't taken head damage even once, much less 10 times, 10% my butt.

"Vast majority" 'kay.
I've died from override heat damage directly hitting my head. Congrats you're super ******* lucky brah. When I override it's happened enough that it's my number one concern "will it target my head first", and that's not just from recently either, I'm talking as far back to the olllld overheat where it very slowly pinged you for damage.

Now-a-days the heat damage is pretty much instant component loss, on a dice roll. First time I overrode while coming back, I was honestly baffled "what the F- happened" because I went to roughly 103% heat (firing one laser around high nineties) and I instantly lost a full health leg. A few matches later? Instant head loss. Next time I overrode? Instant head loss. It's -really- not that uncommon.

From my experiences I'd place a head roll at being roughly 25% overall, and I -cannot- recall the last time it blew an arm off of my mech. Probably back before ghost heat was implemented.

Having a component instantly explode feels a bit cheesy, it would be nicer if the -entire mech- (not cockpit, consider that area safely shielded for the pilot) would start taking ticks of damage, with the intensity based on how far they've went over the threshold. Just because you've overwhelmed cooling doesn't mean you instantly pop, it just means you're now "too hot" for long term operation. Keep pushing it, and you'll melt yourself. A gradual increase allows you to shut down in the lower scales, and the body parts lost from this are something you can "account" for, by checking what parts are healthy. Additionally, make the damage % based. A direwolf shouldn't be able to along at high heat levels just because he gets "free" massive internal point reserves.

Example would be losing 5% Internals in each location, per second, when over 100% heat, but under say, 120% heat, and Reduced to 1% damage when shut down. At 140% heat, you take 10% a second in heat damage, and 5% while shutdown. Keep doubling the active heat penalty and making the shutdown penalty be the previous tiers active heat penalty percent. Simple, predictable, and turns it into a pilots ability to manage their mech.

(Also: provide your own proof that the overriding majority suffer it in their CT, you're the one making an outlandish claim here, we're pointing out our own observations that something feels screwy.)

[R Razor]

Not we....you....and I have yet to die from overheating except when I've hit the override key trying to get one last shot in before dropping.

Components shouldn't explode, but ammo in those locations should, the entire system is as broken as most every other system PGI has implemented in this game.

That being said, it would be an easy fix that would go a long way to solving a lot of the problems this game has..........ghost heat, TTK and others..........just make people suffer more for riding the heat wave.

The answer isn't to make it easier just because so many people want to be able to run around in your metawolfs and laserboat Crows.

[Bishop Steiner]

Whoops, on 12 November 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Cool beans, so you're not relevant to this conversation. Also: Riding the edge is what can keep you alive, shutdowns are death.



"Vast majority" 'kay.
I've died from override heat damage directly hitting my head. Congrats you're super ******* lucky brah. When I override it's happened enough that it's my number one concern "will it target my head first", and that's not just from recently either, I'm talking as far back to the olllld overheat where it very slowly pinged you for damage.

Now-a-days the heat damage is pretty much instant component loss, on a dice roll. First time I overrode while coming back, I was honestly baffled "what the F- happened" because I went to roughly 103% heat (firing one laser around high nineties) and I instantly lost a full health leg. A few matches later? Instant head loss. Next time I overrode? Instant head loss. It's -really- not that uncommon.

From my experiences I'd place a head roll at being roughly 25% overall, and I -cannot- recall the last time it blew an arm off of my mech. Probably back before ghost heat was implemented.

Having a component instantly explode feels a bit cheesy, it would be nicer if the -entire mech- (not cockpit, consider that area safely shielded for the pilot) would start taking ticks of damage, with the intensity based on how far they've went over the threshold. Just because you've overwhelmed cooling doesn't mean you instantly pop, it just means you're now "too hot" for long term operation. Keep pushing it, and you'll melt yourself. A gradual increase allows you to shut down in the lower scales, and the body parts lost from this are something you can "account" for, by checking what parts are healthy. Additionally, make the damage % based. A direwolf shouldn't be able to along at high heat levels just because he gets "free" massive internal point reserves.

Example would be losing 5% Internals in each location, per second, when over 100% heat, but under say, 120% heat, and Reduced to 1% damage when shut down. At 140% heat, you take 10% a second in heat damage, and 5% while shutdown. Keep doubling the active heat penalty and making the shutdown penalty be the previous tiers active heat penalty percent. Simple, predictable, and turns it into a pilots ability to manage their mech.

(Also: provide your own proof that the overriding majority suffer it in their CT, you're the one making an outlandish claim here, we're pointing out our own observations that something feels screwy.)

oh, you mean like the damage you already take from overheating without shutting down the safety containment?

So basically, you should just be able to disable the safety on your mech and keep firing for the same damage you took if you DIDN'T OVERRIDE YOUR SAFETY MEASURES.

In other words, you are an alphawarrior, and how dare that actually bite you in the butt!

Mind you, I feel the damage should be mostly confined to the torso, except on egregious me meltdown, but whatever.

Point is: Override is meant to be an act of desperation/defiance. HEAT is there to help control TTK. Just because you want to ride the razors edge nonstop and not pay, is no good reason for it.

Maybe it's time to learn heat management?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 November 2014 - 07:15 PM.

[CocoaJin]

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 November 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Maybe it's time to learn heat management?

We're just trying to educate him, since it seems he didn't understand how it worked.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 12 November 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

We're just trying to educate him, since it seems he didn't understand how it worked.

Seems like there is a lot of that on this thread.

[Willard Phule]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this has been around a while now.

It's not just shutting down or hitting the override, it has to do with how much excess heat you've got at the point of shutdown and after. Like, if I overheat from firing 6 CERPPCs on a DW, the moment the computer comes back online, the CT has taken damage. I can overheat by firing 4 CERMLs on other builds but no damage at all.

It's weird because they don't handle it anything like BT does. Still, at least it's something.

In BT, as your heat increases, you lose speed, risk ammunition explosions and all sorts of nastiness. You get to shutdown points before you self destruct at which point you're required to make a specific dice roll or override it. Depending on the build, you might actually want to run hot.

Here, we've got this weird sliding scale thing based on your total number of "1.4" heatsinks. In BT, you don't even hit the heat scale until after you've generated more heat than you have the ability to dissipate. Here, you accrue all heat the moment you fire. The more sinks you have, the higher your scale and the quicker you dissipate heat. It sort of works but since they nerfed the Clan XL engine with heat and speed problems when a side torso is destroyed, perhaps they should institute something like ammo explosions and speed decrease for ALL mechs as they climb the heat scale.

[Krivvan]

I use override to ride the 100% line.

The damage maybe shouldn't go to the head, but I'm fine with it otherwise. Risk versus reward. And in some situations you'd happily accept a 105% override to get a shot in before their Gauss/AC20 cooldown expires.

Edited by Krivvan, 12 November 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[Sovery_Simple]

R Razor, on 12 November 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

Not we....you....and I have yet to die from overheating except when I've hit the override key trying to get one last shot in before dropping.

Components shouldn't explode, but ammo in those locations should, the entire system is as broken as most every other system PGI has implemented in this game.

That being said, it would be an easy fix that would go a long way to solving a lot of the problems this game has..........ghost heat, TTK and others..........just make people suffer more for riding the heat wave.

The answer isn't to make it easier just because so many people want to be able to run around in your metawolfs and laserboat Crows.

Those two mechs will also easily push themselves past the 40% point, though as another poster mentioned, having the damage be more CT centralized is ideal, but PGI seems to want all internals to be affected. Ideally, it would indeed be focused more on the CT region.

(The "we" was me and mcgral. You, the blessed golden child of the O key, have never been so lucky as to be graced with the divine cockpit explosion.)

No complaints with ammo cooking off, it's a tradeoff to consider. You know those things? Making it so someone can take a good with a bad? The current good of firing 1 laser then getting instant death seems a bit skewed, is all.

Bishop Steiner, on 12 November 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

oh, you mean like the damage you already take from overheating without shutting down the safety containment?

So basically, you should just be able to disable the safety on your mech and keep firing for the same damage you took if you DIDN'T OVERRIDE YOUR SAFETY MEASURES.

In other words, you are an alphawarrior, and how dare that actually bite you in the butt!

Mind you, I feel the damage should be mostly confined to the torso, except on egregious me meltdown, but whatever.

Point is: Override is meant to be an act of desperation/defiance. HEAT is there to help control TTK. Just because you want to ride the razors edge nonstop and not pay, is no good reason for it.

Maybe it's time to learn heat management?

Bishop, you know how to read, after that many posts I'd hope that reading comprehension would of caught up to you by now and jammed itself inside your skull.
Firing 1 laser (and a small portion of it going into overheat range, while they had been on chainfire [GASP]) does not equal an alpha strike. Almost sounds like someone was being careful and try to avoid overheating themselves, but happened to slightly go over and oh look, an Mlas worth of damage to the enemy = full component loss. Whoo.

So, before you start making assumptions (which you had to do, because you apparently didn't even read it), try to realize that you're actually ENCOURAGING the alpha striking that you apparently curse so much. Skirt chainfires = death, alpha and quickly shut yourself down after = no real penalty. Gee, wonder which one has greater incentive's.

What you are honestly crying for is a self-destruct button. Push button, get last rites alpha, explode.

Edit: The difference between who lives and who dies isn't how closely they watched their heat, it's who got lucky with the damage rolls.

Edited by Whoops, 12 November 2014 - 07:56 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Whoops, on 12 November 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Those two mechs will also easily push themselves past the 40% point, though as another poster mentioned, having the damage be more CT centralized is ideal, but PGI seems to want all internals to be affected. Ideally, it would indeed be focused more on the CT region.

(The "we" was me and mcgral. You, the blessed golden child of the O key, have never been so lucky as to be graced with the divine cockpit explosion.)

No complaints with ammo cooking off, it's a tradeoff to consider. You know those things? Making it so someone can take a good with a bad? The current good of firing 1 laser then getting instant death seems a bit skewed, is all.


Bishop, you know how to read, after that many posts I'd hope that reading comprehension would of caught up to you by now and jammed itself inside your skull.
Firing 1 laser (and a small portion of it going into overheat range, while they had been on chainfire [GASP]) does not equal an alpha strike. Almost sounds like someone was being careful and try to avoid overheating themselves, but happened to slightly go over and oh look, an Mlas worth of damage to the enemy = full component loss. Whoo.

So, before you start making assumptions (which you had to do, because you apparently didn't even read it), try to realize that you're actually ENCOURAGING the alpha striking that you apparently curse so much. Skirt chainfires = death, alpha and quickly shut yourself down after = no real penalty. Gee, wonder which one has greater incentive's.

What you are honestly crying for is a self-destruct button. Push button, get last rites alpha, explode.

Lol.

I'm sorry you can't play without override. My bad.

[Sovery_Simple]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 November 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

Lol.

I'm sorry you can't play without override. My bad.

Oh, sorry. I had this erroneous belief you'd bring something of value to the topic. My bad.

[Bishop Steiner]

Whoops, on 12 November 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

Oh, sorry. I had this erroneous belief you'd bring something of value to the topic. My bad.

Answering quality with quality.

Fact: Override means removing safety overrides, like the autoshutdown that keeps your reactor from going critical on overheat.

Turning that off? Means even a little beyond, and you removed the safety mechanisms. Means things maybe might go boom.
Shutting down is done to prevent losing containment. Removing those overrides mean you might lose that containment once you push your heat past that 100% mark.


Any clearer, now? Because so far all I hear is a bunch of QQ that "wah! I can't hit override all the time to keep from shutting down without any risk at all!!!"

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 November 2014 - 08:05 PM.