45 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

for mediums too please, because when people finished their SCR and Centurion and iceferrets I guess it drops very low again too.

[Thorn Hallis]

The solution? Give them more objectives then just ankle biting.

[Darian DelFord]

Brody319, on 16 November 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

I'm not having any problems running lights. Plus the T-wolf just came out. Seriously, there is a reason the que can go up or down without it being "that whole weight class must just be bad"

Lucky Moniker, on 16 November 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

This is also due to the faction tournament going on right now, People are putting up big numbers for this, hence why lights are being ignored.

Sorry, but this is not a valid argument. The light population has dwindled for the last year. The tournaments do not have a vat impact on that, however they do bring out the problem because of the scoring formula's sometimes.

[Lily from animove]

Darian DelFord, on 17 November 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Sorry, but this is not a valid argument. The light population has dwindled for the last year. The tournaments do not have a vat impact on that, however they do bring out the problem because of the scoring formula's sometimes.

wait for CW, when harrasing sniper lights will have a role, and dropship tonnage will limit the mechs you actually can bring.

[Tristan Winter]

The best incentive in this game is... winning.

Forget NARC bonus, forget C-bill and XP bonuses, forget all those "incentives". Forget extra mission objectives for the light mechs. Remember when people thought it would be more fun for light mech pilots to cap if they had to fight their way through a base defended by turrets? Yeah. They were wrong. It's not fun at all.

People want to win. Against other players. When light mechs are more competitive, when they do as much damage, get as many kills and are able to influence the outcome of the match like heavy and assault mechs, people will play them. As long as light mechs are playing second fiddle, people won't play them.

TL;DR:

Edited by Nicolai Kabrinsky, 17 November 2014 - 04:38 AM.

[MerryIguana]

Ursh, on 17 November 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Because there seems to only be one formula for routinely racking up big scores with an IS light...jump jets combined with 4+ medium lasers and 140kph+

Jenners and Firestarters combine being at the top of their weight bracket with huge engine caps and large numbers of energy hardpoints and jumpjets.

It's hard for other lights to get much traction when there's clearly one superior formula.

I somewhat agree with this but then i think about oxide and huggin. They do very well without lasers (or JJ in oxides case).

[Ursh]

MerryIguana, on 17 November 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

I somewhat agree with this but then i think about oxide and huggin. They do very well without lasers (or JJ in oxides case).

Huggin does well now because of super SRM4s.

Oxide was extremely marginal for a long time after it came out.

[KuroNyra]

Most play like Big Mechs.
I do.

Give me the choice between a Raven and a Cataphract, I'll chose the Cataphract. Why? It's bigger, pack more weapon and is more resistant.


Most of the people prefer to get in something "big".

[Dino Might]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 17 November 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

The best incentive in this game is... winning.

Forget NARC bonus, forget C-bill and XP bonuses, forget all those "incentives". Forget extra mission objectives for the light mechs. Remember when people thought it would be more fun for light mech pilots to cap if they had to fight their way through a base defended by turrets? Yeah. They were wrong. It's not fun at all.

People want to win. Against other players. When light mechs are more competitive, when they do as much damage, get as many kills and are able to influence the outcome of the match like heavy and assault mechs, people will play them. As long as light mechs are playing second fiddle, people won't play them.

TL;DR:

Hit the nail right on the head. If you want lights to not be able to kill heavies and assaults, then make victory not be all about killing heavies and assaults. Conquest is the closest thing there is to alternate victory conditions, but the maps are small enough that the winning strategy remains team deathmatch murderball.

Isn't it interesting how the people complaining about lights being too powerful are also the ones who complain about getting conquest on alpine and raised hell when they couldn't 100% exclude it from the rotation?

Edited by Dino Might, 17 November 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[topgun505]

Some lights do ok.

If you are an ECM light and you actually stick with the main body to protect them you can do ok.

If you are a light who's main focus is on LRM support using TAG/NARC you will do ok.

If you are a light doing the fast strike roll you generally get hosed for rewards. You do get a few, but nowhere near the cbills from the other roles and you also have a far more hazardous job since you are usually very close to the opposing team.

Have had losses where I got 55k in rewards, but spent 80k in consumables. Have had wins where I had a few kills and assists and second highest damage on the team and still only got like 130k (then subtract 80k for consumables). The cbills just aren't there unless you specifically tailor your loadout and play style to game the rewards system.

[THumper9669]

The issues with the lights isnt the fact of lack of speed but the lack of being able to do any real damage unless you turn it into a complete weapons system and it becomes useless for the scouting role. When used in a scouting role and with artty or air strike you may get about 300-400 if lucky and able to hit a couple mechs with them. The NARC scoring has made it so people dont want to use it as they get nothing unless you have LRMs on their side to get a small NARC kill bonus for it. The fact that you can hit a spiders leg with a gauss and it does little damage is becoming annoying beyond belief.

[Dino Might]

I don't see either of these as problems. Become a damage dealer - you can do damage, but you're not so hot at scouting or spotting. Want to scout/spot, then you don't do as much damage. That is as it should be.

I love lights because they can (and should be able to) do either. But there's no free lunch, you have to balance and can't do everything at a high level. You can specialize, or try to be jack of all trades. Just like heavier mechs can be brawlers, snipers, or fire support, lights have multiple roles they can fill as well. But no mech (not even the beloved Timby) can do everything as well as the mechs that are purpose built for one task.

The ultimate reward, as stated, is winning. If you do that by dealing damage, great. If you do it by scouting and spotting for your team, great. I am satisfied when my team wins. My preferred way to help my team win is to play in my light that is good at many things but not great at anything, allowing me to adapt to the situation, requiring that I think on my feet and don't make any big mistakes. It adds an element beyond point and click adventures that keeps me playing, and continually I hear people crying to remove that element. Well, we'll see what the devs end up doing and whether or not the game holds my attention. I can tolerate a relatively wide range of adjustments, but I probably won't stick around if we devolve to one style of play for everyone.

[Prezimonto]

Mordin Ashe, on 17 November 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

This. I very much enjoy my light Mechs but they simply don't perform, not as my mediums/heavies/fatties do. I mostly play Clan Mechs and Clan lights are a sad sight. I don't mind playing in a style different to what others do or expect, after all my best games in MWO were in a light Mech. But the Mech bust be worth something, be good at something. Currently IS lights are good at running up close and away. Clan lights, which I would consider playing 90% of my game time, are not good at anything, and it tells the story of why we see many DWs, TWs and SCs and rarely any Kit Foxes or Adders.

I've found the new rewards system to be a huge step in the right direction. Probably not enough, but I'm making good cash on light mechs now, as long as I don't use consumables.

[Sjorpha]

I love playing lights, and I actually feel they are just as good as heavies.

but...

Most of my time in the game is spent grinding to buy and master mechs.
I want mechs of all weight classes for the CW dropdecks.
Heavier mechs take much longer to afford, while buying and mastering a light chassis is quite quick.
The result is that I play lights less of the total time until I have all the mechs I want.

Right now it's the TW, grinding from scratch, after that any of the clan assaults. Go figure when I'm ready to rejoin the light que

I'll be doing a side mission to complete my stable of firestarters, so I'll be there from time to time.

Dropship mode will make people play lights as that will often be the only way to manage bringing an assault or dual heavies in your dropdeck.

If they can also somehow make tonnage a thing for the individual player in solo que, perhaps an inverted tonnage reward multiplier for the rewards so the lighter the mech the higher the payout for equal damage/kill scores. Maybe that would solve the problem? (what I mean by inverted multiplier is that each ton below 100 would equal for example 0.15% reward bonus, so a locust would get +15% and so on)

The reward bonus would be a way to recognize that high tonnage is, and should be, a real gameplay advantage. So therefore i'd prefer some kind of reward bonus or tonnage balancing instead of actually making lights as powerful as assaults, which would feel a bit unthematic IMO.

Edited by Sjorpha, 17 November 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[Myke Pantera]

I also think that lights aren't played as much as other chassis because:
1) No new IS light mech for 9 months
2) The 2 Clan lights simply aren't fun to play (at least for me)
3) there are very few if any 'iconic' light mechs

[Syncline]

My current complaint is that there is a dearth of interesting light mechs. We have a lot of mediocre lights mechs, way too many bad light mechs, and only a few good, unique, interesting light mechs. I'm talking hardpoints and equipment options, mainly. Right now, there is little difference between the various lights, so there's really no reason to run any lights other than a small handful. All of the others basically have the same capabilities on different chassis. Boring.

Edited by Syncline, 17 November 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[buckX]

Mad Porthos, on 17 November 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

Any other mech, you get legged you are down to half speed or 40kph, whichever is slower, right?

Why not just remove the 40kph cap? It's not a penalty to assaults, occasionally a slap on the wrist to heavies, a non-issue to inconvenience for mediums, and crippling for lights. As it turns out, that's exactly the opposite of the balancing mechanics we need in game. If the concept of a legged mech doing 90kph is just too offensive, fine, make it 25% speed, but don't disproportionally hurt light mechs. I'd be fine with a flat 25% mechanic that drops my jenner to 37kph if it also meant the direwolf is stuck in the teens, unable to keep his backside turned away from flankers.

Zetrein, on 17 November 2014 - 12:41 AM, said:

For most everything, we've already got that bonus through simple speed. The one thing we don't have it apply to? LRMs.

That pretty much already exists. If I take my LRM boat out, the only time I'll ever shoot at lights is if I'm tagging with LOS, the light is within 400m, and is not near any obstructions. A full speed light leaves a heck of a lot of LRMs slamming into the ground behind it. The ones that do keep up have a larger spread than the mech itself, mitigating a chunk of damage.

Edited by buckX, 17 November 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[Brody319]

buckX, on 17 November 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

Why not just remove the 40kph cap? It's not a penalty to assaults, occasionally a slap on the wrist to heavies, a non-issue to inconvenience for mediums, and crippling for lights. As it turns out, that's exactly the opposite of the balancing mechanics we need in game. If the concept of a legged mech doing 90kph is just too offensive, fine, make it 25% speed, but don't disproportionally hurt light mechs. I'd be fine with a flat 25% mechanic that drops my jenner to 37kph if it also meant the direwolf is stuck in the teens, unable to keep his backside turned away from flankers.

No. This topic was already covered. There is no reason to remove that cap, it makes no sense in logic to not have it, It makes no sense gameplay wise to remove it either. Every mech weight class has weaknesses that the others do not have. Assaults are slow and have a restricted view, lights do not have these issues. I've been piloting a light, Maybe these people who keep getting legged should stop humping the enemy's legs and stay closer to the team.,

[buckX]

Brody319, on 17 November 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

No. This topic was already covered. There is no reason to remove that cap, it makes no sense in logic to not have it, It makes no sense gameplay wise to remove it either. Every mech weight class has weaknesses that the others do not have. Assaults are slow and have a restricted view, lights do not have these issues. I've been piloting a light, Maybe these people who keep getting legged should stop humping the enemy's legs and stay closer to the team.,

None of those strike me as remotely valid reasons. You're basically claiming that a mech that weighs 100 tons is more capable of preserving its speed than one 20% the size, despite that fact that the lumbering speed, lacking mobility, and stricter fall damage is already proof that it's closer to the maximum load of its legs. If it's anything other than a raw percentage, the lights should be preserving more of their speed, not less. I believe that covers the first 2 of your objections. The fact that lights are in need of buffs, rather than nerfs, addresses your third point about gameplay. As to your fourth, don't worry, lights will still have the weakness of fragility. As we're dispensing unique disadvantages to each weight class, do you really feel like "arbitrarily decreased mobility" is most appropriately assigned to the light mechs? I don't.

[Danghen Woolf]

I enjoy playing my lights, even the Locust. I mastered the Commando and will sometimes use the Uller and the Puma. I do not min/max though so my COM-2D is not far from stock and both of the Clan mechs have stock alternate configs set up. I play the harasser, the scout, I even ran my LCT across the caldera during the tournament and lived with six enemy mechs in there, my machine guns blazing... it was very confusing for them to react to for a second or two, just long enough for me to get in and get them to chase me out. With the way people get fixated on getting that kill the trick is to play the fade. Hit and run is now my favorite reward because it does remind me that I cannot go toe to toe with the big boys out there.