131 replies to this topic

[DYSEQTA]

If by e-sport the OP means a subset of the MWO community playing against each other in organised teams with strict rule sets, much heavier simulation features (adaptive cone of fire, functioning convergence, etc), load-out restrictions, real money on the line for the winner,and with the potential for 'televising' then "hell yes".

If the OP means the current "competitive" players (you know, those tools that refer to every one other than themselves as the underhive) with their alpha-strike-all-day-ery-day and exploitive builds crap competing for money then "hell no".

I would love to watch skilled teams of mature players playing the game like it isn't one.

[Torgun]

Did someone say Meh-sport?

[Marmon Rzohr]

Rezn876, on 17 November 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

I feel the level of competitiveness and teamwork involved in this game is akin to any other sport in general, be it online or not. Regardless of what is to come, or has been for this game, i think it deserves to be as large and well known as those other institutions. I believe that even the most cynical of players shares that hope. I see it most when someone is especially harsh. Why else pour so much emotion into it? Or money? Is a MWO following akin to say, Starcraft, your dream too? Or would you rather it be your niche?

Personally, I think this would be cool. It would be nice for MWO to have a strong competitive aspect. I feel it would be beneficial for the growth of the game in terms of player and for the development of the game itself. In other words it would bring in both new players and bring back old ones because there would be more "stuff to do" in the game. In the end it would also push the developer to keep improving the game faster.


However, it seems to me that MWO would need to go through some significant evolution to have a strong competitive aspect, not because there is no skill involved in playing the game as it now, but rather because there is insufficient mechanical complexity involved in playing the game at a competitive level.

Explanation & ideas:

The game is hard on new players because there are a lot of factors you have to learn and you have to learn them all at once (mech control, weapon control, location damage, heat management and the mechlab). But once you get past this, yes you can perfect your skills, but despite this game experience kinda levels out. Instead it should then open up to even more mechanics and things to do, to keep players on their toes for as long as possible.

Some good ways to do this would be:
- add more movement mechanics. Some extra moves with JJs, side stepping (NOT strafing) but one big, lurching step to the side when you double tap A or D, very mech-like, crouching, collisions

- add more tactical tools - passive sensors, flares to overload heat/night vision, smoke launchers, mines etc.

- make the game mechanically easier for beginners and harder for veterans. The most potent loadouts should have at least 3 weapon types in order to be harder to aim and manage (AC, lasers and PPC for example), while new players could use simple boating builds which have less potential but are easier to use as a crutch while learning. This seems to me the hardest to do in terms of design and balance, but requires the least amount of coding/modelling work. It might even be done with aggressive weapon specific quirking or something like that.

As far as people saying this would reflect negatively on the game, I don't think that would be the case, this isn't a run-and-gun appealing to loudmouths like CoD is and there are so many ways MWO's competitive aspect could be realized, that it is somewhat closed-minded to think it could only bring negative change. Anything from planetary conquest or special mission-type battles with a strong objective focus to Solaris-like arena matches could be MWO's competitive aspect. The potential of MWO is amazing.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 18 November 2014 - 04:50 AM.

[LONGINUS]

OH HELL NO!

[Joseph Mallan]

Rezn876, on 17 November 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

I feel the level of competitiveness and teamwork involved in this game is akin to any other sport in general, be it online or not. Regardless of what is to come, or has been for this game, i think it deserves to be as large and well known as those other institutions. I believe that even the most cynical of players shares that hope. I see it most when someone is especially harsh. Why else pour so much emotion into it? Or money? Is a MWO following akin to say, Starcraft, your dream too? Or would you rather it be your niche?

I do not want to see this kind of "Combat" turned into a E-Sport. This is a Futuristic War Game, War should not be classified as a Sport.

It sends the wrong message .

[Fishbulb333]

esports?

[CyclonerM]

Jakob Knight, on 17 November 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

The last thing we need in MWO is more E-Sport attitude. That is what has driven so much of the nerfs, 'balancing', and general impetus to make battles nothing more than rock-em-sock-em robots without any goal other than equal sides competing in a regulated arena to see who wins on 'points'.

MWO isn't a sport. It's a simulation of armored -warfare-. As such, we need -less- sports aspects such as short time limits on battles, scoring outside of anything but achieving battlefield objectives, small maps, and the general attitude that everything from weapons to maps should be continually changed until everything in it is basically 'equal' between two sides and between mech types (I'm sorry, but a Light mech -should- die almost instantly every time it engages an Assault mech...that's the way the two are built).

That's fine in an arena fight, but only because that is all such combat will ever be. MWO has to be more than that, or we might as well go play console games.

So, let's stop this 'MWO should be a sports game' and instead start with 'MWO should be a war game'. Anything else is just unworthy of the name MechWarrior, and should be ejected from any consideration by any reasonable player of the game.

Post worth some spamming.

Btw, i am fine with "arena competitive combat" if that is relegated to and based on a Solaris VII feature. It could be another tab in the UI. As public play queques are for "regular" play, CW is hardcore faction replay, Solaris would be the competitive area of the game: points, leaderboards, money prizes for big tournaments. I may got here from time to time to try different kinds of combat: 1vs1, lance vs lance (not Star because it is ultimately IS-based), etc. But it should not be the focus of the game, at all.

Combat SIMULATION, not combat sport.

[Sjorpha]

Rezn876, on 18 November 2014 - 12:51 AM, said:

Very true and at the same time true of music. Simple things are more widely accepted. Things that are very simple can be viewed as lacking complexity but its ironic how complex simple things can be. like chess.

What would you say is one of the more obvious error in execution in terms of becoming a larger community?

Errors in execution:
As evidenced by a simple google search, the public relations and community management have been handled poorly up until this summer. You might even call it a PR disaster judging by some of the articles from 2013. This, coupled with a premature hype campaign and a series of missed deadlines have left parts of the community sour, as well as a public track record imprinted all over the interwebs, both unfortunately discouraging to new players.

You also have the issue of pricing, for me not a moral one at all, but rather an observation that high prices makes big spenders feel entitled to complain a lot more than if they had spent a reasonable sum, so that kind of pricing strategy tends to lock you down in a kind of PR prison with the things you said interpreted as held or broken promises, not a wise thing to do in the beginning of developing a new game because you need to maintain flexibility.

There are also some majors issues with the client itself, the UI is simply atrociously ineffective all over, and the new player experience is compromised by the lack of proper learning tools and by being thrown immediately into the fray with the best players.

Underneath those issues are (IMO) a very nice mech combat simulator with considerable potential and remarkably good balance. I find the constand complaining about overstated balance issues both tiring and petty, and interpret the less constructive whining as a symptom of the previously mentioned sourness in the community rather than people actually thinking straight.

Fortunately none of this is irredeemable, and the current development looks promising in my eyes.

Edited by Sjorpha, 18 November 2014 - 05:07 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 18 November 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

Post worth some spamming.

Btw, i am fine with "arena competitive combat" if that is relegated to and based on a Solaris VII feature. It could be another tab in the UI. As public play queques are for "regular" play, CW is hardcore faction replay, Solaris would be the competitive area of the game: points, leaderboards, money prizes for big tournaments. I may got here from time to time to try different kinds of combat: 1vs1, lance vs lance (not Star because it is ultimately IS-based), etc. But it should not be the focus of the game, at all.

Combat SIMULATION, not combat sport.

Quoted AND highlighted for truth.

entertainment for the Mob!

[Mystere]

Rezn876, on 17 November 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

I feel the level of competitiveness and teamwork involved in this game is akin to any other sport in general, be it online or not. Regardless of what is to come, or has been for this game, i think it deserves to be as large and well known as those other institutions. I believe that even the most cynical of players shares that hope. I see it most when someone is especially harsh. Why else pour so much emotion into it? Or money? Is a MWO following akin to say, Starcraft, your dream too? Or would you rather it be your niche?

I've said it before and I will say it again:

**** eSports!

(With the sole exception of a 24+ no-holds-barred, winner-takes-all, last-man-standing Solaris mode, of course. )

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Rezn876, on 17 November 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

The original question is, do you want this games community to grow or not? How much growth is too much then, because people also gripe about the population becoming stagnate.

If it goes E-Sports the community will die Paul's alt.

CyclonerM, on 18 November 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

leaderboards, 1vs1

Fubk these ideas

[Divine Retribution]

I do hope the player base of MWO grows substantially but I hope it never becomes a esport. Every time I hear, read, or think about the concept of an esport I cringe a little bit. Every time I'm exposed to a serious discussion about esports I get annoyed. Every time I'm exposed to an esport player I feel pity for the person. I think that's enough information for most people to understand my feelings on MWO ever becoming an esport. Hint: I don't want this game to be an esport (single-word oxymoron to me).

I will add what I always say about MWO becoming an esport. You don't design an esport, you design a game. If the game is interesting the game will have a core regular player base. If the game is of sound design and function it become popular. Out of that popularity comes the esport. The NFL was formed based on the success of a game (and its predecessors), football wasn't born from the NFL. Perhaps we should focus on a successful game and see where it leads rather than trying force MWO into a place it might not belong.

My habit of reading through threads before posting really bit me on this one...

[SI The Joker]

Well... those dudes who made a million bucks playing League of Legends or whatever it was might disagree with the overall sentiment of 'esports'... buuuuut...

The only e-sport available here are the forums.

[MadPanda]

To be a successive e-sports, the game needs to appeal to viewers. That's #1, it isn't the players because players will always come to where the people and money are. You can check twitch for some streams that sometimes stream a tournament. It is incredibly dull to watch as two teams move towards each other in a ball form and have a furious 1 minutes brawl where you can't really tell what's going on. The funniest thing I saw was when the caster opened up the score board and casted the brawl from the life % going down because you simply couldn't follow the fight.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Adiuvo, on 17 November 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

BTW all of you people who are saying that MWO never will have potential as an esport obviously paid no attention to MW4. Competitive play was massive in that game with multiple player made leagues. Their games were even broadcast on G4 back in the day...

MW4 back in the day was a fully completed game where you had 100% access to everything for the price on release day from Newegg being $39.99 after your $5 mail in rebate and free shipping.

I don't remember who did it, I think it was Broceratops, took the MC value of every mech we currently had available, which at the time he did it the Blackjack had just come out, and in order to have access to just all the mechs (at the time) a player would to spend in excess of $900.

MW4 also had singleplayer viability so new players could play it and learn it without getting thrashed in multiplayer sink or swim.

Those two reasons are why MW4 had FAR more proliferation that MWO will ever see, even though MWO in it's own right is actually the far better game mechanically.

The killer for MWO, even with its free cost of entry, is its nonexistent new player experience (I mean come on, the 25th match on my most recent alt had two SJRs and a Lord, tiny playerbase much?) and cost of viability that kills it. Really, $30 for ONE good mech in this game where MW4 was $40 for everything? And people wonder why smart devs are starting to avoid F2P games and smart customers are too (the established F2P games are here to stay; PS2, WoT, and LoL are solid. MWO does not fall into that camp).

[Fut]

TygerLily, on 17 November 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

I think [Solaris] would be the best way to ensure the eSport aspect has a future. Create a space for ultracompetitiveness. The "Solaris" world is the perfect concept! Break the BT canon rules in this area, keep the lower TTK (in relation to most shooters) and gameplay staples, etc...but make the Solaris world some sort of opt-in experience full of ladders, regular high reward tournaments, etc.

This is what PGI should do.
Leave the regular game (Pug/group queues and CW) alone, and introduce Solaris for people who are looking for more of a E-Sport atmosphere. Really, if they put there best minds on the job, they should be able to pull it off flawlessly.

[Joseph Mallan]

Fut, on 18 November 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

This is what PGI should do.
Leave the regular game (Pug/group queues and CW) alone, and introduce Solaris for people who are looking for more of a E-Sport atmosphere. Really, if they put there best minds on the job, they should be able to pull it off flawlessly.

Both those ladies are busy with CW.

LOL J/K J/K! (Not about the ladies being the BEST minds though.)

[Fut]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Both those ladies are busy with CW.

It doesn't happen often, but that literally got an audible chuckle out of me.. so I guess 'COL'.

[SaltBeef]

E-sport Solaris would be viable as a side element of the game outside of pugging and CW , Single player Campaign.

[Barantor]

If it was outside of the bounds of regular CW and had a bracket style setup similar to what you see with LoL/Smite/Dota and had commentators that knew how to do it like WGLNA (world of tanks tourney NA) then I could see it happening.

Those type of things draw a crowd and build hype for the game even if it doesn't grow as a sport much.