131 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

MW:O can never be a competitive e-sport for one very palpable reason... MW:O and more specifically the BT universe construct is inherently "imbalanced".

In order for MW:O to even be considered as an e-sport there needs to be a complete foundation of equity and balance... It's not here now and quite frankly I hope it never is...

MW:O without it's imperfections and nuances is just another non-descript shooter in mechs clothing.

No thank you...

[kf envy]

maybe they have an ubie e-sport but MWO no way

[themoob]

E-sport is stupid anyway, I'd rather MWO never be an e-sport so I can enjoy it.

[Jakob Knight]

Kyle Wright, on 17 November 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

The thing you guys need to realize that if MWO does become a e-sport it means more money for PGI and that mean a bigger development team. And most importantly bigger prize giveaways for these weekend events in general. Possible sale on promotional items from sponsors... Just saying. Just because it goes e-sport doesnt mean you have to too.

Not factual. If MWO becomes an e-sport, all players of any quality will leave the game, as there will be no point playing a watered-down sports event time and again. That means alot less money for PGI and less need for any development team (what is there to develop when all battles are simple matches that are the same thing over and over?). Finally, who gives a flying squirrel's foot about prize giveaways except the players who only see MWO as a sport already? What good is getting a shiny new football trophy for your cockpit if you aren't here to play a sport? If you are only here for the prizes, then you are already no better than a sports player.

As for sponsors....last I saw, the only sponsor for MWO just left and the game seems to have improved in both developmental pace and general attitude. I don't see having company advertisement space sold for product placement in MWO to be, in any way, a thing to actually want in this game.

So, I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. Making this game a sports game would only lead to a losing situation for both the devs and the game.

[Thunder Child]

And Jakob, just want to call you out on the whole Assault versus Light thing. Because that is entirely situational. Panther versus Atlas, Atlas is most likely to win, due to the Panthers low speed. Jenner versus Atlas, completely different kettle of fish. Unless the Jenner makes a poor play, he has the speed to almost NEVER be hit. Sure, if he does get hit, he's likely to be smoked, but only IF.

Even a Fast Medium can tangle with a solo Assault, if that Assault is built for engaging heavy targets.

[Jakob Knight]

Thunder Child, on 17 November 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

And Jakob, just want to call you out on the whole Assault versus Light thing. Because that is entirely situational. Panther versus Atlas, Atlas is most likely to win, due to the Panthers low speed. Jenner versus Atlas, completely different kettle of fish. Unless the Jenner makes a poor play, he has the speed to almost NEVER be hit. Sure, if he does get hit, he's likely to be smoked, but only IF.

Even a Fast Medium can tangle with a solo Assault, if that Assault is built for engaging heavy targets.

The point is, if MWO were what it should have always been, that Jenner should also die almost every time unless it is the -Atlas- that makes a very poor play. That the Jenner can reasonably come out on top in a direct fight is the result of the devs not wanting the Atlas to have the ability to kill the Jenner in one shot as it was supposed to be (go back and fight the battle in the original material. A single AC/20 hit was doom for a Jenner). And, with the average capabilities of both mechs, that hit was a better than even chance of happening whenever the Jenner got into range to use it's own weapons.

This was done in MWO in the name of 'fairness' so Light mech pilots -could- take on Assault mechs on even terms. Something that no Light mech pilot in Battletech would have even attempted with a competent pilot in charge of the Assault mech.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 17 November 2014 - 08:45 PM.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

hmmm i think i may be missunderstood and used the wrong terms. I ment the size of the community should be large, not that i wanted to change anything. I just want to see this game have a huge following.

[Tarogato]

I'm not sold on the argument that e-sport would hurt MWO. PGI is already working hard to balance the game, even IS has a chance against Clan and light has a chance against assault, so equality is less of an issue than it ever was and the devs are still pushing this forward with subsequent quirk passes.

I think we need to have more tournaments (unit vs. unit brackets) to test the waters for viability and go from there, publicising more and more over time.

I maybe be speaking for myself, but when I watch the old tournament series' on Youtube, it makes me want to join a competitive unit and have a chance at playing these kinds of matches from time to time. Kinda inspires me a bit.

[Jakob Knight]

Tarogato, on 17 November 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

I'm not sold on the argument that e-sport would hurt MWO. PGI is already working hard to balance the game, even IS has a chance against Clan and light has a chance against assault, so equality is less of an issue than it ever was and the devs are still pushing this forward with subsequent quirk passes.

I think we need to have more tournaments (unit vs. unit brackets) to test the waters for viability and go from there, publicising more and more over time.

I maybe be speaking for myself, but when I watch the old tournament series' on Youtube, it makes me want to join a competitive unit and have a chance at playing these kinds of matches from time to time. Kinda inspires me a bit.

I can understand your viewpoint, but only because I realize that you only have tournaments and the arena combat setup we currently have to look upon to make your evaluation upon. You don't have an example of what MWO could be like as an actual warfare simulation because MWO has ever been gravitating towards arena play. CW may give you a better idea what the game could be, and that's why so many of us who care about the game as a simulation rather than a tournament tool have been screaming for it for years now.

Right now, the tournaments being held are actually breaking apart Units, as players avoid their unitmates in favor of meeting the conditions of one tournament after another. When the tournaments state only lance or solo play counts, the Units fragment almost immediately, with players avoiding each other because of them. Competitive play also enforces exclusion as competitive teams shut out anyone who isn't on their competitive teams in the effort to ensure winning, even in Units that prize their inclusive natures.

So, I do not see more tournaments as a thing we need. We need, in fact, less tournaments and leaderboards, and more actual meaning to our battles. In other words, we need to move away from tournaments, not closer.

[Tarogato]

Jakob Knight, on 17 November 2014 - 08:56 PM, said:

I can understand your viewpoint, but only because I realize that you only have tournaments and the arena combat setup we currently have to look upon to make your evaluation upon. You don't have an example of what MWO could be like as an actual warfare simulation because MWO has ever been gravitating towards arena play. CW may give you a better idea what the game could be, and that's why so many of us who care about the game as a simulation rather than a tournament tool have been screaming for it for years now.

Right now, the tournaments being held are actually breaking apart Units, as players avoid their unitmates in favor of meeting the conditions of one tournament after another. When the tournaments state only lance or solo play counts, the Units fragment almost immediately, with players avoiding each other because of them. Competitive play also enforces exclusion as competitive teams shut out anyone who isn't on their competitive teams in the effort to ensure winning, even in Units that prize their inclusive natures.

So, I do not see more tournaments as a thing we need. We need, in fact, less tournaments and leaderboards, and more actual meaning to our battles. In other words, we need to move away from tournaments, not closer.

We might not be thinking of the same thing. You're thinking of the weekend leaderboards, and I'm referring to events like these:



I know where you're coming from, though, and believe me, I'm totally for MW2-like missions, with actual objectives other than standard fps-style game modes. But hey, I think a more competitive environment that is completely separated from that would fair well, since there are obviously plenty of meta-hogs to populate it.

Edited by Tarogato, 17 November 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[luxebo]

Solaris aka Deathmatch is basically e-sports. Would be just like MWLL/Heavy Gear/etc.

That or basically no. Will not settle for E-sports Warfare over Community Warfare.

[Deathlike]

The current state of balance will never allow MWO to become an e-sport. The lack of logic used in many balance changes will plague it. I mean, we can talk about Flamers, Small Lasers, Small Pulse Lasers and quite a few other bits in many different ways, but ultimately, there is no clear vision or even an understanding of the kinds of things that are wrong with the game.

Most of the quirks have not really changed the "meta" ultimately, with the few outliers that have benefited greatly (Thunderbolt-5SS gets the majority of MPL usage). It still doesn't mean the Spider-5V is any good.

Of course, that doesn't even begin to express the ECM vs LRM behavior.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Speaking of Older mech title's, MWO easily overshadows my childhood memories of mw2,3,4 MC, ECT. Until i played this game, i didn't really learn or know how to play a mech to it fullest. This game is head and shoulders more immersive and has coaxed way more emotion from me.

[zeta44]

Whenever I am in a match I always get this competitive feeling, there is a lot of co-ordination involved, whenever the team I am on doesn't communicate we usually lose, then their is the aspect of thinking about your mechs build, you cant just pick up a rifle and kill 3 guys before they can turn around.
Though if it was an e sport it brings in all the people who are far to serious about the game, video games where originally made to have fun right? Then why ruin that aspect by creating an air of tension and seriousness.

I rest my case (turns around and walks out)

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 17 November 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

The current state of balance will never allow MWO to become an e-sport. The lack of logic used in many balance changes will plague it. I mean, we can talk about Flamers, Small Lasers, Small Pulse Lasers and quite a few other bits in many different ways, but ultimately, there is no clear vision or even an understanding of the kinds of things that are wrong with the game.

Most of the quirks have not really changed the "meta" ultimately, with the few outliers that have benefited greatly (Thunderbolt-5SS gets the majority of MPL usage). It still doesn't mean the Spider-5V is any good.

Of course, that doesn't even begin to express the ECM vs LRM behavior.

To be fair, the SPL might actually be semi-tolerable to use right now due to the recent buffs. I will need to conduct tests of Science™ after I eventually manage to finish grinding out Ferrets and Lynxes (which is taking a while due to having little free time...).

It's probably a very niche use though, for mechs who already have plenty of mid-long range guns and have some spare energy hardpoints for close quarters (that's the theory, anyways...). I've even seen a few Doomcrows using 4-5 SPL + 2 LPL roaming about. I'm contemplating doing something similar on the Mad Cat. Timberwub, I choose you!

Edited by FupDup, 17 November 2014 - 09:30 PM.

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

I see no problems with tension in a war simulator. I see no problem starting a match worried your not more prepared then your enemies. What is more real for a war simulator? Fun, or fear? OR the feeling of relief when you win despite all odds?

[Legionary Titus Pullo]

Real war is imbalanced. Again maybe my terms are misunderstood. I DO NOT want a watered down game pandering to the masses. I want more people to embrace this game

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 17 November 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

To be fair, the SPL might actually be semi-tolerable to use right now due to the recent buffs. I will need to conduct tests of Science™ after I eventually manage to finish grinding out Ferrets and Lynxes (which is taking a while due to having little free time...).

It's probably a very niche use though, for mechs who already have plenty of mid-long range guns and have some spare energy hardpoints for close quarters (that's the theory, anyways...). I've even seen a few Doomcrows using 4-5 SPL + 2 LPL roaming about. I'm contemplating doing something similar on the Mad Cat. Timberwub, I choose you!

If it is for the mechs that benefit from it (one of the Firestarters got that buff... I can't remember which but don't care for that over the H), then perhaps.

My Timbergod grinding was halted this weekend due to the tourney/event (and I forsee it being a terrible idea for the Timbergods to use SPL), and now I have to deal with the Mist Lynx (I like calling in the Koshi, because it sounds better) and I've already made up my mind on the builds and expect mediocrity....

Edited by Deathlike, 17 November 2014 - 09:46 PM.

[Quxudica]

Rezn876, on 17 November 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

I feel the level of competitiveness and teamwork involved in this game is akin to any other sport in general, be it online or not. Regardless of what is to come, or has been for this game, i think it deserves to be as large and well known as those other institutions. I believe that even the most cynical of players shares that hope. I see it most when someone is especially harsh. Why else pour so much emotion into it? Or money? Is a MWO following akin to say, Starcraft, your dream too? Or would you rather it be your niche?

E-Sports need to be fun to watch and accessible enough for non-players to grasp. MWO fails on both counts. Plus the game has no tools to support such a thing. No Replays, No spectator mode, it just woudn't work well.

You could have a Mechwarrior title as an E-Sport, assuming there was enough interest in it (there isn't and never will be though), but MWO isn't that game.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 17 November 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

Jesus christ no.

Wast this Paul or Bryan's idea? Dev alt detected - the OP not the quoted

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 17 November 2014 - 09:52 PM.