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Infohub - Confederation Capella - Society


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#1 Felix Drummond

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 07:54 PM

As there has been a lot of discussion and some confusing information circulation going on in the House Liao forums I felt it necessary to provide people that are new the Battletech universe with a more complete and detailed source of information in regard to the Capellan Society.

Please keep in mind that the information here-in is just a splinter of what makes up the Confederation Capella and focuses only on the Society aspect of the Confederation.

For those that do not have the CURRENT sourcebook House Liao here is a more complete and fair look at the Capellan Society. There is a lot more information in the Chapter Society & Culture then this. This is just a tiny exert of the whole picture that makes up the Capellan Society & Culture, its the introductory part to the chapter, but it delivers a much better and complete picture then what has so far been quoted.

This thread is purely meant as a place to inform about and discuss official (cannon) lore, it is not a place to push your own agenda what ever it might be.


The house of lowtax (which has been propagating their own version of what the Capellan Confederation should be like or should become) is welcome to join the discussion as long as we can keep it civil and on track (on track meaning please refrain from diverting from the official lore).

At the same time it is also expected from us "Loyalists" to be civil and keep on track.


You can and should voice your own opinion but without intend to flame others or forcing it upon them.

I would also like to urge anyone that is interested in any of the story and background information about the BTuniverse to consider spending a couple of bucks on some of the source books which make a ) great reading and b ) support the BT franchise by financing publishers that put effort into keeping this great SiFi story alive with their works.

In particular for those of you that are interested in more about House Liao, the exerts I quoted are from the NEW House Liao sourcebook which you can buy in pdf format for just $25 from the official publisher store: http://www.battlecor...roducts_id=2734

All rights and credits of the following text from the House Liao sourcebook belong to Catalyst Game Labs.

Quote

SOCIETY & CULTURE

Life in the Capellan Confederation is both simpler and much
more difficult than life in some other Successor States.
Capellans are a rightfully proud people, a class of citizens
who know that everyone among them has earned that appellation.
The state provides many of the basic services that citizens
of other realms so often squabble over, and the Capellan military
of 3067 provides Capellans the most secure lifestyle that any
Confederation citizen has enjoyed in a century or more.


Capellan Citizenship

Unlike many other interstellar realms, birth is not a qualification
for citizenship in the Capellan Confederation. Every Capellan
citizen—noble-born or not—must offer the state some service in
order to earn his or her citizenship. At birth, every Capellan is legally
made a ward of the state under the nominal authority of the
child’s parents or state-appointed guardians. Though not supported
in legal precedents, unwritten laws keep families together. Only
in difficult circumstances is a child removed from its parents—if
the parents were killed soon after the child was born, perhaps, or
if they are deployed on extended military missions. The family is a
venerated unit of Capellan society, and whatever the legal status
of children, no attempts to disrupt families are made without very
good reasons.

The Ministry of Social Education regulates citizenship, and the
obligation to provide some service to the state is taken seriously
during the child’s growth and education. By age fifteen, a native
Capellan must have completed his citizenship service, normally a
volunteer program designed to provide a vehicle for citizenship—
for example, working in the conservation corps or the Capellan
Star Scouts, or volunteering in a hospital or retirement hospice.

A Capellan youth who fails to meet his or her citizenship requirements
by age fifteen is put on probation and subjected to a
crash program of social and political indoctrination. Because the
MSE recognizes a lack of sufficient moral character as the only reason
a child would not be sufficiently motivated to earn citizenship,
these classes emphasize the need for a strong state and the sacrifices
an individual must be willing to make to ensure the state’s
prosperity. Most probationary students pass this second round of
examinations and earn their citizenship, but a small percentage
still refuse to be a productive part of the state, and so are relegated
to the servitor caste.


Immigration

Citizens of other realms may immigrate to the Confederation,
but non-noble immigrants must undergo a complete educational
cycle about life in the Confederation and the meaning of Capellan
citizenship. They are required to perform the same service to
the state as any Capellan schoolchild, though they often do this
through several months of unpaid labor in their chosen profession,
or assignment to a public works project, rather than the community
service-oriented programs for students.

Noble-born immigrants may avoid the indoctrination period
and service requirement by paying a sizable relocation fee to the
state treasury, and are inducted into the Sheng nobility at one rank
lower than their previous noble rank.

Populations of worlds conquered by the Confederation military
are immediately entered into the ranks of the servitor caste, making
them second-class citizens. Though this practice sometimes
costs the Confederation the productivity of skilled specialists and
technicians, it is important for each world to learn its place in the
Capellan realm. A planet whose inhabitants actively resisted the
Confederation only days before can hardly expect to become an
honored member of it overnight, not when every Capellan citizen—
whether from the backwater villages of Ward or the cultured
cities of Sian—has already sacrificed to earn his or her place in
the nation. Caste assignment is generally accomplished within a
few years, and the conquered populations can then be allowed to
qualify for Capellan citizenship. The only exceptions to this rule are
children born on a planet after its conquest, who are accorded the
same state protection as any Capellan child.


Citizens’ Obligations

As a citizen of the Confederation, every Capellan is expected to
place the good of the state before personal gain. As a testament to
that, every citizen must take an oath of loyalty to the Confederation,
to House Liao and to the Chancellor, whose decrees may not be
questioned. Though for the most part Capellans are free to pursue
whatever lifestyle they choose, in extreme situations they are subject
to the direction of a planetary diem, who may determine that
a certain industry or segment thereof must be strengthened.

Likewise, citizens are subject to colonization directives, should
the Confederation need to quickly populate a newly colonized
world to ensure its rapid exploitation. Skilled laborers may also be
retrained to address labor shortages in other industries. For example,
if a world has too many vehicle manufacturers and not enough
textile engineers, a number of vehicle-manufacturing employees
will be retrained to work in the textile industry. This retraining is
mandatory, though the cost of it is covered by the state.
Citizens not already part of the regular Capellan military are
encouraged to join their planetary Home Guards, and every
Capellan citizen must register with the local militia for duty in the
event of invasion or catastrophe. When natural disasters occur, all
Capellans—citizens or not—are expected to help with relief efforts
and follow the direction of planetary officials.

In theory, every Capellan citizen has the right to appeal directly
to the Chancellor for perceived grievances against government officials
or organizations. In practice, this is exceedingly rare, even
more so now than fifty years ago. Chancellor Romano Liao became
known for executing citizens whom she thought wasted her time
with petitions, and so most Capellans now address these concerns
to local officials such as their refrector, who can forward their petitions
to the House of Scions.

As with any earned right, citizenship can be revoked. The
Capellan courts may revoke the citizenship of criminals, and the
Chancellor may do likewise for any reason he wishes. In some
cases, citizenship is revoked to facilitate governmental seizure of
property. In the military, loss of citizenship is one of the punishments for many of the worst crimes, such as cowardice in the face of the enemy or treason. A citizen who has his citizenship revoked
is immediately relegated to servitor rank.


The Capellan Caste System

Capellans live at the mercy of their bureaucracy, and though
for the most part the state does its best not to interfere in the lives
of its citizens, it does not hesitate to do so when necessary. Franco
Liao established an incentive program for workers in the arms
industry, granting special privileges to those supporting the war
effort. Over the years, more of these incentive programs were created,
with each gradually coalescing into the social caste system
that dominates the Confederation today.

It is important to note that the caste system is largely created
and maintained by Capellan citizens themselves, not by the government.
In an effort to relieve some of the stress inherent in living
in such a regimented culture, the caste system promotes feelings
of community between social peers, and these communities have
grown to include social monetary funds, support structures and
even (in rare cases) self-governance in certain aspects of their lives.

Caste leaders, for example, are elected by popular vote of
their caste, in the only remnant of democracy still existing in
the Confederation. While caste leaders have no say over the
Confederation’s governance, they do have significant control over
the attitudes and feelings of their caste members, and leaders in
the past have taken advantage of this power to attempt to influence
policy.

The caste system is not hereditary, nor is it exclusive. A member
of one caste is free to marry a member of another, for example,
and membership in a certain caste is open to any should they wish
to move, so long as they can qualify and gain permission from the
caste leaders. Confederation society currently contains seven official
castes and one unofficial caste.

Directorship
The directorship is the caste of the bureaucrat, the caste to
which most administrators as high as the planetary level belong.
Because of their ease of movement throughout the bureaucracy,
members of the directorship display influence far outside their actual
numbers, and have an excellent relationship with the House of
Scions (which includes many directorship members).

Intelligentsia
The intelligentsia are the Confederation’s thinkers. As the sector
of the population most vital to the Confederation’s growth,
they are accorded the highest regard and most flexible living
conditions of any caste. Scientists, technicians and religious leaders
make up this caste, and many of them are amply rewarded for
their contributions to the state with noble titles or large properties.
Their salaries are the highest of any caste, even the non-noble
members.

Supporters
Supporters are the non-science-oriented professionals of the
Confederation: educators, political economists, members of the
judiciary and so on. Teachers are perhaps the most widely respected
professionals in the entire Confederation—as long as they
maintain the correct political outlook—and make up a large portion
of the supporters. Business leaders and industrialists fall into
the supporters caste as well.

Artists
Art in the Confederation is a venerated profession, so long as
the art has demonstrable value for the state. Painters, sculptors,
musicians, entertainers, actors and show people of all descriptions
make up the ranks of the Artists caste. Of all castes except the servitors,
artists receive on average the lowest wages and benefits,
though numerous state-sponsored endowments exist to promote
artists who make significant contributions to Capellan life.

The Entitled
The entitled are the Confederation’s medical professionals:
doctors, nurses and other health-care workers. Given the nature of
their service, members of this caste are the only ones with a blanket
travel allowance, permitting them to travel anywhere in the
Confederation without restriction. Because of this, the Maskirovka monitors the entitled very closely for foreign agents, but surprisingly
few are discovered among them.

The Commonality
The commonality caste represents the bulk of Capellan citizens:
the huge masses of skilled and unskilled laborers who toil to
operate the state’s industries, keep its farms productive and maintain
its infrastructure. Because of this caste’s sheer size and the
power it holds over industry, commonality caste leaders on every
Confederation planet meet often with planetary diems to discuss
wages, price adjustments and holidays. While any such decision
is at the discretion of the diem, anyone can see that productivity
increases when laborers feel they have a voice with those whose
decisions affect their daily lives.

Servitors
Only officially recognized after the ascension of Sun-Tzu Liao to
the Celestial Throne, servitors are the largest segment of Capellan
society to grow out of the centuries of Succession Wars. Servitors
are second-class Capellans, not considered citizens, and are treated
as little more than slave labor. The servitors, more than any other
caste, were often cited by Hanse Davion and his propaganda machine
as the cause of the Fourth Succession War, despite the fact
that this caste had existed for hundreds of years.
Servitors perform society’s mundane tasks, those that are necessary
but that other Capellans are unwilling or disinclined to do.
Most servitors are treated as slaves, and until 3052 could be owned
by noble Capellan citizens. One of Sun-Tzu Liao’s first acts was to
abolish the ownership of servitors and establish the beginnings of
a true caste system for them. These actions paid fulsome dividends
when the Confederation embraced Xin Sheng, making the servitors
some of Sun-Tzu’s most fervent supporters.
As with other castes, servitors may earn (or attempt to re-earn)
their citizenship after ten years of service, and more and more servitors
have done so since 3052. The children of servitors are treated like
any other Capellan child, entered into state schools and given the
same citizenship requirements as the children of Capellan nobles.

Janshi
The first murmurs of a warrior (janshi) caste began after Xin
Sheng, when the resurgent Capellan military engineered victory
after victory. In the past, Capellan soldiers existed outside the
caste system for as long as they served, but the national and martial
pride brought about by Xin Sheng is leading many to suggest
forming a new caste for the military.


#2 Howling Mad Murdock

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Posted 26 June 2012 - 12:54 AM

Good post Felidae, lots of information for people to work through :(

#3 IMTatsu

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 10:11 AM

Excellent post.

>:{

#4 Adridos

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:50 AM

It's always nice to learn something new. Thanks Felidae. :)

And here's a simple picture of castes side by side, just to make it easier for TL;DR'rs.

Posted Image

#5 IIurricane

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 09:38 PM

View PostAdridos, on 29 June 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

It's always nice to learn something new. Thanks Felidae. :P

And here's a simple picture of castes side by side, just to make it easier for TL;DR'rs.

Posted Image


where did you get this picture?

Edited by IIurricane, 29 June 2012 - 09:39 PM.


#6 Adridos

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 10:48 PM

View PostIIurricane, on 29 June 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

where did you get this picture?


It's one of the few pictures Catalyst released to the public.
They did so when they talked about the Handbook: House Liao and talked about how they came to life (concepts, etc.). :P

The full text is here, if you'e interested: http://www.battletec...t-notes-part-1/

#7 IIurricane

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 02:03 AM

@Adridos

very interesting, thank´s

Today I received my Handbook of House Liao, finally!

Edited by IIurricane, 30 June 2012 - 02:07 AM.


#8 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 09:13 PM

Thats why I like FRR. real underdogs lol

#9 IxxxI

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:21 AM

All off topic posts have been and will be deleted. Please create separate thread for Tatatae society discussion (oh, you have it already almost in every rest topics on forum, ok, nwm).

#10 Felix Drummond

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 07:47 AM

Yes lets please not distract from the actual topic of this thread.

View PostNOBLETETATAEWARRIOR, on 30 June 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

I hate to say it but the comparisons to communist dicatorships and the CapCon is still pretty spot on. A vast beurocracy directs every aspect of your life, and can use you at will for any function it sees fit at any time. And it has a crazy homicidal leader (sometimes).


That is an interesting statement Nobeltetataewarrior, but I don't think that you can compare the CapCon that much with a communist dictatorship. There are some key elements that sets it very much apart. That is not to say that there are no elements of a communist dictatorship, but these can also be found in other governing types.

All in all the CapCon is a lot more like an absolute monarchy then a communist dictatorship if one solely takes in account the governing model. The chancellor is really an absolute monarch, who resides over the noble classes of the Barduc and Shen, who in their turn enact and enforce the chancellors orders. As the titles of the nobility are on top of that also hereditary there is not even a doubt that this is a monarchist system.

There is also no party that one could join and work their way up through the ranks. Instead someones standing is elevated by being made a noble by the chancellor for useful service to the state.

Apart from that there is also a caste system in place, which pretty much goes against communists beliefs that everyone is equal.

Also the power to relocate populations and professions to where the state requires them to go is something that was very commonly decreed by kings in the past.

If you take all these elements together you find that the CapCon resembles much more a futuristic Han Dynasty China then a communistic dictatorship. In the wiki for the "Society and culture of the Han Dynasty" one can find some striking similarities between the CapCon and the Han Dynasty china.

But even with those similarities the CapCon like the other successor states are more then just what they are often generalized as. And I think that is part of the charm of the Battletech universe, while you can find familiar elements from our world and history it is in the end still pretty unique. I mean come on having all that nobility stuff in it is pretty cool, it spices things up with all the intrigue, feuds and succession game. Its not that much unlike Game of Thrones in that regard, with different noble houses trying to make their mark.

#11 Haydin

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:07 AM

Also very important to stress - Romano Liao is the current chancellor in 3049, and the confederation is in a very, very bad place right now - up until her death and the ascension of Sun-Tzu House Liao was pretty much on the verge of collapse from two generations of getting pummeled in the succession wars and the management of a ruling family that began going insane.

Maximilian, Romano's father, started going off the deep end later on in life. Romano, however, is all kinds of crazy and orders regular purges for little to no reason. She's basically one of the worst rulers in inner sphere history, is extremely volatile, not well rooted in reality, and usually cares more about settling grudges than the well being of the confederation.

IIRC, the old Liao sourcebook had a section written by Candace Allard-Liao, Romano's sister and leader of the St. Ives' compact, that the confederation would completely collapse by the mid to late 3050s. These are dark times for space Russo-China.

Edited by Haydin, 10 July 2012 - 10:18 AM.


#12 Haydin

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:16 AM

Eh what the hey I'll cover what Xin Sheg was about too, since that's coming eventually and the excerpts in the OP are from after Romano died and Xin Sheng began.

XIN SHENG

The OP's quote is from 3067 - after Romano's death and Sun Tzu's ascendancy to the throne. It was also during the height of Sun Tzu's Xin Sheng (New Birth) movement - a bit of a gamble he took to rapidly turn the confederation from near collapse to as major a successor state as any other. This included him increasing taxes (especially on wealthier worlds) in order to try to support the mass of poorer citizens and inspire a resurgence of national pride - something that's always been especially strong within the confederation but had lessened considerably under his mother's rule.

It was also during Xin Sheng that Sun Tzu managed to retake a huge number of worlds lost during the succession wars (including the splinter-state St.Ives) commission new, top of the line military hardware and production facilities with help from the Free Worlds League, Comstar, and Word of Blake.

This meant that the Capellan people, for the first time in decades (and for many, for the first time in their entire life) had not only a sudden surge in quality of life, but also had incredible military success that reversed losses suffered over generations in just a few years. It also involved making the confederation a more welcoming place to outsiders, as Sun Tzu created a number of valuable national alliances (including one with the Marian Hegemony and Magistracy of Canopus, two major periphery states), as well as officially welcoming some longtime partners, such as the mercenary unit Macarron's Armored Cavalry, officially into the ranks of the Confederation - complete with nobility and officer status for its leaders.

There was a huge surge of capellan productivity and pride with all of this, as well as a major interest in chinese han dynasty culture (which the confederation can trace its roots too). Even the large number of Capellans that didn't have ancestral ties to china still celebrated their nation's heritage, though Sun Tzu did do a lot of pushing for "pan-Capellan unity" to discourage exclusivity and help make sure the focus stayed on celebrating the nation's roots.

Basically, you can think of what happened within Capellan Confederation as something similar to a post-WWI Germany being led by the roman emperor nero on extra-crazy pills suddenly turning around with the next generation, which was not only able to recoup the nation's previous losses, but was also able to trigger a surge in increased quality of life, national productivity and new international alliances while also ushering in a cultural renaissance that was carefully guided to create as positive an atmosphere for the capellan citizenry as possible.

Edited by Haydin, 10 July 2012 - 10:17 AM.


#13 Vandal

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:39 PM

View PostHaydin, on 10 July 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

IIRC, the old Liao sourcebook had a section written by Candace Allard-Liao, Romano's sister and leader of the St. Ives' compact, that the confederation would completely collapse by the mid to late 3050s. These are dark times for space Russo-China.


That's 20 Year Update, all of the house Sourcebooks ended before the fourth succession war, so it lists Max as still being sane and in charge.

#14 Felix Drummond

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 07:49 PM

Good write up about Xin Sheng Haydin!

Just regarding two passages of your posts I'd like to clarify a couple of things:

Quote

Eh what the hey I'll cover what Xin Sheg was about too, since that's coming eventually and the excerpts in the OP are from after Romano died and Xin Sheng began.

XIN SHENG

The OP's quote is from 3067 - after Romano's death and Sun Tzu's ascendancy to the throne. 1


While the new House Liao source book indeed covers the Capellan Confederation up until the year 3067, the section I quoted is in fact nearly entirely applicable to what the Capellan Confederation society was like before Sun Tzu Liao became Chancellor.

The only parts that really differ are the drastic changes that Xin Sheng brought to the Servitor caste and the indication of the forming of the new warrior caste Janshi.

Quote

Also very important to stress - Romano Liao is the current chancellor in 3049, and the confederation is in a very, very bad place right now - up until her death and the ascension of Sun-Tzu House Liao was pretty much on the verge of collapse from two generations of getting pummeled in the succession wars and the management of a ruling family that began going insane.

Maximilian, Romano's father, started going off the deep end later on in life. Romano, however, is all kinds of crazy and orders regular purges for little to no reason. She's basically one of the worst rulers in inner sphere history, is extremely volatile, not well rooted in reality, and usually cares more about settling grudges than the well being of the confederation.

IIRC, the old Liao sourcebook had a section written by Candace Allard-Liao, Romano's sister and leader of the St. Ives' compact, that the confederation would completely collapse by the mid to late 3050s. These are dark times for space Russo-China.


I hear very often how people decry Romano as being a terrible leader and that she did the Confederation no favor with her reign. Everyone likes to glorify Sun Tzu and yes he fully deserves that glory, but it was his Mother that laid down the foundation upon which he rebuild the Capellan Confederation.

She inherited a completely shattered realm, shell shocked by the fourth succession war and managed somehow to hold it all together and even drive back and defeat the Andurien-Canopus invasion with the meager remaining forces of the CCAF. She began the process of rebuilding and strengthening the realm to lay that vital foundation for her son's reforms which let the Confederation into a new prosperous era.

And in the timeline, in which MWonline begins the Capellan Confederation is not in nearly as bad shape as everyone always says, most of the toughest years of Romanos reign have already past by 3049 and with the upcoming clan invasion inbound the constant threat of a new Davion invasion lessens immensely. While things are still tough and bleak its nothing like what it was during the first decade after the fourth succession war.

So while I personally think that Romano was far from an ideal leader, I do respect her for keeping the Confederation alive, when a weaker leader might have seen its ultimate demise, Sometimes hard times call for an even harder leader. (That is as much as you can say that about a fictional character. I guess that would be my InCharacter thoughts lol).

I'd like to summarize this statement with another small quote from the new House Liao source book which sums it all pretty well up:

All rights and credits of the following text from the House Liao sourcebook belong to Catalyst Game Labs.

Quote

Romano the Mad?

There have been comparisons, mostly in the foreign press, of Romano Liao
to her infamous ancestor, Kalvin Liao. Most of her detractors point to her bloody
purges, frequent bouts of anger and paranoia, and her impulsiveness in setting
policy as signs that Mad Kalvin had passed his insanity down to Maximilian’s
youngest daughter. And while by any sane standard many of her actions did
verge on the crazy, the results they brought cannot be disputed. The harsh hand
of Romano Liao welded the Confederation back together well enough to resist
the Andurien-Canopus invasion in the early 3030s. Her management of the
Maskirovka through her consort, Tsen Shang, was competent enough that few
foreign agents could infiltrate that organization before 3040. Her management
of the military, perhaps the bloodiest operation of her reign, resulted in a solid
core of loyal veterans that took the fresh crop of academy graduates and recruits
and turned them into a solid fighting organization.
So, yes—perhaps she did have a touch of madness. But there was a method
to it, and that method saved the Confederation from near-certain destruction
at the hands the Anduriens, the Canopians and even the weakest members of
Capellan society who might rather have just rolled over and died.

—From Romano Ascendant, Sian University Press, 3054

Edited by Felidae, 10 July 2012 - 07:57 PM.


#15 Vandal

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:11 AM

Those passages bother me because they pretty much take the stance of Mussolini and the Trains. I.E., They saved the country so their mass murder of civilians is perfectly okay, they were just a little bit crazy, yeah?

No. No it isn't!

They were terrible leaders, saving the confederation is not a good price to pay for the constant bloody purges. A capable leader could have easily held the State together without mass murder! Romano's purges were not the glue that held the state together, they were the acts of a terrified madwoman afraid of her own shadow.

#16 Felix Drummond

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 03:02 PM

View PostVandal, on 11 July 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

Those passages bother me because they pretty much take the stance of Mussolini and the Trains. I.E., They saved the country so their mass murder of civilians is perfectly okay, they were just a little bit crazy, yeah?

No. No it isn't!

They were terrible leaders, saving the confederation is not a good price to pay for the constant bloody purges. A capable leader could have easily held the State together without mass murder! Romano's purges were not the glue that held the state together, they were the acts of a terrified madwoman afraid of her own shadow.


Friend, your opinion is valid and I can see the humanistic reasoning behind it, but it is easier said then done I think.
Speaking hypothetical, if Romano would have been a different person, a leader that was capable in your eyes, what should she have done to keep the Capellan Confederation alive as an independent realm with a strong enough military to defend itself?
A realm that preserves its identity and does not simply become a satellite state to the FedCom.

#17 Vandal

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:26 PM

Not having a lot of people brutally murdered, tortured and executed is usually a good place to start vis a vis 'being a good leader.'

Edited by Vandal, 11 July 2012 - 08:26 PM.


#18 IMTatsu

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:58 PM

View PostVandal, on 11 July 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Not having a lot of people brutally murdered, tortured and executed is usually a good place to start vis a vis 'being a good leader.'

Definately not a pretty method, but history has proven it effective. Don't confuse 'Good' with 'Effective'. Read some Machiavelli. The best methods to correct the path of a given civilization are rarely the most popular, or ethical.

>:{

Edited by IMTatsu, 11 July 2012 - 08:58 PM.


#19 Vandal

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:17 PM

History has actually looked pretty poorly upon people who resorted to mass murder and ethnic genocide, all things considered.

Edited by Vandal, 11 July 2012 - 09:19 PM.


#20 IMTatsu

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 04:11 AM

I wouldn't put Romano in the same category as Hitler or Khan in the genocide column . . . There's been some purging (read as 'cleansing') of the ranks, so I guess you could technically paint that as murder en masse . . .

I'm not trying to split hairs. Romano is not a nice person. And again, I'm not calling her one.

Romano adopted a bit of an abortion-in-progress, when she succeeded Max. Where before have I heard the rhetoric of someone adopting a mess from the former administration . . . But I digress . . .

All I'm saying is with a very thin set of options set before her at the time, and with everything else that could be said or pointed out about her, she kept the House together, and set the stage for Sun Tzu.

Crazy like a fox, maybe, and not the pinky-extended weinerhoeffen Daviot variety, either.

>:{

Edited by IMTatsu, 13 July 2012 - 09:21 PM.






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