29 replies to this topic

[Quxudica]

Everytime we launch we see the readout of info on whatever nameless contextless space we will be killing eachother in. The readout shows us temperature data, gravity and surface water. What if there was more to it than that. What if more than just temperature made a difference to us.

What if planets had unique properties, electrical storms that messed with lock ons and uav spotting, severe wind that messed with ballistics, high or low gravity that affected fall damage, jump jet flight time and even movement speed. Thick atmospheres that reduced energy weapon range, thin or non-existent atmosphere's that increased them. Storms that made support strikes impossible. Maps with non-water rivers that corrode mech armor, slow mech movement, or frozen bodies of water that support light and medium mechs but shatter under the weight of an assault. Tectonic tremors that shake the map periodically, screwing with peoples aim. Meteor Showers that rain down on the map, no damage but visually awesome. There's an endless number of ideas they could use, yet every map except HPG could really just be Earth.

These are alien worlds and it would be so much more interesting if we cared about more than just how hot it was.

It occurred to me on the new Jungle map how much more awesome it would be if the thick fog and plant life screwed with minimap detection for enemy mechs, either reducing range, eliminating it entirely or causing sporadic blips, so that we could only reliably see the other team via visual. As it stands with the magical red box there's little benefit to "hiding" in fog or in foliage, if something isn't physically between you and the enemy you still get highlighted.

Of course such attributes would mess with builds, some might not even be viable. Which is why we should have map selection. Some weapons just do not work in some environments, they aren't meant to work in them and it's a part of the concept behind a "Thinking Man's Shooter" which MWO was touted as originally. You don't bring an MRLS into a place like the Jungle map, just like you don't bring a shotgun to something like Alpine. Every other shooter has this concept, you look at the map and decide what to outfit yourself with. MWO seems terrified of giving that control to the players however under the misguided assumption that it would destroy the games balance. I'd argue that, if knowing where you are dropping is enough to destroy the games balance, then something is already horribly wrong - either with your weapons or with your map design.

Negative and positive planetary attributes beyond heat would help give character to the battles, make it feel like a real place instead of just "Nameless Arenas #1 - 12". The new map could have a real vietnam vibe to it, but with the lack of characterization it's really just every other heat neutral map with new paint. Mono-tone green this time instead of brown or grey.

[Lily from animove]

why does thick athmosphere only reduce energy wepaon range?

[Quxudica]

Lily from animove, on 19 November 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

why does thick athmosphere only reduce energy wepaon range?

Lasers dissipate in an atmosphere, it's the reasoning behind there in game damage fall off in fact, a thicker atmosphere would turn them into flashlights even faster. You could argue thick atmosphere's would affect the ballistic characteristics of projectiles (missiles and shells) but it depends on how complex you want to get. MWO really doesn't have much of a ballistic system, bullet drop and windage aren't really things here, but you could make it affect them if you wanted too.

The OP examples are just examples. There's so much they could be doing with the settings that they just.. aren't doing.. It's a tad depressing really.

Edited by Quxudica, 19 November 2014 - 07:01 AM.

[Flamberg]

You know, these are some great ideas. The general idea of possibility to prepare your loadout in accordance with expected environmental constraits would move MWO experience more in a way of Mechwarrior PC games - there, in campaign you had some general idea what to expect in the upcoming mission and could play your setup accordingly.

Maybe in some next next version of CW, we would see it (where I also someday expect real campaigns - limited resources, results of one battle directly impact the folowing missions...)

[Blakkstar]

Expect it to happen as CW progresses. Dropping on known maps with unique modifiers means more builds are needed, which means more $$ spent on weapons and equipment per chassis. Classic MMO currency sink.

[Escef]

Good ideas, but right now PGI has its plate full. Between getting CW out the door, finishing the Wave II pack, Resistance pack, King Crab, and getting a "real" new player experience into the game (and maybe Steam after that?) they have a hell of a dev schedule.

So, yeah, all kinds of stuff that would be interesting to see, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.

[Lily from animove]

Flamberg, on 19 November 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

You know, these are some great ideas. The general idea of possibility to prepare your loadout in accordance with expected environmental constraits would move MWO experience more in a way of Mechwarrior PC games - there, in campaign you had some general idea what to expect in the upcoming mission and could play your setup accordingly.

Maybe in some next next version of CW, we would see it (where I also someday expect real campaigns - limited resources, results of one battle directly impact the folowing missions...)

Then we get infinite laserrange on HPG? yeah lemme get those 12 small clanpulselasers on my nova. :trollface:

[CDLord HHGD]

Lily from animove, on 19 November 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Then we get infinite laserrange on HPG? yeah lemme get those 12 small clanpulselasers on my nova. :trollface:

There'd still be particles interfering with the beam. Atmosphere doesn't just mean a place to pop your canopy and breathe deeply...

[verybad]

This woudl be the map to end all maps. If you mechdance onto the blinking floor light, then you get a bonus based on the color of the light...for profit!

[CDLord HHGD]

verybad, on 19 November 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

This woudl be the map to end all maps. If you mechdance onto the blinking floor light, then you get a bonus based on the color of the light...for profit!

[verybad]

cdlord, on 19 November 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.

Hah, try and back out from that now!

[CDLord HHGD]

verybad, on 19 November 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.

Hah, try and back out from that now!

Ummm... okayyyy...

I just thought it was a cool rendition of the classic meme.... Whether it applies 100%? Depends on how it makes you feel.

[Joseph Mallan]

Quxudica, on 19 November 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

Lasers dissipate in an atmosphere, it's the reasoning behind there in game damage fall off in fact, a thicker atmosphere would turn them into flashlights even faster. You could argue thick atmosphere's would affect the ballistic characteristics of projectiles (missiles and shells) but it depends on how complex you want to get. MWO really doesn't have much of a ballistic system, bullet drop and windage aren't really things here, but you could make it affect them if you wanted too.

The OP examples are just examples. There's so much they could be doing with the settings that they just.. aren't doing.. It's a tad depressing really.

and denser Atmosphere would cause ballistics to lose velocity quicker and missiles to burn more fuel to reach shorter ranges.

[verybad]

cdlord, on 19 November 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Ummm... okayyyy...

I just thought it was a cool rendition of the classic meme.... Whether it applies 100%? Depends on how it makes you feel.

Ohh it applies, it applies 110% !

[Joseph Mallan]

verybad, on 19 November 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.

Hah, try and back out from that now!

Hows rubber fair against a flamethrower Skippy?

[Mitsuragi]

verybad, on 19 November 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

This woudl be the map to end all maps. If you mechdance onto the blinking floor light, then you get a bonus based on the color of the light...for profit!

...nifty image...

Ooo ooo I want to play!

[Rebas Kradd]

Quxudica, on 19 November 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Everytime we launch we see the readout of info on whatever nameless contextless space we will be killing eachother in. The readout shows us temperature data, gravity and surface water. What if there was more to it than that. What if more than just temperature made a difference to us.

What if planets had unique properties, electrical storms that messed with lock ons and uav spotting, severe wind that messed with ballistics, high or low gravity that affected fall damage, jump jet flight time and even movement speed. Thick atmospheres that reduced energy weapon range, thin or non-existent atmosphere's that increased them. Storms that made support strikes impossible. Maps with non-water rivers that corrode mech armor, slow mech movement, or frozen bodies of water that support light and medium mechs but shatter under the weight of an assault. Tectonic tremors that shake the map periodically, screwing with peoples aim. Meteor Showers that rain down on the map, no damage but visually awesome. There's an endless number of ideas they could use, yet every map except HPG could really just be Earth.

These are alien worlds and it would be so much more interesting if we cared about more than just how hot it was.

It'd be a lot more interesting to the minority that wants everything to be complicated and realistic as possible; it'd be infuriating and maddening to the rank-and-file player who just wants to play the game. The complaints would be epic.

You've already got people complaining that they can't choose a mech before they know the map. What makes you think people would be hunky-dory having their build messed with by the environment?

Everyone wants their game to be Martin Scorcese. Michael Bay makes more money.

[verybad]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Hows rubber fair against a flamethrower Skippy?

Better than glue Smokey!

[Almond Brown]

Rebas Kradd, on 19 November 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

It'd be a lot more interesting to the minority that wants everything to be complicated and realistic as possible; it'd be infuriating and maddening to the rank-and-file player who just wants to play the game. The complaints would be epic.

You've already got people complaining that they can't choose a mech before they know the map. What makes you think people would be hunky-dory having their build messed with by the environment?

Everyone wants their game to be Martin Scorcese. Michael Bay makes more money.

Yup, no worries about having Electrical Storms rage across the Map, especially when you are about to get a kill shot and a lightning bolt hits your Mech, shorts out all your systems (a shut down event without your input) and you die to return fire instead.

Yup, that would be super duper coming out of your pooper Okee dokee around here.

P.S. Think Frames per Minute...

[Quxudica]

Rebas Kradd, on 19 November 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

It'd be a lot more interesting to the minority that wants everything to be complicated and realistic as possible; it'd be infuriating and maddening to the rank-and-file player who just wants to play the game. The complaints would be epic.

You've already got people complaining that they can't choose a mech before they know the map. What makes you think people would be hunky-dory having their build messed with by the environment?

Everyone wants their game to be Martin Scorcese. Michael Bay makes more money.

I specifically said it would depreciate the value of some builds on certain maps and make others virtually useless and thus we would need either map selection, or post launch mech selection. You would have to put thought into your builds with the environment in mind, instead of just winging it and being generally sure whatever you use will work. I'd also say MWO is already a more complex beast than your standard shooter, it would not be that hard a concept for someone to understand some maps work better with some mechs, especially considering this is already the case we just have no way of controlling it.

Playing to the lowest common denominator gets you some cash in the short term, but it doesn't last forever. As a mech sim, even a lite one, MWO is already past the point of being a "Bay" style game. It's just done things in half measures instead of taking advantage of its settings potential.

Lily from animove, on 19 November 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Then we get infinite laserrange on HPG? yeah lemme get those 12 small clanpulselasers on my nova. :trollface:

They would go further with the same amount of wattage powering them, but they'd still lose sufficient intensity to be considered weaponized eventually.

Almond Brown, on 19 November 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Yup, no worries about having Electrical Storms rage across the Map, especially when you are about to get a kill shot and a lightning bolt hits your Mech, shorts out all your systems (a shut down event without your input) and you die to return fire instead.



Yup, that would be super duper coming out of your pooper Okee dokee around here.



P.S. Think Frames per Minute...

A lightning bolt can strike a passenger plane without anyone on board noticing, I'm sure futuristic scifi death robots would be fine. None of my suggestions, aside from corrosive liquid pools and rivers, said anything about dealing direct damage to mechs or causing shut downs. The only thing I mentioned electrical storms doing was messing with radar and targeting.

Edited by Quxudica, 19 November 2014 - 11:36 AM.