23 replies to this topic

[Graugger]

Watching people playing this and running from the first mech they see or when the first laser shoots past their mech I have to wonder if the name of this game is incorrect. It certainly seems like a lot of people want to run rather than shoot and more often than not it reflects in their scores.

Seriously, I've seen Warhawks / Atlas's with more armor in their backs than their fronts and they spend more time "trying" to run than fighting at which point they end up with like 75-130 Damage... Meanwhile you have Stormcrows and Novas on the other team getting 350 - 700 damage.

This is a shooter game right, not Hello Kitty Island?

It's getting to the point you're safer dropping your own teammates so they don't draw the enemy out and cause them to target you. ELOs may be balanced between teams but it needs to be team members as well.

Edited by Graugger, 23 November 2014 - 05:14 PM.

[Alek Ituin]

So it's not okay for a Light to retreat from an obviously superior foe? Or for a player to stop and wait before charging around the corner, presumably to their imminent demise? Because quite obviously, if there's weapons fire, there's a Mech. And charging in to a bigger Mech, or multiple Mechs, is most often suicide. If one wishes to avoid being violently murdered by enemy Mechs, what does one do? That's right boys and girls, they retreat from combat!

Your complaint post is poorly worded and vague. It gives off the impression that you find all retreat in any situation to be intolerable, and would like this game to become little more than "Metal Grinder TDM Fest: Online". In addition, you give the impression that retreating in any situation makes you a bad player.

Word of the wise: If you're going to complain about something, clearly define why and how it bothers you enough to complain about it.

[R Razor]

Alek Ituin, on 23 November 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

So it's not okay for a Light to retreat from an obviously superior foe? Or for a player to stop and wait before charging around the corner, presumably to their imminent demise? Because quite obviously, if there's weapons fire, there's a Mech. And charging in to a bigger Mech, or multiple Mechs, is most often suicide. If one wishes to avoid being violently murdered by enemy Mechs, what does one do? That's right boys and girls, they retreat from combat!

Your complaint post is poorly worded and vague. It gives off the impression that you find all retreat in any situation to be intolerable, and would like this game to become little more than "Metal Grinder TDM Fest: Online". In addition, you give the impression that retreating in any situation makes you a bad player.

Word of the wise: If you're going to complain about something, clearly define why and how it bothers you enough to complain about it.

I think he probably presumed a modicum of common sense on the part of the folks reading the post............

Obviously retreating from superior numbers in order to stay in the fight is slightly different than running and hiding and trying to stay alive while your team gets hammered since you've already gotten your 1 kill and 1 assist. Surely you understood that right?

[Alek Ituin]

R Razor, on 23 November 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

I think he probably presumed a modicum of common sense on the part of the folks reading the post............

Obviously retreating from superior numbers in order to stay in the fight is slightly different than running and hiding and trying to stay alive while your team gets hammered since you've already gotten your 1 kill and 1 assist. Surely you understood that right?

If you're going to complain about retreating, make it clear who you're pointing out. Blanket statements and assumptions are unhelpful for just about anything. Also, you know what they say about assumptions, right? You must.

I understood his point perfectly, in fact, I mirror the sentiment. If you've got support, push in and fight, don't retreat and get picked off by snipers. But I don't make vague complaint posts, giving off the impression that all retreat is in poor form. Surely you must understand how that works, right?

[RazorbeastFXK3]

Not too bad of an observation but it doesn't apply often enough to put the entire population into that category. There are players who will blatantly run out into the open to draw enemy fire, exposing the opposition so the rest of the team can act (if they're paying attention) accordingly.

It's too easy to turn a corner and end up getting slaughtered by 3 or more opponents laying in wait for that opportunity to arise. Players are becoming more and more familiar with the maps, strike points, ambush areas, work-arounds and the like to change up the "common strategies" that the opposing team may be expecting to face. For instance, Caustic Valley, I'm starting to see more "let's circle around the crater and do a sweep to catch them off guard" instead of "let's just sit here and play whack-a-mole."

You also have to take into consideration that not everyone you drop with has played for as long as you have and since we are still getting new recruits joining our ranks you will come across players who are more jumpier than others when they're surprised by brawlers and snipers.

I'm rather happy that there isn't a time stamp above the names of all our team mates showing how "fresh" or how "stale" they may be dealing with this game. But yeah.. not everyone has the same mindset as you have 'cause if everyone acted the same way.. the battles wouldn't be as random as they are now.

Graugger, on 23 November 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

Watching people playing this and running from the first mech they see or when the first laser shoots past their mech I have to wonder if the name of this game is incorrect. It certainly seems like a lot of people want to run rather than shoot and more often than not it reflects in their scores.

Seriously, I've seen Warhawks / Atlas's with more armor in their backs than their fronts and they spend more time "trying" to run than fighting at which point they end up with like 75-130 Damage... Meanwhile you have Stormcrows and Novas on the other team getting 350 - 700 damage.

This is a shooter game right, not Hello Kitty Island?

It's getting to the point you're safer dropping your own teammates so they don't draw the enemy out and cause them to target you. ELOs may be balanced between teams but it needs to be team members as well.

[Johnny Slam]

Graugger, on 23 November 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

Watching people playing this and running from the first mech they see or when the first laser shoots past their mech I have to wonder if the name of this game is incorrect. It certainly seems like a lot of people want to run rather than shoot and more often than not it reflects in their scores.

Seriously, I've seen Warhawks / Atlas's with more armor in their backs than their fronts and they spend more time "trying" to run than fighting at which point they end up with like 75-130 Damage... Meanwhile you have Stormcrows and Novas on the other team getting 350 - 700 damage.

This is a shooter game right, not Hello Kitty Island?

It's getting to the point you're safer dropping your own teammates so they don't draw the enemy out and cause them to target you. ELOs may be balanced between teams but it needs to be team members as well.

Ha ha! this is funny! it's called mechwarrior not Mechbanzai, or Mechbrainlesssacrifice, or Mechchargedummy, or Mechnoconsequence, or Mechetitledtoreward.

[Novakaine]

Seen this crap for the past two years.
At the first couple of laser hits I see heavies and assaults running away from the front.
And I'm in a Stalker i'm not going anywhere fast.
Normally I just drop arty and just blow thru best I can.
I just became the lead mech.
But that's what I get for playing in the terribad que.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Novakaine, on 23 November 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Seen this crap for the past two years.
At the first couple of laser hits I see heavies and assaults running away from the front.
And I'm in a Stalker i'm not going anywhere fast.
Normally I just drop arty and just blow thru best I can.
I just became the lead mech.
But that's what I get for playing in the terribad que.

thats cuz there isnt a front......those heavies and assaults round the corner, take a few hits and see the 10 mechs behind the 1 that shot them.....If this game wasnt about a big deathball, you would probably see more assaults standing and fighting, but not even an assault can stand up to 8 other mechs...

[mindwarp]

Assaults also attract the worst pilots - they go straight for the biggest mech with the most guns and then cry because people won't stand still in front of them to be shot. Not all assault pilots of course, but there's a lot more bad assault pilots than any other weight class. It's also why you mostly see meta assaults - bad pilots copying the meta instead of working out the build that works best for them, or even understanding how to use the meta build.. Light mech pilots tend to be either really good, or total masochists.

[Kiiyor]

A DireWolf or MetaMadCat can almost one shot any medium or light, even some heavies. Two DireWolves can utterly ruin any one mech they see.

Don't mistake a healthy dose of caution for cowardice. I've seen innumerable matches won in the first salvo because someone wandered in front of two or more enemy mechs, and was blown to pieces before they even realized the monumental mistake they made in venturing out of cover.

If i'm in any mech lighter than a heavy, I will move heaven and earth to make sure i'm not the enemy team's Alpha. Echo or Foxtrot is where it's at.

[YueFei]

LordKnightFandragon, on 23 November 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

thats cuz there isnt a front......those heavies and assaults round the corner, take a few hits and see the 10 mechs behind the 1 that shot them.....If this game wasnt about a big deathball, you would probably see more assaults standing and fighting, but not even an assault can stand up to 8 other mechs...

That's supposedly why the Light class of mechs exist, so that they can scout out corners and ridgelines before you ask the Assault mech pilots to peek or push out.

Frankly, an Assault mech *should* die if focused by 8+ enemy mechs.

[Bongo TauKat]

Atlas backs from fire.
Firestarter circles rear.
Mech dies from behind.

Edited by Bongo TauKat Talasko, 24 November 2014 - 03:24 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Graugger, on 23 November 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

Watching people playing this and running from the first mech they see or when the first laser shoots past their mech I have to wonder if the name of this game is incorrect. It certainly seems like a lot of people want to run rather than shoot and more often than not it reflects in their scores.

Seriously, I've seen Warhawks / Atlas's with more armor in their backs than their fronts and they spend more time "trying" to run than fighting at which point they end up with like 75-130 Damage... Meanwhile you have Stormcrows and Novas on the other team getting 350 - 700 damage.

This is a shooter game right, not Hello Kitty Island?

It's getting to the point you're safer dropping your own teammates so they don't draw the enemy out and cause them to target you. ELOs may be balanced between teams but it needs to be team members as well.

I see Dire/Timber Wolves do this EVERY day... no Joke, Timber Wolf takes fire backs up... FROM A BLACKJACK!

[Tekadept]

Those are the COD players, you know in COD games, you run around a corner see somebody and RUN randomly spraying rounds everywhere. Some people just don't realise that doesn't translate to MWO.

it seems COD players are PGI's current target audience though, so what can they do to make that style of play more fun for these types of players??

Edited by Tekadept, 24 November 2014 - 05:12 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

[Royal Wallace]

People are just trying to play the tourney with the rules they are given. A good side effect ive seen is that people are sharring kills at t he end of games. That is pretty awesome.

[Mott]

In general... the new retreat and fade and find cover tactics don't bother me. I mean, really, in BT lore (or any type of warfare) would you ever really see groups of people or mechanized units deathball into concentrated enemy fire and "just die" because their idiot mates behind want to also pop off a few shots before being killed?

The problem is the lack of cohesion... 1 or 2 decide to push, take all the fire and get no support. Turn and run and hide. Then 2 more do it and maybe die because others have piled up behind them and there's no place for them to retreat. At the same time a couple other teammates are performing an ill-timed flank, but haven't notified their team, so it fails and they die.

I LIKE people being more cautious and trying to stay alive... i just don't like how PUGs tend to do it.

Edited by Mott, 24 November 2014 - 06:14 AM.

[Abisha]

retreat is a validated tactic.
the whole History is based on this.

[YueFei]

Mott, on 24 November 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

In general... the new retreat and fade and find cover tactics don't bother me. I mean, really, in BT lore (or any type of warfare) would you ever really see groups of people or mechanized units deathball into concentrated enemy fire and "just die" because their idiot mates behind want to also pop off a few shots before being killed?

The problem is the lack of cohesion... 1 or 2 decide to push, take all the fire and get no support. Turn and run and hide. Then 2 more do it and maybe die because others have piled up behind them and there's no place for them to retreat. At the same time a couple other teammates are performing an ill-timed flank, but haven't notified their team, so it fails and they die.

I LIKE people being more cautious and trying to stay alive... i just don't like how PUGs tend to do it.

Maybe one thing PUGs can do is to try to synchronize when EVERYONE will step out on the line and shoot. An easy way to do this would be to agree on a game clock count to go at. For example, everyone agrees to step out and shoot whenever the one's digit of the seconds count reaches 5 or 0. Or 7 and 2, or 9 and 4, etc. Intervals of 5 seconds would probably work best.

That way you put up somewhat concerted shocks of firepower downrange.

Anyone who is starting to get serious damage can delay their emergence by 1 second or so, letting other teammates go first and tank hits.

[Harime Nui]

mindwarp, on 23 November 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

Assaults also attract the worst pilots - they go straight for the biggest mech with the most guns and then cry because people won't stand still in front of them to be shot. Not all assault pilots of course, but there's a lot more bad assault pilots than any other weight class. It's also why you mostly see meta assaults - bad pilots copying the meta instead of working out the build that works best for them, or even understanding how to use the meta build.. Light mech pilots tend to be either really good, or total masochists.

Nope. They attract those who "wear" 4-6xSRM6, twingoose or AC40... just cause you can't miss the large slow target. Tell me how bad I am when in my last battle I did -5 and 4 of those 5 was a whole assault lance fitted with AS7-DDC, 2xDWF and just one lone timber.
4xSRM6 FTW DOES MATTER... D00D.

Edited by Harime Nui, 24 November 2014 - 06:30 AM.