185 replies to this topic

[Ratfriend]

well the point is the minimum ammount of shots for just a chance at killing someone with ac-2 is 5 because 5 head hits will go internal damage but have you ever tried hitting someone in the head? also at very long range its near impossible just to hit 1 time but 5? well lets just say someone that manages to hit 5 times in the head at long range with ac-2 are you using some kind of aimbot cheat or the player is afk and then he deserve to get shot anyway

[Fire for Effect]

I might shed light for what the AC2 is actually used.

Well the AC2 has actually usage but that is mostly beyond the scope of this game. It is often used as Anti-Air Weapon against VTOLs and Airplanes in the TT. Called Shots to the head were also quite unpleasent with any weapon since it unsettles the hit mechwarrior and the weapons range of the AC2 almost always guaranteed that you were in the short or medium range band.

Since a commanders option are airstrikes, drones and other goodies to have an AC2 equipped Mech in your team might be useful to counter these annoyances if that is to be possible. You can also always use the Ultra variant that 4 points of damage in one round (10 seconds).
It is unlikely that you have to spit out bullets for 10 seconds recycle time will be that long meaning you press the button for firing this baby once or twice in 10 seconds..


The devs have stated numerous times that they will stay very close to the original boardgame.

[Kraven Kor]

Ratfriend, on 29 June 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

well the point is the minimum ammount of shots for just a chance at killing someone with ac-2 is 5 because 5 head hits will go internal damage but have you ever tried hitting someone in the head? also at very long range its near impossible just to hit 1 time but 5? well lets just say someone that manages to hit 5 times in the head at long range with ac-2 are you using some kind of aimbot cheat or the player is afk and then he deserve to get shot anyway

I gaurantee you I will be owning people with AC-2's. Just as soon as they add the Mauler

[Argann]

What year was the Rotary AC2 implemented?

[RedBelly Devega]

Sorry have i miss the point here, its a gun long range don't get in front off, truth is if
their hit you. you know area they are, than u go left right up down cuase they not there

Ghost hehe woops
No keep AC2

Edited by RedBelly Devega, 30 June 2012 - 12:33 AM.

[Sky walker]

Ratfriend, on 29 June 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

well the point is the minimum ammount of shots for just a chance at killing someone with ac-2 is 5 because 5 head hits will go internal damage but have you ever tried hitting someone in the head? also at very long range its near impossible just to hit 1 time but 5? well lets just say someone that manages to hit 5 times in the head at long range with ac-2 are you using some kind of aimbot cheat or the player is afk and then he deserve to get shot anyway

It is perfectly possible by a player withouth aimbots.
1. Find LRM Camper (usually a newbie players do that or just noobs)
2. Find good angle, so you wouldn't be obvious target to fire back
3. Know when he operates in zoom mode
4. zoom in, aim, fire!
5. ...
6. profit!

I did similar things in MWLL multiple times, and out there maps are enormous and targets at maximum range tend to be really, really tiny comparing to anything I seen in MWO so far. With ACs it is tricky, but with a good stack of them - it's perfectly doable.

Argann, on 29 June 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

What year was the Rotary AC2 implemented?

3062

Edited by Sky walker, 30 June 2012 - 01:06 AM.

[Scimitar]

How about no...

I mean really, it can be useful in the right hands. I like to pop a low calibre auto cannon on my mech if I have the tonnage for it. Plus, yes it is in battletech and that's a pretty good reason to keep it too.

[Citizen Louis]

The AC2 is fun in table top, but I would not go so far as to actually say good. I think it is more of a vehicle weapon in a supporting role vs. vehicles and wounded mechs. I can't wait to use an old tech Mauler next time in table top, or a Pike. I will shoot the biggest nastiest target in range until something sweeter presents itself. The AC2 might even be worth using in the battle value system.... at least on tanks.

If I get killed by an AC2, my hat's off to the mechwarrior who did the undoable

The Rifleman of "Doom," 4 AC2's and an LRM5 ..... nothing else

Don't Ice Hellions have a system of dueling where honour goes to the one who does the first damage?

Keep the AC2

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Spleenslitta, on 26 June 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Yes i do see your point. But imagine this---You've been in a tough fight and your left torso which houses most of your heatsinks and you only remaining long range weapon is protected by a very thin layer of armor.
Which weapon would you fear the most now?
An ER PPC or an AC 2? If somebody misses with an ER PPC their heat will be high and the ER PPC's recycle is long for no gain, but an AC 2 would have a higher firerate and thus be far more dangerous in this case because of it.

And now you're assuming again.
In tabletop (which is used as reference guide for this game), they both fire equally fast.
And in such a case I'd definitely still fear the PPC more.
Should things come to worst, my top speed of 97.2 km/h should keep me safe from most opponents, or at least let me choose who to engage most of the time.

Quote

I will make it a point to load a mech up with ac/2's and find you.

Please do, I'm quite certain that it'll be your downfall, not mine.

Quote

If devs model impact rocking, then the ac/2 will become a much more desirable weapon. Imagine a heavy with 4 ac/2 on it chain firing them to keep the target mech rocking.

I doubt that an AC/2 would have that much impact. Maybe if ten of them hit at the same time.
Two PPCs hitting you, on the other hand, would have about as much effect as ten AC/2s, for only a fraction of the tonnage.

Quote

Also, that ac/20 refire rate is about 5 seconds on that video posted earlier. That immediately eliminates the "2 dmg over ten sceonds" argument. If they scale the ac/2, it seems a refire of 1 second or less would be accurate

Which would also apply to other weapons, like the Large Laser and PPC, with which the AC/2 would be competing.

Quote

There's only one way to settle this.

Bigger fonts.

Nah, I'd say a trial of grievance would be the best way to settle this, like gentlemen.

Quote

Though, I do hope they put in the Rotary AC's at some point. Those things are brutal fun!

Sure, can you wait a decade or two?

Quote

Just saying in your world of standard TT conversion LRM's are maxed at 680M...so him being at 800...still makes you useless .

Him being at 800m would mean he's useless too.
An AC/2 has a range of 24 hexes, so that's 720m.
Also, you got the LRM's wrong, they're limited to 630m, not 680.

Quote

the question is, how new are you? I love the AC/2. sexy lil sniper rifle, put 4 on a mech and have some fun.

Four on a 'Mech... that's 24 tons of AC/s down the hatch with additional tonnage for the ammo...
Probably another 2-3 more tons.

Quote

well the point is the minimum ammount of shots for just a chance at killing someone with ac-2 is 5 because 5 head hits will go internal damage

Six, actually, to completely destroy the head section, since the 5th shot only has about 33% chance to damage one of the criticals, with a further 16.8% chance of hitting the cockpit.

Quote

The Rifleman of "Doom," 4 AC2's and an LRM5 ..... nothing else

Same paper-thin armour, by the looks of it.

[Khan Warlock Kell]

In previous games an all ac-2 boat could be great fun.

Keep the pea shooter, shoot the melon head.

[Falso]

There are no bad weapons, only bad uses.

Battle Tech was around long before any of the MW series of games, and if this version keeps more true to the original TT game, I will be very very happy!


The biggest problems with MMO's in general is lack of variety, if you take away too many choices, too little variety and everyone ends up using the same weapons / tactics that will kill games in short order.


I have been around since the inception of MMO's ( MUD's Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Anarchy Online anyone? ) and have seen this happen time and time again, and I hope there is not going to be too much simplifying of this version, as to take away what makes it a unique experience.


This is one of the things that has made Battle Tech unique, and if the previous game designers had stayed true to the original concepts & designs, I have no doubt the popularity of MW games would not have slacked off, and in part caused the 10 year gap.

NONE of the previous MW PC games got it quite right, the MW2 series particularly MW2 Mercenaries was the closest IMO, MW3 started introducing more "mainstreaming" and MW4 was so horribly over simplified that I didn't even consider buying any of them because they were so far removed from Battle Tech as to make it worthless (and they wonder why the series died )


The concepts that made Battle Tech so unique, and revolutionary seem to be more honestly provided by this game than any previous (the exception being the amazing work by MekTek!! YOU ROCK!!).


I haven't been able to experience the Beta yet, I hope to soon, but the thing about Battle Tech that was/is ALSO so unique, is you almost always DIDN'T have the equipment you wanted available.

Part of what made the game so challenging was having to use what you had!

If all the ballistic weapons you have had available previously were MG's you would be really REALLY happy to get that "crappy" AC 2.


That is what made the game fun, having to salvage mechs you defeated just to keep going, and the idea that technology had degraded over time in ways, (i.e. missiles that doing lock quite as well as they should) because of a sort of "Mad Max" post apocalyptic scenario where you had to learn to use what you have, not just be the best at the best combination of weapons, but good enough to use what you have effectively.

I can understand the sentiment of wanting to have "useless" weapons removed to avoid new people being turned away, but I think it's already been said, every weapon has it's place, and more variety is better than less.

If a weapon is seen to bring things too out of balance, (OP or reverse) then adjust the stats of the weapon.

I have played most of all the versions of "MechWarrior" that have been out since the original Win DOS versions, all the way through some of the console games (Super Nintendo) and after the atrocities committed in MW 3 stripping far too much of the original Battle Tech design, I have only recently DL'd the free version of MW4 Mercenaries to get my fix until MWO is available (Hats off again to MekTek, Smith & Tinker, and now Pirahna Games for all their hard work keeping the MW series alive!) and this along with MW Tactics seem to provide some of the most true to Battle Tech games to date, and it has been a LONG time coming since it all started in the early 80's.

I still remember those great TT games of Battle Tech with my friend Tony in middle school, here's hoping MWOnline finally gets it right!

[Davoke]

Future Perfect, on 26 June 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

The problem is the masses of new players who doesn't know the crappiness of the AC/2.

Keeping the new players happy, playing and paying is the success of MechWarrior Online.

Are you getting my point?

The only thing they won't be happy about is when i stack a bunch them and go passive on them.
They will learn to fear the AC/2

[Davoke]

Kael Tropheus, on 26 June 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

Oh and I didnt assume a light mech. The highest armor any mech can have in the head is 8 points plus 3 of internal structure, from a locust to an Atlas, thats why a clan PPC or Gauss to the cockpit is an instant death hit.. Four hits from an AC2 to the head and no armor. 2 more and dead head. Rate of fire will likely be much higher for the lighter less damaging weapons. I wouldnt be surpised if it fires every 2 seconds.

The AC/2's fire-rate will likely be about one shot every second, maybe even as little as one shot per .7 seconds.

[CutterWolf]

The entire point of any post at this point in time about removal or adding in "ANY" weapon system is moot. Why? the game is not even out yet so no one other than the beta testers or Dev's can give any "real" feed back. End of conversation period.............

[Future Perfect]

Davoke, on 01 July 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

The AC/2's fire-rate will likely be about one shot every second, maybe even as little as one shot per .7 seconds.

Some people thinks that it will fire like a M16 or something as in 800+ rounds per minute.

Edited by Future Perfect, 01 July 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[Aeryk Corsaer]

As a BT "truest", all weapon OPTIONS should stay in the game. Every weapon has its use in certain circumstances and warranted based on the skill and abilities of the pilot. I have been in games where either JaegerMechs or more often in my case, swift moving 35-45 ton mechs with one or two AC2 with plenty of ammo harassed and won fights with heavier, slower designs. The AC2 can be effective if utilized properly but will never be 'flashy' or a quick kill weapon in most cases. It is all on how the user tries to use it. A 35 ton Jenner or Raven with an AC2 fighting a 50 ton Hunchback can defeat it in relative open terrain by flanking and peppering its back while staying well out of range of every weapon in the Hunchbacks arsenal. Tactics is all about using what you have...

[ArctykWolf]

Future Perfect, on 26 June 2012 - 02:49 AM, said:

Everything that causes frustration for the new player should be removed from the game and that some fans wants it to remain is moot.

This is just common sense 101.

Your posts are without merit and literally pointless. New players will be frustrated by many things not just a weapon so in effect your telling them to remove the game entirely, which is the stupidest thing I've heard on these forums yet.

As for your comment on fans of the game.....yes fans of the game have their favorite aspects and also the ones that annoy them to no end. The A/C 2 isn't a fan item and if you even played any of the board or PC games and had any reasonable skill you'd automatically know the effectiveness of said weapon leaving your whole string of comments moot.

Every weapon has a purpose and strategic use, running around with just big weapons and pushing the bonzai button repeatedly will not work in this game. A light or even medium Mech with a pair of A/C 2's will chew you up at range especially while your worrying more about that large mech, or if your tied up with another mech. AC2 seems like a fail wep and you would be fail to dismiss the utility and effectiveness of it.

[Vulpesveritas]

Future Perfect, on 27 June 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

The top one is my Founders mech which I already paid for and yes I guess it just suddenly got a LRM 20.

http://mwowiki.org/i...php?title=Atlas

Well, that explains a number of things. Not only are you a troll, lacking any evidence other than taking the assumption that the Devs won't balance the game to make all weapons effective, and that your LRM 20 is going to be highly accurate, and that PPCs and Gauss rifles are going to be superior... yeah. You forget if they're sticking to TT, you're likely going to be running single heat sinks... have fun with that PPC. Plus, what about bullet travel time? Unless PPCs and AC rounds travel the same speed in the same amount of time, there may be a degree of accuracy there to consider. Plus, a PPC round, large laser or LRM launch could broadcast your location to anyone looking in your general direction more than an AC round quite possibly (not helping that you're in a fatlas) removing any real element of stealth you may have had.

Furthermore you seem to lack skill based gameplay ideals, instead you apear to prefer to take a brute force aproach rather than a faster moving, precision based gameplay style such as running in a faster moving light or medium.

My personal opinion: AC/2s will have their place, no matter what, though how much they will be used by the playerbase in general will depend on how the devs implement it and whether they decide to 'buff' the stats of the AC/2.

Edit: And your tendency to like your own posts doesn't really help your case at all. It merely makes you seem more childish than you already do, and emphasize your lack of professionalism in your posts, wherein you resort to using opinions or assumptions and submit them as factual evidence, whereas they are instead opinions, not facts.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 02 July 2012 - 06:54 AM.

[Fire for Effect]

Vulpesveritas, on 02 July 2012 - 06:39 AM, said:

Edit: And your tendency to like your own posts doesn't really help your case at all. It merely makes you seem more childish than you already do, and emphasize your lack of professionalism in your posts, wherein you resort to using opinions or assumptions and submit them as factual evidence, whereas they are instead opinions, not facts.

nice one
*throws a fuzzy kit fox in VVs direction; with fuzzy dice; a pin-up to the right of the control stick that suits his likings*

[CaveMan]

The AC/2 stays.

The OP of this thread has to go.

I have spoken.