432 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Really guys, you vote for AMS rewards? This is pathetic ...

No piece of equipment should ever have a reward for bringing it while other equipment does not. Why do you think people bring LRMs? Because other people bring TAG/Narc to get their specific rewards. There is no incentive to bring a brawler mech, or even a sniper mech, you don't get rewards for Gauss/LBX.

AMS protects you and your team just as ECM does. Should we then give ECM rewards too? Make the already mandatory jesus box even more mandatory?

The entire lock-on mechanics is bad, and the no-LOS locks retention is also a complete BS. Is it really such a surprise that the minimum-skill low-risk-high-reward weapon is so popular?

[Lupin]

Speed of LRM specially Clan LRM could be adjusted and LRM flight trajectory seriously needs looking at.

[Joe Mallad]

LRM damage isn't the problem. They only do 1 damage each now. The issue is there is just to many coming at you at one time. YES, we ALL know you should avoid them... bla bla bla. But for those that say avoid them and take cover, these are large and in most cases, slow moving mechs that can't just turn on a dime or reverse to get into cover lol. For those of you that have the first reaction to say "take cover or use cover" I'm sure most if you don't use LRMs or are the guys throwing mass amounts of LRMs at others. So yeah, its real easy to say use cover.

Granted, on some maps it is that easy to avoid them. But in other maps... You get stuck out in the open and have no cover, you are a LRM magnet. And I'm sorry, it should not have to come down to half to 3/4 of the battle being everyone taking cover out of fear of the LRM gods releasing their wrath on you lol.

A new pass is coming on the reward system and a reward for using AMS to shoot down LRMs is also being implemented. Maybe this will get more people to start using AMS is they are now going to be rewarded for it.

This might help keep some of the LRMs out of the air and allow some to last longer on the battlefield.

[James DeGriz]

If enough people used the already plentiful counters to LRMs, moved intelligently (even moving at ALL would be good in some situations from what I've seen), LRM boaters would not get half as many kills as they do, there would be fewer of them and the problem would solve itself.

All the time players DON'T do any of that, LRMs remain a viable weapon choice for the lazy and we will keep getting these bloody threads week after week. LRMs aren't the problem. Boaters aren't the problem. People who won't help themselves despite all the advice they're given are the problem.

[Joe Mallad]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 November 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Really guys, you vote for AMS rewards? This is pathetic ...

No piece of equipment should ever have a reward for bringing it while other equipment does not. Why do you think people bring LRMs? Because other people bring TAG/Narc to get their specific rewards. There is no incentive to bring a brawler mech, or even a sniper mech, you don't get rewards for Gauss/LBX.

AMS protects you and your team just as ECM does. Should we then give ECM rewards too? Make the already mandatory jesus box even more mandatory?

The entire lock-on mechanics is bad, and the no-LOS locks retention is also a complete BS. Is it really such a surprise that the minimum-skill low-risk-high-reward weapon is so popular?

youre serious right?

First off... An AMS reward IS COMING. Second, people get a reward for using TAG and NARC if they use it and an LRM guys gets a kill off the help of that equipment. We get C-bills and XP for the damage all our weapons do, including LRMs. So why shouldn't we get some XP or C-bills as a bonus for equipping AMS and ammo for it to protect ourselves or aid a lance mate from LRMs that does not have AMS? We get a savior bonus for coming to the aid of a team mate who is badly hit and about to die. So why not a bonus for aiding that guy with AMS support too?

Using AMS as a defense weapon as it is... Is no different than using anything else in this game that we get bonuses for. And so... I greatly except another system that we can both use as protection and get some kind of a bonus as a thanks for using.

And just like everything else in the game, you're not being forced to use it if you don't want lol.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 27 November 2014 - 05:55 AM.

[Alex Warden]

tm10067, on 26 November 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

Just turn off free for all C3 network and everything will be ok. Want free target - use narc.

and i was getting my fingers bloody from typing that kind of stuff during closed beta... imho the whole targeting, locking,infosharing etc.system is just too lazy implemented... a different approach could give a very great basic for information- and role warfare, but you know... PGI and compelexity were never 2 shoes of the same pair... (overcomplicated is not complexity...)

[Joseph Mallan]

s0hno, on 24 November 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

Greetings

Your poll requires a no changes needed. Since I had to choose something I chose trajectory.

[James DeGriz]

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

youre serious right?

First off... An AMS reward IS COMING. Second, people get a reward for using TAG and NARC if they use it and an LRM guys gets a kill off the help of that equipment. We get C-bills and XP for the damage all our weapons do, including LRMs. So why shouldn't we get some XP or C-bills as a bonus for equipping AMS and ammo for it to protect ourselves or aid a lance mate from LRMs that does not have AMS? We get a savior bonus for coming to the aid of a team mate who is badly hit and about to die. So why not a bonus for aiding that guy with AMS support too?

Using AMS as a defense weapon as it is... Is no different than using anything else in this game that we get bonuses for. And so... I greatly except another system that we can both use as protection and get some kind of a bonus as a thank you using.

And just like everything else in the game, you're not being forced to use it if you don't want lol.

You'd think "not dying" would be reward enough? You have the choice to not mount AMS. This comes as a trade off; mounting a defensive measure, means less space for an offensive measure - those kinds of trade offs are largely why we spend so much time in the mechlab in the first place. Why the hell should there be a reward for it?

[Scyther]

Voted my option, one of which was "requires Line of Sight". Would just like to clarify that to say that indirect fire could use NON LoS (team targeting) if the mech equipped some form of targeting computer, C3 computer, or computer+Artemis combination.

Those would add some degree of weight penalty for the use of true indirect fire.

My problem with LRMs is not that "they do damage" but that "they do damage in a way that promotes a less fun and engaging playstyle both for the user and the target".

I don't think they should be taken out or made ineffective, but I do think they are far overused in a way that hampers players from improving their other play skills.

[PhoenixFire55]

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

First off... An AMS reward IS COMING.

Nobody equips AMS it because it is useless (shoots through walls and/or at LRMs that are going to be blocked by terrain, i.e. wasting ammo etc. etc.). So, what they do to make people equip it? No, they don't make it useful or at least fix it so it works properly, they give you c-bills for bringing it and wasting your AMS ammo while standing in a fkn tunnel. Is it going to reward you for helping your team? Nope, but keep shooting your AMS through that Forest Colony tunnel.

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

Second, people get a reward for using TAG and NARC if they use it and an LRM guys gets a kill off the help of that equipment.

Why is this particular gameplay (light spotter + LRM boat) is rewarded while at the same time brining two brawlers and taking damage, breaking through enemy defences isn't?

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

We get C-bills and XP for the damage all our weapons do, including LRMs. So why shouldn't we get some XP or C-bills as a bonus for equipping AMS and ammo for it to protect ourselves or aid a lance mate from LRMs that does not have AMS?

Following that logic brining ECM (that does the same thing as AMS and even better) should also net you rewards. As I said, should we make the jesus-box even better? And what sort of rewards will the anti-jesus-box give you then?

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

We get a savior bonus for coming to the aid of a team mate who is badly hit and about to die. So why not a bonus for aiding that guy with AMS support too?

Oh please. I can run out in a Locust take a bunch of hits and run back to my team in 30 seconds and then for the rest of the match be somewhere in complete safety, while the rest of my team gets savior kills and assists on mechs that damaged me like 10 mins ago. Or I can have an Atlas with an open torso and a legged red-CT Spider shooting me with one small laser. Then somebody comes and "saves" me stealing ... I mean killing the Spider. You really think that savior bonus means anything?

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

Using AMS as a defense weapon as it is... Is no different than using anything else in this game that we get bonuses for. And so... I greatly except another system that we can both use as protection and get some kind of a bonus as a thank you using.

Giving bonuses for one thing and not giving for the other thing promotes one style of gameplay over the other. To avoid that you need to give bonuses for everything, and giving them for everything is as good as not giving them for anything. No, we don't need any bonuses. At all.

[Hamish McPiton]

LRMs are fine. Even when I was on a crappy low fps laptop I never died to them. I used to run Jager A and lurm anyone who was in a trial mech - I realized that might be driving off the total newbies so I stopped doing that so much (and I don't get as many of them in my matches these days) but if you just stand there in the rain... what do you expect?

[Tyler Durden]

Your poll is biased. The follow up question assumes that there is "LRM over-usage" when it is neither the case nor how I voted.

Your next poll should ask when we stopped beating our wives.

[Joe Mallad]

Yes AMS triggers and shoots through walls or at LRMs that are going to miss anyway and some don't take AMS as they don't want I waste the ammo when its not needed. And isn't there a option to put AMS in a toggle so it's not auto shooting and wasting ammo? When you get that "incoming LRMs" message and YOU feel they will hit you or a nearby team mate, you hit the toggle and use the AMS. And not waste ammo.

[Creovex]

Kalimaster, on 24 November 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Has this subject not been beaten to death already. We need to focus on items such as new building models and other subjects that will add to the game. The subject of LRM's, cannons, and PPC's has come up so many times it is not even funny. Then there is TAG, ECM, and NARC. The weapons are balanced.

This subject has come up so many times that it is not even funny and is for many players, including my self, a sore spot. Look back into the back pages and you will be surprised at just how many "want to nerf" or get rid of posts there are. It is nothing short of annoying whenever another post to Nerf a weapon, or get rid of a map comes up.

++rep (feel the same as this ^ guy)

Also, don't like LRMs? A few ROOKIE suggestions... since vets should know better and shouldn't be on here complaining at this point IMO....

• Always be aware of cover.... charging into the middle of a map has risks, so be aware or come prepared. (All maps support cover for ALL size mechs, think Chess for this game, not Checkers like CoD or other games you may play)
  
• Run with a buddy who has an ECM or carry it yourself to reduce exposure.
  
• Run with an AMS or Dual AMS and learn to toggle active/inactive on the AMS to reduce wasted ammo (ie. in MPG, turn the damn thing off if you are camping underneath)
  
• If you are doing #3, mount the AMS module to speed up fire time...
  
• Mount Radar Deprevation to reduce lock on exposure...
  
• Stop playing lone wolf Rambo and THINK BEFORE YOU MOVE!

Edited by Creovex, 26 November 2014 - 06:09 AM.

[Cementi]

The problem is not lrms or their overusage.

Which honestly all you need to not see lrms on the oposing team is to drop in a kitfox with three ams overload module and ams range module with several thousand rounds of ammo. I promise you the other team will not have a single lrm mech.......happens every time.

In all seriousness though the real issue is people do not take ams. If you look around at your drop mates I would be surprised if even a third of the group took ams. Too often I see lrm's coming in and the only ams fire I see is coming from my mech. The odd time I have had a guild mate get mowed by lrms and he has bitched I simply ask "Do you have ams?" the answer is usually no to which I reply "You have no right to complain then. Run ams and radar dep and it will help though we really need to have ams on everyone, but at least run the counters before you complain."

Now I understand there are some builds where it is simply too tight to fit in but that is not 8 out of 12 mechs. I think two of my 40 or so mechs do not have ams.

The few times where I have dropped and everyone or at least almost everyone had ams very few missles got through to the group. We rushed them and rolled over them.

So I voted no I do not see them overused but I did vote yes for ams usage rewards. Then maybe we could get people who currently feel its a waste to bring it to bring it. Probally not though since the problem players who do not bring it are usually the ones that are only concerned with K/A/Damage. It is really hard to get that kind of player to look past that and take a team orientated loadout.

Long story short there are currently two major counters to ams besides ecm which was before truly overused and is now countered by BAP. AMS and the radar depravation module. I recomend you use both but at the very least use one or the other. If you can get 8 or more mechs in a drop to start using this then you will see LRM's not only hurting you less but less people bringing them because they are not as effective.

Till then I will happily roll my Trebuchet out and obliterate people who refuse to bring what they need to counter me.

[Valdherre Tor]

I feel like I was tricked into answering that second question since there are already ways to counter LRMs. derp derp. There should be an option in that second question for the current LRM counter methods are sufficient enough but ppl are too stupid to take cover, equip ECM, stay in ECM cover, counter fire with your own LRMs, equip AMS, outrun the missiles in a fast light, and or a equip radar deprivation module. However I could see how this game can be very frustrating for those mechs that wander off Rambo style into a wide open area with no cover.

[AlmightyAeng]

In the second part of the poll, please add an option for "Nothing, they're fine."

[Dimento Graven]

Here's the ultimate fix to LRMS during challenges:

DO NOT COUNT LRM DAMAGE DURING CHALLENGES.

Problem solved.

And to all the people saying, "Just take AMS, problem solved." That response is so stupidly self-serving of you LRM boaters. Take that BS somewhere else.

I've taken AMS and if you have only ONE LRM boat shooting ONE stream of missiles at you, fine, AMS can mitigate a portion of the incoming missiles.

Now, during challenges, when 8 out 12 'mechs PROBABLY have AT LEAST a couple of LRM racks, it's comparable to trying to use a cocktail drink umbrella to stay dry in a monsoon, ie: it not so much...

For everything EXCEPT challenges, LRMs are about where they need to be in efficacy, it's just in challenges where damn near everyone brings missiles that it gets beyond overwhelming.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 26 November 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dimento Graven, on 26 November 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Here's the ultimate fix to LRMS during challenges:

DO NOT COUNT LRM DAMAGE DURING CHALLENGES.

Problem solved.

[Mercules]

Yoseful Mallad, on 26 November 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

YES, we ALL know you should avoid them... bla bla bla. But for those that say avoid them and take cover, these are large and in most cases, slow moving mechs that can't just turn on a dime or reverse to get into cover lol. For those of you that have the first reaction to say "take cover or use cover" I'm sure most if you don't use LRMs or are the guys throwing mass amounts of LRMs at others. So yeah, its real easy to say use cover.

It's easy to say and easy to do. Don't drive super slow mechs for one thing, or if you do understand you are a huge target for LRMs and equip AMS and stick near cover.



LRMs are only good against BAD pilots. Seriously. This isn't a "No True Scotsman" thing, the damage an LRM does is inversely related to your target's skill level. Skilled = you will rarely if every hit them. Unskilled = takes damage from LRMs and then comes to the forum and goes, "Guys... what are we going to do about all these OP LRMs."