154 replies to this topic

[F4T 4L]

Mystere, on 24 November 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Why do you think I have been asking for a 24+ no-holds-barred last-man-standing winner-takes-all free for all Solaris mode all this time?

It's the only eSports mode I will ever want in MWO.

I agree this is a great idea, if more than a few folk want it.

Maybe open up a poll in feature suggestions?

I wouldn't play it myself, mind.

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 November 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

I find it easy: Ignore the challenge screen, like I generally do my stats page. I'm here to play a game, not be a stat accountant, lol.

I get that, but I have a bit of OCD completionist in me... Why else would I have all the packages and most of the heroes.... It's my curse....

[Jeb]

AdamBaines, on 24 November 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

I will disagree with that statement. But no biggie. We have different opinions on this.

Either way, to earn this mech it should not have been simple weather its via skill or grind.

It was "hard" because it was a long frustrating grind... it was not hard skill wise...
I hated this challenge... it was not fun...

Think about your normal night of playing MWO... how hard is it really to get a kill and an assist? Not hard really... a lot of matches an average player will end up with at least 1 or 2 kills.. I suck at the game IMO, and I can pull off a kill or two most matches where we don't get stomped...

Add on winning and staying alive, and those are really not individual skill things...
If you have a good team, they become trivial... in fact if you got a good team, you had to be on the ball to make sure you got a kill in before the win happened...


the only real hard part was how long it took to get a good team, which was really 100% random... If you got lucky, you could get the 20 points in 35 or so matches it seems...
I was closer to 60 which 55 or so seemed average, and I have seen others that posted over 100...


Yes it was hard to get the points, but it was not hard because the skill needed was high... In a lot of matches I would die, but have 2-4 kills... yet some guy got a lucky kill shot in, and hid for the rest of the match, and got a point... no skill there, just more gaming the rules, and hoping the team carries ya to a win.

[Wintersdark]

MadBadger, on 24 November 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

SAOBH said:

"In order to survive and win the match you can't be a coward hiding away nor be a Leroy Jenkins. This simple rule made it that the best strategy for an individual was to actually support his team mates by fighting hard enough to hurt the red team while being careful enough to not die."

(sorry, quoting doesn't seem to do anything when I click on 'Quote'. In fact lots of things in this editor don't seem to work for me)

Totally agree. Most challenges I have seen in the past have been (to my view) obvious 'gaming goal' challenges. This challenge was way more 'in character', as it basically says "Act like you were a real MechWarrior. Win the battle, pull your weight, survive and bring that damned expensive 'mech we trusted you with back in one-ish piece."

Dunno about anybody else, but the challenge made perfect sense to me, and was well-adjusted effort vs. reward. Especially since the very first point triggered 3 days of premium, as that made all the subsequent battles worthwhile regardless.

This is how the theory is awesome, the practical experience less so.

For those who didn't encounter lots of cowards, good on you. Must be nice. My first day had few to none on my team, lots of exploitable ones on enemy teams... Day 2? Zounds of cowards.

Sure, logic says hiding after you get a kill is counterproductive. But it appears nobody told a hell of a lot of players that.
For example, damaged spider (no torso armor), legged FS9, and a hbk4g with a trashed ac20. On my team, 90% Timberwolf and damaged but fully armed second timberwolf.

That standoff lasted 5 full minutes. 5 minutes! Because the Timberwolves where afraid to push.

And being down a kill, we where going to lose.

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 24 November 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Random players, all out 100% for themselves, with entirely different outlooks on the game? *shudder*

You have described the solo queue is a nutshell. You have won the Internets.

Welcome to MWO.



In the solo queue, it doesn't always pay off.

There are 3 different things that are done in the solo queue...

1) Guys that wait for stuff to happen... because everything is too scary (it's not as if you learned much from the tutorials). Occasionally, these people don't mind someone else become the meat shield for them... for better or worse.

2) Guys that are willing to help the team out, regardless. Some people actually are team players... and it is what it is.

3) Guys that do their own thing altogether... because reasons. They play this game like a simple FPS, and probably will never get "teamwork".

All of these things contribute to results of a match. If there were #2s instead of #1s and #3s, we'd have a better game. Too bad, you can find more of that in the group queue.

The thing is when you are your team's "drop commander" in the group queue is that your "trust level" of your teammates determine how much you'll allow them to "freelance". There are only 3 things that matter...

1) If you know your teammate is going to do the right thing more often than not, you are more compelled to help them out. For whatever reason if the group included the Lords, I would follow them and try not to screw up. It's not that hard to follow people that know what they are doing.

2) If you know your teammate is going to do the wrong thing more often than not, you are somewhat compelled to dial down your optimal plans, because you can't trust them to do what you tell them to do. There are often many smaller teams that "do their own thing" and often are the first to be killed and/or are the least productive in the match. This often repeats itself long term, and chances are they subsequently stop playing the game. This is sad.

3) If the team needs a direction, you have to give them a direction... whether you succeed or not is another matter. Regardless of the result, it is imperative to refine your decision making over time, particularly when the conditions changes (especially of the unfavorable kind) so that mistakes aren't repeated. As I've said before... consistency is what make good players great. Inconsistency is the opponent of greatness.


In essence, teamplay relies on the simple aspect of trust between one or more players on a team to do their job. The less trust that is provided between teammates, the more likely they will lose more often than not. Solo play lacks any sort of trust... unless you recognize some of the people you drop with. It would be a miracle of solo matches would even become 50% of what the group queue is... but it is generally not the case and dependent on your Elo. If only your teammates would take teamwork seriously, is where this challenge becomes a chore, instead of a fun event.

[RockmachinE]

I don't think justification is required. Do you demand justification when you receive free stuff in real life too? At best you got free premium time, for doing absolutely nothing. At worst you personally made it into a big deal and a medium to express how spoiled you are.

Everyone's a winner, participation trophies, no one comes last and sh*t like this. This is precisely the result of such a mentality. You breed people who need to get their way 100% of the time even if you give them free stuff....IN A FREE GAME! ONLINE!

Great society we've created for ourselves there, can't even find peace from spoiled ass*oles in fantasy environments these days.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 24 November 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[F4T 4L]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

I don't think justification is required. Do you demand justification when you receive free stuff in real life too? At best you got free premium time, for doing absolutely nothing. At worst you personally made it into a big deal and a medium to express how spoiled you are.

Everyone's a winner, participation trophies, no one comes last and sh*t like this. This is precisely the result of such a mentality. You breed people who need to get their way 100% of the time even if you give them free stuff....IN A GAME! ONLINE!

Great society we've created for ourselves there, can't even find peace from spoiled ass*oles in fantasy environments.

Intentionally obtuse ftw.

The quality of play in the solo queue this weekend was at an all time low. In my time here anyway.

Edited by F4T 4L, 24 November 2014 - 02:07 PM.

[wasder unguided]

This challenge added the fear of dying for the first time. It made the game so much better for me... normally a MWO round is pretty forgettable but I remember at least half of those 20 qualifying rounds clear as day.

I'm hoping PGI finds ways to introduce even more 'high stakes' matches. I don't get anything out of just running around blasting things - I enjoy the the team dynamic, including the occasional cowardice, and there's a definite thrill in charging into battle not knowing if you can rely on your team mates.

This was a raw challenge with a lot of rough edges but I don't want to play a sanitised, balanced-to-death game.

Anyone complaining.. it was only one weekend, only a victor as a prize, and I'm a terrible player and managed it quite easily. So did players even worse than me.

[Bishop Steiner]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

I don't think justification is required. Do you demand justification when you receive free stuff in real life too? At best you got free premium time, for doing absolutely nothing. At worst you personally made it into a big deal and a medium to express how spoiled you are.

Everyone's a winner, participation trophies, no one comes last and sh*t like this. This is precisely the result of such a mentality. You breed people who need to get their way 100% of the time even if you give them free stuff....IN A FREE GAME! ONLINE!

Great society we've created for ourselves there, can't even find peace from spoiled ass*oles in fantasy environments these days.

Um...not the issue?

How about, yeah sure, free stuff is nice, but being forced to deal with the fallout of stupidity of players because you have to drop with them whether you want the free stuff or not?

Believe it or not? Could care less about the free stuff. Would trade it all for a reduction in gameplay stupidity over the weekend.

[RockmachinE]

F4T 4L, on 24 November 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Intentionally obtuse ftw.

The quality of play in the solo queue this weekend was at an all time low. In my time here anyway.

Obtuse for people who can't understand the concept. Very real for the ones that do.

[F4T 4L]

wasder unguided, on 24 November 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

This challenge added the fear of dying for the first time. It made the game so much better for me... normally a MWO round is pretty forgettable but I remember at least half of those 20 qualifying rounds clear as day.

I'm hoping PGI finds ways to introduce even more 'high stakes' matches. I don't get anything out of just running around blasting things - I enjoy the the team dynamic, including the occasional cowardice, and there's a definite thrill in charging into battle not knowing if you can rely on your team mates.

This was a raw challenge with a lot of rough edges but I don't want to play a sanitised, balanced-to-death game.

Anyone complaining.. it was only one weekend, only a victor as a prize, and I'm a terrible player and managed it quite easily. So did players even worse than me.

For many folk the weekend is the only time they have to play.

[Bishop Steiner]

F4T 4L, on 24 November 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

For many folk the weekend is the only time they have to play.

and when nearly all events are scored in such a way as to encourage stupid and selfish behavior, and dang near EVERY weekend has an event (that even if you don't opt in for, you are surrounded by, and cannot escape), it kinda does matter.

[RockmachinE]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 November 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Um...not the issue?

How about, yeah sure, free stuff is nice, but being forced to deal with the fallout of stupidity of players because you have to drop with them whether you want the free stuff or not?

Believe it or not? Could care less about the free stuff. Would trade it all for a reduction in gameplay stupidity over the weekend.

The quality of gameplay in solo was more or less the same, your perception of it was different. Sure the gameplay changed a bit, but it did so in both directions, I've had some of the most exciting combat ever and I've seen people actually rush in with blood in their eyes to get the kill. People NEVER did that. It was also way more tactical and methodical. People NEVER did that either.

I guess a lot of people like ball of death dumb-as* gameplay and are surprised when faced with something that requires tactical finesse.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 24 November 2014 - 02:13 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

The quality of gameplay in solo was more or less the same, your perception of it was different. Sure the gameplay changed a bit, but it did so in both directions, I've had some of the most exciting combat ever and I've seen people actually rush in with blood in their eyes to get the kill. People NEVER did that.

No, apparently the quality in your matches, overall was the same. I see far more posts contradicting that view than supporting it. Most of the time I don't see everyone scurrying off and bloody hiding. I have 20k matches in this game, most in PUG queue.... pretty bloody sure I know what the queue "usually looks like".

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 November 2014 - 02:13 PM.

[Gauvan]

Mystere, on 24 November 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

I actually saw progressively improving game play over the weekend. So all is not lost.

It's funny, but my experience was quite the opposite. Friday night was quite fun with a lot of good play (for solo queue, anyway). There was trivial LRM boating going on, which really surprised me. I'm glad I made a dent on Friday because I had to play all day on Saturday to finish and it took a lot of matches. More LRMs from the back, more passive play. I dropped in a few matches for fun on Sunday and it seemed pretty bad as well.

The thing that bugs me about these tournaments is that, in my opinion, the best way to qualify is to play normally, but be more attentinve to technique. Trying to game the formula, boating LRMs, wildly changing your play style really isn't the smart play Or rather, it would work great if you were the only one who thought of it but that's never the case and everyone ends up with a dull match.

I don't know how PGI could address this in a tournament formula, though. The only thing I can come up with is to exclude LRM damage from contributing somehow, not becasue LRMs are overpowered or easy, but to force the players who gravitate to sitting in the back lobbing LRMs at the terrain to just try something else. I really think if there was a way to push folks out of their safe zone they'd realize there are a lot of ways to succeed in the tournaments and everyone would have a better time.

[Mystere]

F4T 4L, on 24 November 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Is it possible that the improvement corresponded with folk getting their 20.

I suspect a large chunk was.

[RockmachinE]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 November 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

I see far more posts contradicting that view than supporting it.

Of course you do, refer to my first post in this thread. The majority is rarely right...

[Bishop Steiner]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Of course you do, refer to my first post in this thread. The majority is rarely right...

thus thought every dictator in history.....

[Mystere]

Gauvan, on 24 November 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

It's funny, but my experience was quite the opposite. Friday night was quite fun with a lot of good play (for solo queue, anyway). There was trivial LRM boating going on, which really surprised me. I'm glad I made a dent on Friday because I had to play all day on Saturday to finish and it took a lot of matches. More LRMs from the back, more passive play. I dropped in a few matches for fun on Sunday and it seemed pretty bad as well.

This is a very clear case of YMMV. My worst matches were from Friday, my best from Sunday. So I don't know what else to say.

[RockmachinE]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 November 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

thus thought every dictator in history.....

And most great figures like revolutionaries, top scientists, artists, athletes and pretty much a good chunk of all the movers and shakers. Very very few of them were "average" people that ran with the crowd and shared the mentality of common men.

In fact if you are one of the "majority" you will likely do what the majority does. Nothing meaningful. Mostly mundane. Very routine stuff.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 24 November 2014 - 02:20 PM.