154 replies to this topic

[F4T 4L]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Of course you do, refer to my first post in this thread. The majority is rarely right...

Don't think I'll bother, since you're obviously trolling.

[RockmachinE]

F4T 4L, on 24 November 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

Don't think I'll bother, since you're obviously trolling.

No I'm just giving you arguments you could not possibly comprehend.

[F4T 4L]

What, you wanna street fight to sort it out?

Facile.

[RockmachinE]

No I'd be happy with a verbal argument, seeing that we're in a medium where physical confrontation is more or less impossible.

[Captain Stiffy]

I have no problem at all with survival being rewarded. What I have a problem with (as I said already here) is the entire meta being changed for weekend tournaments. I did miss almost all of this one but the impact is no different from the last several.

Can it PLEASE be decided what behaviors are to be rewarded and ALL OF THE META tuned appropriately to match so that we know what behaviors to train and what personal skills are valuable?

[wasder unguided]

Those are my matches from Monday (UK time). Maybe just luck but anyway those are the only ones I dropped solo. Was a little tougher when dropping in groups... all my friends said the same thing.

Edited by wasder unguided, 24 November 2014 - 02:35 PM.

[Jeb]

So 6 out of 17 games you got a point if I am counting that right.

add in another 17 games and your at 12 points
add in another 17 games and your at 18 points
so 51 games and your at 18 points...
That is assuming your matches kept going with the same average points per games...

most people seem to be posting in the 45-65 range it seems with some lower and a few over 100 even...

[F4T 4L]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

No I'd be happy with a verbal argument, seeing that we're in a medium where physical confrontation is more or less impossible.

Welcome to my new sig.

[wasder unguided]

Jeb, on 24 November 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

That is assuming your matches kept going with the same average points per games...

most people seem to be posting in the 45-65 range it seems with some lower and a few over 100 even...

65 seems about right for me, I just wanted to illustrate that dropping solo was fine (at least for me).

[pwnface]

Took 34 matches for me but group queue only. Seemed to be winning and losing in streaks though, had a 6 match losing streak

[Captain Stiffy]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 November 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

They really need to re-buff the HGN's jumping before then...would be unseemly for a non Highlander to win that......

I never had any fun playing this in TT. The victor is basically decided by drop location I.E. randomly.

[RockmachinE]

F4T 4L, on 24 November 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Welcome to my new sig.

I'm honored, this is brilliant!

[F4T 4L]

Louis Brofist, on 24 November 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

I'm honored, this is brilliant!

You are.. I certainly wouldn't do this for just _any_ obnoxious, self-important, ******!

[Mogul]

First post on here, been playing since beta... Enjoyed the challenge overall as it was something slightly different, the feeling of panic when my mech was almost dead but had to survive was great too, unfortunately I didn't manage to get the Victor but that's how it goes. Couple of points and bare in mind I only drop solo so this may not reflect everyone's experience:1) I think LRM boating became a major problem, more so than usual, facing an LRM 400 team meant as soon as you got targeted you were killed, even in assaults. 2) Some matches players would hang back from the team and wait to try and mop up. 3) People running away once they had a kill, not a problem in itself, but by running away the team lost making running away pointless in the first place. 4) I suspect mech tonnage per match went up meaning longer wait times. Overall though I enjoyed myself

Edited by Mogul, 24 November 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[RockmachinE]

F4T 4L, on 24 November 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

You are.. I certainly wouldn't do this for just _any_ obnoxious, self-important, ******!

Awww shucks! We should be friends now.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Captain Stiffy, on 24 November 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Russ please positively explain why you would make survival a requirement for the tournament. I am trying to find some positive justification for it and I can't.

To avoid people exploiting?

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 November 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

whelp, that would be a good way to get me to uninstall, or at least find another game to play for a month.

30 days of idiotic play...... no thank you bro.

IF surviving actually served some sort of purpose, like number of matches you survive in a row, adding to some sort of escalating bonus, etc, or if in an event a destroyed mech could not be used for the rest of the event, or we still had RnR or any number of things, it might almost serve a purpose.

As it is, it promotes even more timid play. Don't play to win, they play to not lose. And that leads to losing. And dying anyhow.

That's the whole point. It does serve a purpose - it helps your team win. The problem is teaching people the difference between playing smart and playing timid. That takes time and experience. Playing timid simply increases the odds of you losing; playing smart and tactical greatly increases the odds of an overall win.

The point is that you're not going to help people see that line in 3 days. It takes closer to 21 days. When you play in group queue that is a large part of what the difference is; with your group you protect each other and you can safely fall back to save your firepower for later in the match if it's needed.

The problems you're having now is that it's making perfectly clear how few players recognize the difference. The idea is simply a bonus; you get a bonus above and beyond your regular win/loss payout if you get a kill, an assist, and survive a match that you win.

We need retrained, Bish. As a community. The problem with this challenge was NOT the challenge itself; it's that it shown a spotlight on how much we suck balls at a lot of critical skills. You change that by having a long term on-going reward for people who try to cultivate good skills.

Yes, people who play timid will shaft their team. So do people who play stupid. So many people play suicidal stupid that we don't even notice that anymore. There is a balance that is struck between playing like a pansy and playing like Rambo. You're not going to get anyone moving towards that balance in 3 days. This is why good teams train together.

Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Practicing good skills gets you good skills. Right now we have most the pbase practicing bad skills, being bad and firmly believing they should be good - because they practice.

Make sense? Not talking about that being the only reward; only that fulfilling that criteria gets you a better one. Significantly better and in a format you can track. That's the other issue. KDR isn't that reliable for a lot of reasons; keeping this counter going for 30 days gives people immediate, understandable feedback.

[SpeedingBus]

I am sorry the whole survive part turned everyone into cowards... real adrenaline rush when its 6 mins into the game and no one has died! I also had a game with non lrm Stalker at 77 percent armor with my Timberwolf having only 2 medium lasers left and everything bright red vs a nearly cored atlas missing some weapons as well with damaged timberwolf next to him. Can you guess what happen? Time ran out my stalker wouldn't ******* move and enemy timberwolf wasn't gonna run into our base to try to kill me. PGI is off there rocker if majority of people had fun with this so called challange.. PGI not doing things right since 2012.

[Golden Vulf]

Farix, on 24 November 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

Then the "kill one mech" should have been removed as a condition. I got lots of assists, did lots of damage, AND survived plenty of match, but rarely got a kill in those match. The only way I could get a kill was to be hyper aggressive, and we know that generally leads you to being dead most of the time. However, based on the "rules" contributing in those matches where I survived, did lots of damage, and won, this somehow makes me a terrible player because I couldn't get a kill.

Because you can get those same results by hiding in the back and lurm boating the whole match.

I'm not saying that lurmboating doesn't help the team if the lurmboaters are provided ample target locks and they keep up with the group so they don't get flanked, but basically you're still leeching off the other Mechwarriors taking risks.

You can get kills with lurms if you fire a metric fuckton of them, but to get the Killing Blow usually takes some kind of pin point damage to the chest or legs, which requires risk while you get that close to do it. (Or Dual Gauss from across the map with a clear line of fire)

So yeah, this was a challenge where lurm support was not a guarantee of success.

And aggression is good, but it needs to be controlled and directed to the right place at the right time. TACTICS!

Edited by Golden Vulf, 24 November 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

00ohDstruct, on 24 November 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

To avoid people exploiting?

sadly, instead of exploits, it just encouraged horribly team play outside of larger teams, period...soooooo....mission failed?

MischiefSC, on 24 November 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

That's the whole point. It does serve a purpose - it helps your team win. The problem is teaching people the difference between playing smart and playing timid. That takes time and experience. Playing timid simply increases the odds of you losing; playing smart and tactical greatly increases the odds of an overall win.

The point is that you're not going to help people see that line in 3 days. It takes closer to 21 days. When you play in group queue that is a large part of what the difference is; with your group you protect each other and you can safely fall back to save your firepower for later in the match if it's needed.

The problems you're having now is that it's making perfectly clear how few players recognize the difference. The idea is simply a bonus; you get a bonus above and beyond your regular win/loss payout if you get a kill, an assist, and survive a match that you win.

We need retrained, Bish. As a community. The problem with this challenge was NOT the challenge itself; it's that it shown a spotlight on how much we suck balls at a lot of critical skills. You change that by having a long term on-going reward for people who try to cultivate good skills.

Yes, people who play timid will shaft their team. So do people who play stupid. So many people play suicidal stupid that we don't even notice that anymore. There is a balance that is struck between playing like a pansy and playing like Rambo. You're not going to get anyone moving towards that balance in 3 days. This is why good teams train together.

Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Practicing good skills gets you good skills. Right now we have most the pbase practicing bad skills, being bad and firmly believing they should be good - because they practice.

Make sense? Not talking about that being the only reward; only that fulfilling that criteria gets you a better one. Significantly better and in a format you can track. That's the other issue. KDR isn't that reliable for a lot of reasons; keeping this counter going for 30 days gives people immediate, understandable feedback.

I think what you hope, and the "real world" are in vastly different zip codes.