47 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

SnowDragon, on 25 November 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Wait, the warhawk is a bad mech?

It's pretty lacking compared to the Direwolf in terms of firepower, and IS assaults in terms of flexibility. It's got the Direwolf's huge side torsos but with much less armor, and can't rely on sustained damage to make opponents flank. The fixed 20 heatsinks mean that any build not relying on energy weapons is using the mech poorly (i.e. they become wasted tonnage if it's not a high heat build) but relying on large energy weapons is risky in an assault mech, especially given how how PPCs are. The WHK also doesn't have enough hardpoints to effectively boat smaller weapons; overall, it's not a great mech, and most IS assaults outclass it now that they're quirked.

I strongly suspect that the Gargoyle is going to make the Warhawk look really amazing by comparison though. We'll see how its hitboxes are when it comes out.

[Satan n stuff]

kesmai, on 25 November 2014 - 01:31 AM, said:

No question that it is not top tier, but its fun making it work. The jumping, i love jumping in that thing. Oh yes, did i mention jumping? Maybe the last jump-sniper you can have.

Nah, the Nova is a better jump-sniper. What other jump sniper can hit as hard as a brawler assault?

[Willard Phule]

For what it's worth, this has always been the case in the Solo Queue.

You rarely find a light or medium that's willing to stick it's neck out to either lock targets for the inexperienced player's LRMs or to even tell his side where the enemy is. It's just not worth it. One blast from a 2 ERPPC/Gauss meta build and they're toast.

I get WAY more of the "scouting bonuses" with my Timberwolf than I ever have with a Light or Medium. Especially when I bother to bring a UAV.

[KuroNyra]

Timber Wolf scout lance?


pff!

B!tch please!

Edited by KuroNyra, 25 November 2014 - 03:07 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Ted Wayz, on 24 November 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

...Had a 6k XP match in a Mad Cat...

What is this...Mad Cat you speak of ? Sounds like a Maurader/Catapult hybrid to me.

Speaking of which, haven't seen a Maurader on the battlefield lately....strange.

[Mcgral18]

aniviron, on 25 November 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

I don't own a Mist Lynx (and I don't think I want to) but after seeing them in battle, I think the Nova faces real competition for the title of worst clan mech.

Nova is between 3 and 4, while the Mist Lynx is without a doubt 5. Nova can at least have a very small niche of ALL the Lazors.

[aniviron]

Mcgral18, on 25 November 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

Nova is between 3 and 4, while the Mist Lynx is without a doubt 5. Nova can at least have a very small niche of ALL the Lazors.

All the lasers sounds neat, but doesn't really amount to much on the Nova.

Stock with 12 meds leaves you baking. Stock S with 6 med pulses is still too toasty even when swapping the MGs for heatsinks, and gives up the omgwtf potential of hitting someone with 12 lasers in a 1.75s window.

12 small lasers is sorta okay on heat but can't alpha, and leaves you at ~100m in a mech that is wider than the Awesome, has worst in class turning and twisting speed, and only a 50 tonner's worth of armor.

8 mediums is sorta okay, but at that point you're better off swapping out for a couple larges and some mediums, which means... you should use a Stormcrow instead, since it is smaller, has better hitboxes, is faster, gets way more pod space thanks to endo and ferro, has no hardlocked hoverjets, and has significantly better turning and twisting speeds. As a bonus, the Stormcrow also doesn't shoot half of every volley into the dirt in front of it, thanks to the arms being placed in a sensible position, a feature the Nova's engineers have not seen fit to bless its chassis with.

Really, there are enough clan mechs that can easily run 6+ lasers that there's no need for the Nova, especially when it's impossible to cool more than six, even on mechs that have a reasonable amount of pod space.

[Kmieciu]

Mcgral18, on 25 November 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

Nova is between 3 and 4, while the Mist Lynx is without a doubt 5. Nova can at least have a very small niche of ALL the Lazors.

Timberwolf does "all lazorz" better than the Nova. In fact, Stormcrow too.
Nova is only able to carry 6xERML with 24 DHS. Timberwolf can do 7xERML+2xLPL with 24 DHS.


I can only justify this version of Nova:
NVA-S 5xERML 6xERSL 4xMG
You've got 20 DHS, and means to fight at close&medium range as well as a possibility to do 65 damage within 1.65 seconds without ghost heat - fire your small lasers, wait 0.5 second, fire your medium lasers. And at least you can fire the mechineguns when you're overheating since there's no point in torso twisting in this thing.

Edited by Kmieciu, 25 November 2014 - 05:18 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Kmieciu, on 25 November 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

Timberwolf does "all lazorz" better than the Nova. In fact, Stormcrow too.
Nova is only able to carry 6xERML with 24 DHS. Timberwolf can do 7xERML+2xLPL with 24 DHS.

I think I would still rather have a Storm Crow for lasers though. It seems good for the role with its speed and agility IMO.

[Jetfire]

The Nova is a punisher, it has to hit very hard and fade. You swing for 42, wait a half second, 42, wait a couple seconds, 42, then switch to chain fire as you cool. Not much should still be standing after 126 damage to CT.

Mist Lynx definately needs some quirks but isn't beyond redemption.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I am actually finding myself fairly successful with the Mist Lynx and my stats are very respectable with them. I used them exclusively through last weekends challenge and it only took me 59 battles to qualify. I ended the challenge with 48 kills, 38 deaths, 25 wins. Of those 25 wins, I survived 24 of them but missed getting the kill and on the 25th, I got the kill but ended up being the last mech killed before we won. Also the reason I used the Mist Lynx was because I hadn't elited them yet and wanted to do that over the weekend so two of my variants started out without even having Speed Tweak so they ran 8500 XP worth of matches at 113 kph and I still did fine in them. In the end I think I only ran about 3-5 total matches with one that was fully elited.

So yeah, not a bad mech at all. Actually ended up with a bit better stats on the Mist Lynx than I did of my Ice Ferret. Don't get me wrong, it is not my top performer but it is falling solidly into being an average to slightly above average range...for me at least.

[Mcgral18]

aniviron, on 25 November 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

All the lasers sounds neat, but doesn't really amount to much on the Nova.

Stock with 12 meds leaves you baking. Stock S with 6 med pulses is still too toasty even when swapping the MGs for heatsinks, and gives up the omgwtf potential of hitting someone with 12 lasers in a 1.75s window.

12 small lasers is sorta okay on heat but can't alpha, and leaves you at ~100m in a mech that is wider than the Awesome, has worst in class turning and twisting speed, and only a 50 tonner's worth of armor.

8 mediums is sorta okay, but at that point you're better off swapping out for a couple larges and some mediums, which means... you should use a Stormcrow instead, since it is smaller, has better hitboxes, is faster, gets way more pod space thanks to endo and ferro, has no hardlocked hoverjets, and has significantly better turning and twisting speeds. As a bonus, the Stormcrow also doesn't shoot half of every volley into the dirt in front of it, thanks to the arms being placed in a sensible position, a feature the Nova's engineers have not seen fit to bless its chassis with.

Really, there are enough clan mechs that can easily run 6+ lasers that there's no need for the Nova, especially when it's impossible to cool more than six, even on mechs that have a reasonable amount of pod space.

Kmieciu, on 25 November 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

Timberwolf does "all lazorz" better than the Nova. In fact, Stormcrow too.
Nova is only able to carry 6xERML with 24 DHS. Timberwolf can do 7xERML+2xLPL with 24 DHS.


I can only justify this version of Nova:
NVA-S 5xERML 6xERSL 4xMG
You've got 20 DHS, and means to fight at close&medium range as well as a possibility to do 65 damage within 1.65 seconds without ghost heat - fire your small lasers, wait 0.5 second, fire your medium lasers. And at least you can fire the mechineguns when you're overheating since there's no point in torso twisting in this thing.

Neither of the above have 12 hardpoints; they have SRMs instead.

12 SPLs is devastating at 200M; so are SRMs. Although, I'd wager the 36+36 for a tad over 200 pinpoint damage at heat capacity beats the SRMs at 200M. 10M might be different.

11/12 ERSLs allows for other things, either one or two long range weapon, or MGs.

Believe it or not, the Nova has a good chance of killing things up close with those niche builds. I've facetanked DakkaWhales and CT cored them before the would kill the 50 ton Nova. It outputs a fair bit of damage in a short period of time, before hitting that heat wall.


Koshi cannot do that, of course. Nova has the ability to be a poor Glass Cannon, but the Koshi can neither punch, or take a punch. It can jump, and that's it.


If Banshees were tier 3, Novas would be 4. Of course, I think Banshees were 2, so Nova could be 3. No where near the 1 of the TimberGod or DoomCrow, but better than the 4 of the Fenris and 5 of the Koshi.


Mist Lynx is an unfortunate mech in MWO.

[LordMelvin]

The Boz, on 24 November 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

Instead of sensors per mech, you're suggesting sensor footprint per mech? Not a bad idea.
Something like.detection Range = 400 + ( 5 x Tonnage ) ? Meaning, you detect a Locust at 500 meters, a Centurion at 650, an an Atlas at 900?

Would make sense. In addition to any radar baffling including in light chassis, larger mechs would have bigger engines and would produce more signal "noise".

This would require a rework of ECM though. I'd personally like to see a passive radar option like existed in the previous MW games, allowing players to run "quiet" at the expense of active radar information (autodetect at range, non-LoS target locks, etc).

[FupDup]

The Boz, on 24 November 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

Instead of sensors per mech, you're suggesting sensor footprint per mech? Not a bad idea.
Something like.detection Range = 400 + ( 5 x Tonnage ) ? Meaning, you detect a Locust at 500 meters, a Centurion at 650, an an Atlas at 900?

Something to that effect. The exact numbers may need tweaking here and there but the idea is the same.

[SI The Joker]

FupDup, on 24 November 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

I think that sensors should probably be based more on actual mech tonnage (and/or quirks) than just weight class. We've already seen with things like class matching and 3/3/3/3 that assuming all mechs in a class to be equal doesn't end well unless they're actually equal (which they aren't).

So, a Commando should be harder for an enemy to detect than something like a Jenner or whatever, because it already has serious disadvantages by being lighter. Also, some mechs might get quirks to further differentiate their sensor roles, such as Ravens probably being stealthier (at least the 3L variant, not counting the usage of ECM) than other 35 ton lights.

I like this idea.

Back on Topic:

I like the Mist Lynx. I've been pretty successful in them so far. 4 CERMLAS is my config and I have few complaints.

Just don't try to facehump larger mechs. Stay back, use some cover and fly around like a madman.

[Angel of Annihilation]

aniviron, on 25 November 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

It's pretty lacking compared to the Direwolf in terms of firepower, and IS assaults in terms of flexibility. It's got the Direwolf's huge side torsos but with much less armor, and can't rely on sustained damage to make opponents flank. The fixed 20 heatsinks mean that any build not relying on energy weapons is using the mech poorly (i.e. they become wasted tonnage if it's not a high heat build) but relying on large energy weapons is risky in an assault mech, especially given how how PPCs are. The WHK also doesn't have enough hardpoints to effectively boat smaller weapons; overall, it's not a great mech, and most IS assaults outclass it now that they're quirked.

I strongly suspect that the Gargoyle is going to make the Warhawk look really amazing by comparison though. We'll see how its hitboxes are when it comes out.

No its not.

It is very easy to get a Warhawk's firepower levels up to the 70-80 range which is what most Dire Wolves put out. It just does it in a different way, missiles and energy instead of Dakka.

Also it is much faster than the Dire and alot more agile.

The Gargoyle can go either way. Honestly its firepower levels aren't bad with 6-8 energy mounts or 1 Ballastic, 1 Missile and up to 6 energy. Also humanoid mechs tend to be able to torso twist defensively very well which could be a big advantage. Also with a 400XL engine it is going to be at the peak of agility and speed for a 80 ton mech.

[Alistair Winter]

Ted Wayz, on 24 November 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Think I will scout with the Mad Cat from now on.

[Greenjulius]

Any way you shake it, the Mist Lynx isn't a good mech. I've struggled to make it work in a number of configs, and only had success with 4xML and 4xSPL. Both allowed me to do 890 / 850 damage and 3-4 kills.

The problem is, that's where it tops out. You can only have a successful game as long as the enemy team is ignoring you. That's how I get my good matches with it; pray the enemy doesn't take me seriously.

However, if you get a halfway decent enemy, they know they can wipe the floor with you and usually do. Firestarters will chase you down and annihilate you because they know you're too slow and hot. Same goes for Jenners. I've had artillery strikes called down on just myself because the enemy knows I'm an easy kill, and will lose most of my armor to a couple strikes.

I don't think the Mist Lynx is going to be saved by anything less than a complete revamp or massively improved omnipods. Its model is fine with the obvious exception of the huge arms, which evaporate the moment it gets looked at by anything above 40 tons. Its specs are atrocious. The small engine with too many external heatsinks hurts it's heat efficiency, while the complete lack of tonnage prevents it from using anything more than smalls and mediums, or a single large laser. It's effectively half as useful as a Kitfox, but can only run 18kph faster. I never thought a mech could be less useful than the Locust.

It has a couple saving graces however; It's jumpy, which is fun and allows for some creative positioning as well as ability to sometimes escape pursuers. It's body size is small, so I still have hope that the arms will be fixed. If it could remove the CAP, it might have some utility as a ECM/PPC harrasser. At the moment that's not useful simply because you have to remove too much armor to do it.

One last possible fix for it is the possible option for the "F" variant with 4xEnergy in each arm and ECM in a side torso. That could turn it into an 8xERSL powerhouse. But of course, we can't have nice things.

Anyone who compares it to the Ice Ferret is making a grave mistake. The Ferret can bring decent firepower (2xERLL) with good cooling, and run 142kph while doing it. It's not a competitive mech, but can hold its own. I've had several 1000+ matches with it, as well as a couple 7 kill games. The Lynx? It's as close to DOA as we will probably see. It didn't migrate from tabletop well.

Edited by Greenjulius, 25 November 2014 - 07:35 AM.

[DasSibby]

aniviron, on 25 November 2014 - 04:49 AM, said:

All the lasers sounds neat, but doesn't really amount to much on the Nova.

I actually busted out my captured (shifty eyes) Nova this last weekend, and got a TON of kills! Like 2-5 each match. (That may have partially been because of the Tournament... but whatever...)

I run mine with 4 MG's (yummy internals+minimal heat), with 8 small lasers (not pulse) to save space. Slap AMS and as many heat sinks as you can in there... and you've actually got a powerful mech. It's no frontline mech because it can't take damage... but it works!

[Greenjulius]

DasSibby, on 25 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

I actually busted out my captured (shifty eyes) Nova this last weekend, and got a TON of kills! Like 2-5 each match. (That may have partially been because of the Tournament... but whatever...)

I run mine with 4 MG's (yummy internals+minimal heat), with 8 small lasers (not pulse) to save space. Slap AMS and as many heat sinks as you can in there... and you've actually got a powerful mech. It's no frontline mech because it can't take damage... but it works!

I've never understood all the Nova hate. It's not a good mech, but at least it has options and firepower.

Players who bash the Nova should try out the Lynx. The Nova actually looks competitive in that context.