113 replies to this topic

[Desintegrator]

Double XP not working on Friday evening...Thanks PGI.

[YUyahoo]

Cimarb, on 29 November 2014 - 12:48 AM, said:

It is based on the equipment on it and is a straight cbill>MC conversion. The Huginn is a Hero mech, which does not follow the same pricing structure.

My point here is it's pricing is out of line with other mechs in its weight class and chassis...as far as I can see all other chassis follow the same pattern...champions more expensive than standard mechs, Heroes more expensive than champions EXCEPT the raven, which just doesn't seem right no matter what equipment it carries...no champion mech should cost more than a hero (and that appears to be the pattern PGI has followed until now)!

Edited by YUyahoo, 29 November 2014 - 02:16 AM.

[Cimarb]

YUyahoo, on 29 November 2014 - 02:13 AM, said:

My point here is it's pricing is out of line with other mechs in its weight class and chassis...as far as I can see all other chassis follow the same pattern...champions more expensive than standard mechs, Heroes more expensive than champions EXCEPT the raven, which just doesn't seem right no matter what equipment it carries...no champion mech should cost more than a hero (and that appears to be the pattern PGI has followed until now)!

They have not changed anything. There are just different pricing structures for different types of mechs.

Standard Variants and Champions are priced on a straight cbill to MC conversion. I do not have the exact formula handy, but it is roughly 2500 cbills per MC. So, the 3L, which costs 5,862,992 cbills, comes out to 2,345.1968, which is rounded up to the listed 2,350 MC. While the 3L(C) does not list the cbill cost (since there is none, as you cannot buy it for cbills), you can use that same conversion rate to calculate the cbill cost of its loadout, which is different than the standard 3L: 2940 MC = ~7,350,000 cbills. That difference is because of the more expensive loadout on the Champion over the Standard.

Hero variants, on the other hand, are the same cost regardless of what loadout is equipped on them: 75 MC per ton. That means a Hero Raven (such as the Huginn), is going to cost 2,625 MC (35*75=2675), unless it happens to be on sale, like the Huginn currently is. If they made a Raven Hero with the exact same loadout as the 3L(C), it would STILL be 2,625 MC.

Ala Carte and package mechs are a totally different pricing system altogether, at $35 or $55 depending on tech level for ala carte and $20 or $30 per tier for packages. Like Hero variants, this is completely regardless of loadout, but also regardless of tonnage.

[YUyahoo]

Cimarb, on 29 November 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

They have not changed anything. There are just different pricing structures for different types of mechs.

Standard Variants and Champions are priced on a straight cbill to MC conversion. I do not have the exact formula handy, but it is roughly 2500 cbills per MC. So, the 3L, which costs 5,862,992 cbills, comes out to 2,345.1968, which is rounded up to the listed 2,350 MC. While the 3L(C) does not list the cbill cost (since there is none, as you cannot buy it for cbills), you can use that same conversion rate to calculate the cbill cost of its loadout, which is different than the standard 3L: 2940 MC = ~7,350,000 cbills. That difference is because of the more expensive loadout on the Champion over the Standard.

Hero variants, on the other hand, are the same cost regardless of what loadout is equipped on them: 75 MC per ton. That means a Hero Raven (such as the Huginn), is going to cost 2,625 MC (35*75=2675), unless it happens to be on sale, like the Huginn currently is. If they made a Raven Hero with the exact same loadout as the 3L(C), it would STILL be 2,625 MC.

Ala Carte and package mechs are a totally different pricing system altogether, at $35 or $55 depending on tech level for ala carte and $20 or $30 per tier for packages. Like Hero variants, this is completely regardless of loadout, but also regardless of tonnage.

Cimarb I appreciate the "lesson" in math but I don't understand the effort you put in trying to defend PGI's actions here. All the math in the world can't accurately justify the pricing of the 3L(c) since there is no Cbill cost for the mech and no mech's cbill cost is exactly equal to the cost of its components...sure mechs that have more expensive components generally have a more expensive Cbill cost and therefore a more expensive MC cost but if one mech of the same chassis has an ER LL rather than a LL and all the other equipment is identical the cost for the ER LL mech is not exactly 200,000cbills (the difference in price between an ER LL and LL) more than the LL mech. What I'm trying to say here is that PGI has the ability to and quite frequently does take CREATIVE LIBERTIES in determining the costs and prices for their products and one of those liberties (prior to the release of the 3L(c)) appears to be a decision that HERO mechs will be more expensive than CHAMPION mechs (as you say despite whatever components they have). There isn't one other mech currently available that breaks this "formula" other than the 3L(c) (even the Cataphract 3D(c) is LESS than the IM). Given that we don't know the Cbill cost of the 3L(c) and the fact that PGI can take CREATIVE LIBERTIES they can very easily say "hmmm since the Huggin costs 2625mc and no other champion mech in our game costs more than its hero we can set(or change) the price of the 3L(c) to follow this formula and reduce its 2940mc price to be under 2625mc and follow the SAME format as EVERY OTHER MECH CHASSIS currently in our game".
Cimarb as a fellow player of this game, who like me has likely spent $100s on the game and as someone who has a much higher and more respected reputation than I do, I don't know why you can't stand up for your fellow MWO players instead of your persistence in defending or trying to justify PGI's actions. Is it really so hard to look at this objectively and say "hey, maybe this guy has a point, maybe this time the MC cost is actually too high given the format for every other mech in the game". I don't know why that is so difficult to admit (well unless you are secretly a part owner of PGI or on PGI's payroll or something, I mean no insult to you here but that is the only reason I can see why someone could be so "pro corporate")

*also apologies for the use of caps above...not mad or angry or trying to troll, just trying to emphasize points that don't seem to be getting across

[Cimarb]

YUyahoo, on 29 November 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Cimarb I appreciate the "lesson" in math but I don't understand the effort you put in trying to defend PGI's actions here.

Actually, maybe if you would re-take that math lesson, you might learn WHY it is priced that way, as I detailed it out for you. It is a formula that EVERY champion mech follows. Just because you cannot buy a champion mech for cbills does not mean that it is not based upon that value. It is a straight conversion.

[YUyahoo]

Cimarb, on 29 November 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

Actually, maybe if you would re-take that math lesson, you might learn WHY it is priced that way, as I detailed it out for you. It is a formula that EVERY champion mech follows. Just because you cannot buy a champion mech for cbills does not mean that it is not based upon that value. It is a straight conversion.

Actually I suppose I was wrong in trying to reason with you because it seems you are only able to conceive of one opinion, your own. So I'll do it your way, with "math"...how many mechs have a Cbill cost exactly equal to their component cost? How many other Chassis offer a champion mech MORE expensive than its hero mech other than the 3L(c) despite whatever the individual cost of the mechs equipment? The answer to both is 0/NONE...therefore the pricing of the 3L(c) is both not in line with EVERY other mech currently in the game and TOO HIGH! Even when shown the trees you just can't admit that you are in fact standing in a Forrest can you?

[Cimarb]

YUyahoo, on 29 November 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

Actually I suppose I was wrong in trying to reason with you because it seems you are only able to conceive of one opinion, your own. So I'll do it your way, with "math"...how many mechs have a Cbill cost exactly equal to their component cost? How many other Chassis offer a champion mech MORE expensive than its hero mech other than the 3L(c) despite whatever the individual cost of the mechs equipment? The answer to both is 0/NONE...therefore the pricing of the 3L(c) is both not in line with EVERY other mech currently in the game and TOO HIGH! Even when shown the trees you just can't admit that you are in fact standing in a Forrest can you?

I am still waiting on the math...

How about you stop looking in the forest (see how I spelled that?) and try reading the math that I provided already?

Also, I recommend you read this: http://mwomercs.com/...cing-breakdown/

Amazing what happens when you actually DO the math, instead of just yelling from the trees...

[Alaskan Nobody]

Cimarb, on 29 November 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

I am still waiting on the math...

I think it is more that he disagrees on the reasoning FOR the math.

IE: the raven is not worth as much as the others, so it should be cheaper kind of thing
(though not necessarily that exactly)

[Cimarb]

Shar Wolf, on 29 November 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

Cimarb - for all his lack of understanding - has been polite.

Thanks, but there is no lack of understanding on my part. Math is very understandable, and just because he does not like it, does not make anything I said false. The formula is the same for every Standard/Champion mech, including the Raven 3L(C). Add up the total of all equipment/parts, and divide by 2500, and that gives you the MC cost. Not much to understand. actually.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Cimarb, on 29 November 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Thanks, but there is no lack of understanding on my part.

Actually, there does seem to be, as it is not the math that he disagrees with.

[TercieI]

xengk, on 29 November 2014 - 12:25 AM, said:

DAYUM

Nice damage, but: Please.



Anybody break 20k? I've hit 16 a few times, this was my high.

--------------

For those of you debating Champion pricing: It's always 25% over standard variant pricing. This leads to ridiculous bargains (JR7-F(C) and CDA-2A(C)) and terrible ripoffs (CTF-3D(C)), essentially based on engine type, but most mechs are somewhere in the middle. The RVN-3L(C) is overpriced because the RVN-3L base model has an XL210 in it, so is fairly pricey for a 35-ton mech (vs. the FS9-S(C) related to a base model that has a STD engine). Is this a good model? No, I really don't think it is. Base models are priced on components, champions (and heroes) probably should be too, but...they never have been. So while the model may stink, it's consistent and predictable.

Edited by Terciel1976, 29 November 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[A sebaceous cyst]

Shar Wolf, on 29 November 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Since you have yet to figure it out (despite being told TWICE now)

THIS IS NOT WHERE THE FEEDBACK YOU ARE GIVING GOES

Keep trying to put it here - and I WILL report you for trolling

Can you just leave the guy alone and drop it? You are worse than what you are accusing this guy of doing and I'm almost tempted to report you for trolling! Please lets just all get along

[Sky Hawk]

With the x2.5 XP, I had a 250 XP match in my JR7-D.. I really hope, because this weekend, I can full-master it... and must never see it again... ever...

[Alaskan Nobody]

Sky Hawk, on 29 November 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

With the x2.5 XP, I had a 250 XP match in my JR7-D.. I really hope, because this weekend, I can full-master it... and must never see it again... ever...

250XP?

That is.... really low.

[A sebaceous cyst]

Shar Wolf, on 29 November 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

Far as I am aware - it was already already over.
Dude is already on my ignore list.
Thank you for trying to keep it goin though.

Sorry I am just reading this now, I didn't mean to perpetuate or imitate anyone's bad behavior and I know this is totally off topic but you say there is an ignore list? where would I find that information because there are 3 people I would love to put on such a list of my own

[Alaskan Nobody]

A sebaceous cyst, on 29 November 2014 - 06:26 PM, said:

Sorry I am just reading this now, I didn't mean to perpetuate or imitate anyone's bad behavior and I know this is totally off topic but you say there is an ignore list? where would I find that information because there are 3 people I would love to put on such a list of my own

Under your profile settings.

Sadly it lacks some functionality - as you still receive notification when someone on it quotes you (which I have had several people admit to using to irritate others)

And I apologize if I was somewhat rude to you, I had more than grown tired of listening to him whine - and my first thought on seeing your quote was that you would be an alt-account of his.
(another thing I have experienced multiple people being foolish enough to admit to doing in their arguments against me - often enough at least that after his other posts it was in my expectations)

[Worm Seraphin]

A good lesson learned here. In the world of computers, and thus our modern society, math rules and common sense means nothing

[A sebaceous cyst]

Shar Wolf, on 29 November 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:

Under your profile settings.

Sadly it lacks some functionality - as you still receive notification when someone on it quotes you (which I have had several people admit to using to irritate others)

And I apologize if I was somewhat rude to you, I had more than grown tired of listening to him whine - and my first thought on seeing your quote was that you would be an alt-account of his.
(another thing I have experienced multiple people being foolish enough to admit to doing in their arguments against me - often enough at least that after his other posts it was in my expectations)

Thank you. And no sir, not me. I do think you are being a little too harsh and judgmental on they guy though, he did have a somewhat valid point. I'm pretty new here myself and I know what it can be like in forums, say the wrong thing to the wrong person and suddenly you have a ton of veteran players jumping all over you...it can feel like you are being attacked. As a disinterested 3rd party looking at the conversation from the outside thats what appears to have happened here. Just my perspective, I mean no disrespect. Thanks for the info...see you the battlefield

[Alaskan Nobody]

Worm Seraphin, on 29 November 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

.....common sense means nothing

Did we move to Gensokyo when I was not looking?

( )

A sebaceous cyst, on 29 November 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

Thank you. And no sir, not me. I do think you are being a little too harsh and judgmental on they guy though, he did have a somewhat valid point.

My big problem with him was that he was actively unwilling to allow for things as they were - even AFTER being explained to him multiple times.

I do not always like the reasons for things either - but calling someone stupid for trying to explain the reasons for it is asking for trouble.

[A sebaceous cyst]

Shar Wolf, on 29 November 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Did we move to Gensokyo when I was not looking?

( )


My big problem with him was that he was actively unwilling to allow for things as they were - even AFTER being explained to him multiple times.

I do not always like the reasons for things either - but calling someone stupid for trying to explain the reasons for it is asking for trouble.

Honestly, I didn't get that out of the conversation at all, I think that was entirely your perspective I am sorry to say. What I did see is someone expressing an opinion (perhaps a little too adamantly), getting frustrated when that person was getting told why his opinion is wrong and then being threatened for defending that opinion. I mean honestly, even after you were able to comprehend what he meant and he agreed with you you snapped at him for continuing a topic that should perhaps be in another part of the forums...a conversation you yourself were participating in as have several others (myself now included I suppose too). And herein is the problem with written conversations versus spoken conversations...one person reads a joke, anther reads an insult but neither is the intention of what the writer meant. Again, I mean no disrespect and I don't mean to go on about this but I don't see this the same way you do, sorry. And now I'm going to bow out and go back to killing the dreaded red team!