199 replies to this topic

[Kilo 40]

DaZur, on 29 November 2014 - 11:59 PM, said:

Commando...

"biddi-biddi-biddi f*** you LRMs!"

Edited by Kilo 40, 30 November 2014 - 12:10 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

We are close to real walkers of some sort, the main issues are going to be cost and affordability against all of the other R&D projects being funded, and potential future needs of the military.

So if somebody finds an affordable way to make something that fills a niche, it has an opportunity to get funded for further development and eventual deployment.

If I were to pick a design style for a real-life mech, I'd say it most likely will be a ballistic or missile heavy platform, possibly similar to an even more primitive Mackie that could run on three to four legs over very rough/mountainous terrain.

So for real-life militaries, the design of a walker battle platform is most likely going to for deployment in very rough terrain areas where tanks, planes and infantry function poorly in, compared to the potential performance of the walkers.

Thus the need for further testing and development of such tech in combat situations; and why it would take a while to see a walker of any kind to see an actual battlefield in the future.

[HlynkaCG]

The Mad Cat and Vulture are both horrible designs from a practical engineering stand-point. They're too heavy, too tall and horribly unstable when in motion. (AKA very easy to trip) Realistically 20 tonnes or so is pretty much the upper bounds for bipedal motion as any heavier and your mech would need to be fitted with "snowshoes" to keep from sinking into unprepared ground as if it were fresh mud.

The only mechs in MWO that look like that could actually be built to spec are the Adder and the Kit-Fox.

Many of the Humanoid Lights could also be built but they would have to function more like the AMPs in Avatar than anything in the BTU.

Popper100, on 29 November 2014 - 11:02 PM, said:

I believe the naysayers are forgetting a few crucial features that have made Mechs the number one fighting machine in the Battletech universe...

The Battletech universe bears little resemblance to this one. Modern combat vehicles operate on a kill first or be killed doctrine because it is a lot easier to blow stuff up than it is to armor something against that same explosion. The inverse square law being what it is, Tanks will always have thicker armor and bigger (more stable) guns than any legged vehicle.

If you can armor a bipedal mech to withstand multiple 150mm rounds armoring a tank to withstand 150mm rounds along with airstrikes and heavy artillery should be relatively simple.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 30 November 2014 - 12:33 AM.

[HlynkaCG]

Nick Makiaveli, on 29 November 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

Physics dictate that mechs would collapse under their own weight. The materials just don't exist to support that kind of weight in those dimensions.

The largest mechs are only 100 tonnes or so and 16 meters tall. This falls well within the boundaries of modern material science. The problem is making them able to walk without falling over or getting bogged down in the mud. Mud in this case being any terrain that is not reinforced concrete.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 30 November 2014 - 12:40 AM.

[Saobh]

In real life all our Mechs would get blown to smithereens by cheap hellfire type missles fired from UAVs flying high in the sky piloted by people safe in a bunker on an other continent...

No amount of Armor on these things could resits even today's missile technology.

But that wouldn't make for a fun board game ^^

[Cyborne Elemental]

Once the power issue is solved, its still a matter of money.

500 soldiers that can go just about anywhere when properly equipped,
or 1 giant robot that costs billions of dollars and sticks out like a sore thumb on the battlefield, with the potential to nuke itself and any surrounding units nearby.

At best, we'll probably see something like the Elemental, power assist armor with some heavier weaponry, and if we're lucky, small mechs like the Locust or Wasp.

Giant mechs like the Diashi or Atlas just will not happen, sadly.

[Wrathful Scythe]

I just want to see a modernised version of the Maus or, to be even more ludicrous, the "Ratte"

[StraferX]

If I had to be a guessing man I would say the King Crab for sure.

With humans now landing on comets we will have comet mining soon and our periodic table will have some new materials to entertain.

I would think a proper mech would be a quadruped with the ability to fly, not just JJ but to fly away.

With major advancements in unmanned drones and the silence they are capable of I think we will see many more of them on the battle field eliminating human involvement. Drones could drop ravens and locust and over take a nuclear plant or military base.

[KuroNyra]

Hum...
IS : Hunchback or Stalker.
Clan: Timber Wolf or Dire Wolf.

[Torgun]

I think Jenner makes a lot of sense, flat and aerodynamic piece of metal with legs.

[Kyle Travis]

In terms of the problems with weight and size and movement - didn't seem to be a problem for megafauna in prehistory?

[Torgun]

Kyle Travis, on 30 November 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

In terms of the problems with weight and size and movement - didn't seem to be a problem for megafauna in prehistory?

I think that's because we've yet to invent a material that can constantly renew and strengthen its' own structure like a living creature's bones can? That would mean we have to replace the parts of large mechs quite often before it breaks, which is quite costly and a big waste of time.

Edited by Torgun, 30 November 2014 - 05:28 AM.

[HlynkaCG]

Kyle Travis, on 30 November 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

In terms of the problems with weight and size and movement - didn't seem to be a problem for megafauna in prehistory?

Even "light" mechs in the BT universe are larger than the largest dinosaurs ever were. Archaeologists estimate that an adult T-Rex would have tipped the scales at 7.5 tonnes, there is a world of difference between 7.5 tonnes and 75.0.

[Impyrium]

BT 'Mechs are designed to be anything but realistic. Everything from their shape, purpose and maintainability. IMO the most damning element is that BT depicts damage extremely abstractly. In real life, weapons fire on the scale that BT depicts would disable a 'Mech much quicker than the constant armour numbers we have now. All it take is a simple shot to a join to send it sprawling.

So ultimately, a tank is going to be more cost effective compared to BT designs. I'm not ruling out realistically designed walkers, but I don't really think BT designs are real life viable. Although I'm tempted to say the UrbanMech...

[Nightshade24]

ironicly every real life mech design is going for a humanoid approach. so something like a timberwolf or a mad dog is the least realistic in this point of view.
(real life mech, made in japan. I believe it'll be available for public purchase soon.)


Also USA is working to make something quite similar to the basis of the Battlearmour/ protomech

So... to answer your question.

The mech I think that'll be out will be...

A) if it's going to be fully for combat reasons. It'll be a protomech or a battlearmour. at least an ultra light mech or a quad.

Tarantula
Bogart
Triton
Sprite

etc...

For reason

mainly as an armed search and rescue operation (or unarmed).

Basicly any slow light or medium mech with arms and actuators as well as hands. But this will most likely appeal to industrial mechs.

Things like a slow commando or a spider. Maybe a sprite, etc.

C) agraculture and industrial works.

This is the most realistic as a mech has lots off applications here.

mechs like the harvester ant, harvester, agromech II, etc can go well...

Harvester ant combat variants will most likely be used in poor countries and such. like the MG variant or the LRM carrier variant.


Battlearmour is more likely but this question was mechs, not battlearmour.

Tanks, helicopters, etc do better at combat and for a better cost and can be as effective as a mech atm then a mech. Mechs also use a special sciency stuff that basically is artificial muscle, this isn't that far in the future, but for a scale size and strong enough to be used for a mech and for cheaply as well as sustain combat damage isn't likely... (didn't early myomer in BT explode when exposed to most gasses?)

Agracultural and industrial uses as well as rescue operations (especially in an earthquake situation) would be most likely...

I swear if christchurch (where I'm at) had a 10 ton mech to lift all that ruble and stuff it could have saved 90% of the people in the earthquake... most people died due to people unable to reach them in time with cranes and drills and stuff...

It's heart ranching looking at my friend on the phone with this mother who's bleeding and starving to death under the rubble =l

Also in mining and stuff, a mech can provide oxygen and protection from fires... and also can save the miners and make an exit in situation of the exit being blocked.

edit: pics yet again no work on forum

[Kyle Travis]

The biggest dinos went well over 100 tons, most of the big ones are quadrapeds but some of the Ornithipods reached 25 tons and are thought to run on 2 legs, balanced by a tail (something Mechs do lack - currently)

Spinosaurus may have been upto 20 tons but they are not sure

[Squirtbox]

Kyle Travis, on 30 November 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

The biggest dinos went well over 100 tons, most of the big ones are quadrapeds but some of the Ornithipods reached 25 tons and are thought to run on 2 legs, balanced by a tail (something Mechs do lack - currently)

Spinosaurus may have been upto 20 tons but they are not sure

uhm gonna need some references for that claim.

[Burktross]

Squirtbox, on 30 November 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

uhm gonna need some references for that claim.

http://www.cnn.com/2...-huge-dinosaur/
Maybe not 100, but 65 is within heavy range.

[Sug]

Scratx, on 29 November 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

Also, you severely underestimate the complexity of what a mech interior must be like, and the number of moving parts inherent to the motive system. Seriously, actuators alone? Then the gyro? Ow.

Squirtbox, on 29 November 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Also the insane number of moving parts in a mech would be a nightmare to repair or conduct any sort of maintenance on.

I always had the impression that mechs were relatively simple to fix. They don't bother fixing engines and gyros they just replace them. The cockpit is probably the most complex thing.

As for the interior, mechs don't move like anything we have now. It's a musculature system over a skeleton. It's probably less complex than our limbs. Just a endo steel bone and some myomer muscle.

It's probably hardest to fix the magic ammo feed from the legs to the arms....

Edited by Sug, 30 November 2014 - 12:04 PM.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Ice Ferret, easily.
Just add arms and legs.
Instead of "Koshi" it should have been named "Reizouko"

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 30 November 2014 - 08:59 AM.