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Tm T-Flight Hotas X Throttle Unit Modding Project


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#21 mclang

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 01:33 AM

Now I understand... Somehow I missed that BU thing when I read your post first time.

Thanks for the info, it is very interesting to follow these kind of projects event though it may well be that I myself don't have the time to do the same.

#22 evilC

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 01:36 PM

OK, so I hit a bit of a roadblock.

The rudder mod is proving harder than anticipated - it is very hard to keep something stuck to the axle of the rudder rocker, and there is very little space for movement in that area.

BUT, there is hope!

I have worked out a new technique for the rudder rocker, and it may actually end up being a lot simpler and way more robust.

Basically, the old pot for the rudder also has a hole on the back of it that rotates as the pot is turned.
So the plan is to cut away the plastic enclosing the back of the pot and insert a 2mm rod into the hole.

Then get a couple of bits of hollow tubing of 2 different sizes and stack them so as to turn the 2mm outside diameter of the rod into a 4mm inside diameter tube, into which the hall sensor will fit.
Then it would be v simple to mount the magnets either side of that - a nice flat surface already exists in the form of the pot housing, so I can just extend that out with some plastic sheeting.

Have next week off, so hopefully I can get this all working before CW hits :)

Edited by evilC, 10 December 2014 - 01:37 PM.


#23 cx5

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 12:52 AM

Hi evilC

If only you had zero costs access to a 3D printer........ which I'm in Hong Kong, got a friend own a good 3D printer, we could make you all the plastic parts to whatever you need, just shipping costs would be ridiculous :(.

In fact his is a dual 3D_print + CNC, means we could fabricate all the aluminum parts, as well as CNC PCB for you. If you have friend's on work trip flying to Hong Kong, we could pass to him to pass to you.

I've got a Hotas X. Appreciate & understand deep down to blood's NDA depth of everything you do!!!! Salute !!!

#24 evilC

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 01:41 AM

If I had access to a 3D printer, I would design my own throttle :)

Anyway, I completed the rudder mod last night, and the new technique has worked a charm.

Here is a simple diagram showing what I did:

Posted Image
So glue a 2mm axle into the hole on the back of the pot (I used a cut up 2mm drill bit), then use some sleeves to expand that 2mm Outside Diameter rod to a 4mm Inside Diameter tube.
I used brass.
My largest sleeve is crimped slightly at the end, so the tube does not need to be as wide as the sensor. This also means it sits in place without the need for glue as the sensor is flat, not round.

Will post pics at some point over the weekend.

Edited by evilC, 12 December 2014 - 09:20 AM.


#25 mclang

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Posted 15 December 2014 - 01:12 AM

Your project makes my to want to build my own throttle.
Too bad that if I go the same route than you, I have to buy that HOTAS X just to get that throttle half... I don't need the joystick b/c I got Thrustmaster Warthog Flight Stick really cheap.

You propably has searched for possible throttle grips that could be used to build your own... And I presume buying HOTAS X is the best way to go, I mean the quality of the throttle base and grip is enough good to make modding worthwhile?

#26 cx5

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 07:51 PM

View PostevilC, on 12 December 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

If I had access to a 3D printer, I would design my own throttle :)


You're absolutely RIGHT!!!

View Postmclang, on 15 December 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

I have to buy that HOTAS X just to get that throttle half..


Please don't, it's not worth it this way. Only for those who HAD it like evilC. As for myself, I'm just having trouble with the stick first-order issue and not suffering with the stock throttle + rudder.

#27 evilC

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 04:52 AM

View Postcx5, on 16 December 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

View Postmclang, on 15 December 2014 - 01:12 AM, said:

I have to buy that HOTAS X just to get that throttle halfbase and grip is enough good to make modding worthwhile?


Please don't, it's not worth it this way. Only for those who HAD it like evilC.


Dunno what you are saying here, but there is nothing wrong with playing MWO with an unmodded Hotas X rudder as a left hand device.

Just as long as you don't try aiming with the stick ;)

#28 evilC

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 06:34 AM

Rudder mod updated with proper working technique in post #5.

#29 cx5

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 01:15 AM

View PostevilC, on 17 December 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Dunno what you are saying here, but there is nothing wrong with playing MWO with an unmodded Hotas X rudder as a left hand device.


He was asking if he should buy T.Flight Hotas X just to use the throttle+rudder, which I replied NO. I should have added that he could have used the money to buy a throttle+rudder only, instead of knowingly buy a stick to be not used. Funnily I don't know if a standalone throttle+rudder is available for sale or not, they all seem to come with stick. This makes my reply to him 50% invalid. Hhahahahaha.


The update mod to post #5 looks beautiful !!!! especially after the cover.

Edited by cx5, 18 December 2014 - 01:16 AM.


#30 mclang

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 05:12 AM

Thanks for the opinion cx5, made my mind clear.

Update mod looks good!

#31 evilC

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 01:58 PM

If you don't pay much for the Hotas X, then yeah it possibly is worth buying it for just the throttle+rudder unit.

The only other one I know of with a rudder rocker is the saitek x45 and that is 3x the price of the Hotas X and I do not like it much.

The only problem is, of course, that by default the Hotas X rudder needs to be plugged in to the joystick to work.
My mods remove that need.

Even without my mods, to get a decent throttle and stick, I would say it would be worth buying the hotas X for just the throttle, and if you need a stick as well, get a T1600M or something. Either do my mods to the Hotas X throttle, or just keep the stick plugged in but down the back of your desk.

Edited by evilC, 22 December 2014 - 01:59 PM.


#32 cx5

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 10:39 PM

View Postmclang, on 22 December 2014 - 05:12 AM, said:

Thanks for the opinion cx5, made my mind clear.

You're welcome.

View PostevilC, on 22 December 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

If you don't pay much for the Hotas X, then yeah it possibly is worth buying it for just the throttle+rudder unit.

just keep the stick plugged in but down the back of your desk.

Perfect answer :) - because when someone can get it around 50% of the price only = just buying the throttle+rudder.

Edited by cx5, 28 December 2014 - 10:39 PM.


#33 evilC

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 06:31 PM

I just opened up the joystick from this combo today for the first time and OH MY GOD!
This thing is the easiest mod-job ever. Basically you need to do the throttle mod for each axis, but it is unbelievably simple to mount the magnets as the old bits of plastic that used to hold the pots in place are shaped perfectly for this.
Literally all you would need to hall sensor mod this thing is 20 minutes, a chupa chups lolly, a hacksaw blade, a tube of super-glue and 2 magnets + the sensors.
The stick gimbals etc are encased in a block with the tension dial underneath. you could very easily remove the stick from the base and surface mount it into a sim-pit as it is just held in place by four screws.
I am very tempted to try and make an extended shaft stick with it.

I may have to have a play with MWO's absolute aim - is it workable with a high-accuracy, large-throw stick?

Here is a pic of the assembly with the old pots removed. Wedge something in the hole and it will rotate with the axis.
Notice the nice flat surfaces where the red wire passes by for somewhere convenient to attach magnets ;) Perfect!
Posted Image

It's worth noting that this is the older Top Gun Afterburner II model with the twist on the stick that the T-Flight Hotas X does not have.
I have not yet opened up my new Hotas X to check if the internals are the same.

Edited by evilC, 14 January 2015 - 06:50 PM.


#34 Foust

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 05:37 AM

View PostevilC, on 14 January 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

I may have to have a play with MWO's absolute aim - is it workable with a high-accuracy, large-throw stick?


Sadly no. There is a forced dead zone in the center of the stick movement regardless of what you have set for your stick. It is a lot better than the default, but still misses the mark.

#35 evilC

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:53 AM

View PostFoust, on 15 January 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:


Sadly no. There is a forced dead zone in the center of the stick movement regardless of what you have set for your stick. It is a lot better than the default, but still misses the mark.

If outputting via vjoy, I could, in theory, override this.
If I can work out the exact size of the deadzone, I could implement an "anti-deadzone" to immediately jump the stick to enough deflection to trigger movement in MWO.

Mind you, if they programmed it anything like the analog steering, not only is it an enforced deadzone, but a badly programmed deadzone - if there is a 5% dz and you move to 6% deflection, instead of getting 1% movement, you get 6%.

Is that how the dz is with absolute aim? If so, no point in trying to code around it, as you will always get a "jump" near the center.
Mind you, I don't see how it could be? If aim is absolute, there could be no dz in that sense as that would exclude you from aiming straight ahead??
I think I may have to do some testing to work out exactly how it works, but if anyone else already has all the data, please pass it on.

#36 Foust

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 06:59 AM

It is the bad dead zone. You get nothing over whatever the dead zone is, then you get it all. So you end up with a box around the center of your stick that is impossible to aim at from a fully centered state. (legs and torso centered)

#37 evilC

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 10:17 AM

View PostFoust, on 15 January 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

It is the bad dead zone. You get nothing over whatever the dead zone is, then you get it all. So you end up with a box around the center of your stick that is impossible to aim at from a fully centered state. (legs and torso centered)

Oh ye of little faith ;)

http://mwomercs.com/...-dead-zone-fix/

#38 evilC

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 10:44 AM

I also worked out that if you remove the bottom of the stick, you can remove the tension knob, which makes the stick unsprung.
So if you enlarge the hole in the bottom of the stick where the tension knob pokes through, you can switch between sprung and unsprung without removing the case.

#39 evilC

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 11:07 AM

I can now confirm that the T-Flight Hotas X internals (in terms of the mechanics of it, the T-Flight has different circuitry) is the same as the older Top Gun Afterburner models I was previously operating upon.

#40 Sgt Minuteman

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 11:44 AM

I use a Thrustmaster T16000m in my left hand as throttle and a Logitech G502 mouse for torso in my right hand. Using the stick as a throttle helps me to make turns easier: as when you move the stick left or right the throttle is eased back a bit reducing speed making tighter turns more intuitive. You won't get that using just a throttle. If you could mount the throttle handle of the HOTAS on the T16000m base it would make the ultimate MWO peripheral. You could use it like the joystick for turning and also have enough buttons for lots of weapons groups plus jumpjets. Using a mouse for aiming and weapon group 1 & 2 is a must.

Edited by Sgt Minuteman, 15 January 2015 - 11:45 AM.






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