15 replies to this topic

[Asmosis]

I'm clearly making some sort of obvious error, but if someone could point it out I'd appreciate it

chainfire repeats every 0.5 seconds

Clan UAC 5 with level 5 cooldown mod = 1.66 * 0.88 = 1.46 sec cooldown

3 UAC on chainfire should fire every 0.5 seconds so should be

UAC 1 fires
0.5
UAC 2 fires
0.5
UAC 3 fires
0.5
UAC 1 fires again, 1.5 seconds past so past the 1.46 sec mark and should not jam.

But they still do. Is it that they can jam on a single (primary) shot, cooldown mods aren't behaving as expected or chainfire is more rapid than 0.5sec?

*edit*
edited thread title based on last post.

Edited by Asmosis, 03 October 2014 - 04:39 AM.

[Ironwithin]

Nevermind, tried it out, doesn't matter if held down or just waiting and then clicking.

Ok, more testing: Chainfire has apparently no set minimum delay, it switches weapons and fires as soon as the firing cycle of the first weapon is done. In the case of C-UAC5s that seems to be less than 0.5seconds.

Edited by Ironwithin, 02 October 2014 - 06:44 AM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

You could build a macro for that weapon group and set the delay to your various timing settings.
- For testing only, to find the actual cycle time between the 3 UAC weapons.
- Setting the cycle fire and pause between them, but this can be altered from base settings by any module you may have loaded, so run it clean for the testing and do your trials there.
- Once the cycle is set correctly add the modules and redo the testing to confirm the changes.

This might be classed as a 'cheat' if it can only be accomplished with the macro and not normally done with just the mouse. So be VERY carful, and use it only for testing and confirmation of the values of the weapons and recycle timings.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 02 October 2014 - 12:02 PM.

[Bilbo]

Ironwithin, on 02 October 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

Nevermind, tried it out, doesn't matter if held down or just waiting and then clicking.

Ok, more testing: Chainfire has apparently no set minimum delay, it switches weapons and fires as soon as the firing cycle of the first weapon is done. In the case of C-UAC5s that seems to be less than 0.5seconds.

Chain fire has a set delay of .5 seconds. That is why heat penalties are set where they are. I have no idea how the UAC function in chain fire though as I never use them.

[Ironwithin]

Bilbo, on 02 October 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

Chain fire has a set delay of .5 seconds. That is why heat penalties are set where they are. I have no idea how the UAC function in chain fire though as I never use them.

I guess it's supposed to have a minimum delay of 0.5s, it doesn't work with 3 C-UAC5 for whatever reason.

[Grendel408]

9erRed, on 02 October 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Greetings all,

You could build a macro for that weapon group and set the delay to your various timing settings.
- For testing only, to find the actual cycle time between the 3 UAC weapons.
- Setting the cycle fire and pause between them, but this can be altered from base settings by any module you may have loaded, so run it clean for the testing and do your trials there.
- Once the cycle is set correctly add the modules and redo the testing to confirm the changes.

This might be classed as a 'cheat' if it can only be accomplished with the macro and not normally done with just the mouse. So be VERY carful, and use it only for testing and confirmation of the values of the weapons and recycle timings.

9erRed

Personally I feel macros are a method of cheating. It removes the need for a player to focus more on what he/she is doing and allow less management of the game... and brings a disadvantage to players not using macros. I'm still surprised the Devs allow it... macros on Clan uACs is just stupidly unfair as you can completely shred through almost anything with little chance of weapon jamming.

My unit (about 6 of us online w/randoms) got rolled by a group (10man + 2man) using all Clan mechs with exception of two IS Atlas DDCs (the 2man group) and they just mowed over anything in their path... not heavy on LRMs, just C-ERLLs, C-ERMLs and C-UACs.

If PGI is so concerned about balance, Macros should be banned, plain and simple.

[Jorgandr]

Bilbo, on 02 October 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

Chain fire has a set delay of .5 seconds. That is why heat penalties are set where they are. I have no idea how the UAC function in chain fire though as I never use them.

Except it doesnt.

Try putting large lasers on chain fire and holding the button down. Now try UAC's.

Chain fire is set to the firing sequence of the individual weapon.

Basically they want macro users to have an edge over non-macro.

[Asmosis]

well I guess that's begs the question, how many milliseconds does it take for clan UAC's to fire off their volley?

It would probably be good practice for PGI to put that into the weapon information since they clearly do have a delay (functionally same as lasers) yet show zero delay on weapon info.

So... delay on chainfire is either weapons delay (if it has one) or 0.5 seconds if your using weapons that don't have any firing delay (think IS autocannons/LBX).

Also one other interesting thing I noticed (old news I guess) is that while on group fire they wont trigger the "double tap" shot, but when in chainfire they do. Idk if that's intentional or not, be interesting toggle if a single UAC can be changed from "dbl tap" to "hold down" for burst fire just by changing chainfire.

*edit*

So I tested a single UAC5 in training grounds and again in a live match. fired continuously for 60 seconds and got off exactly 36 rounds which I what I was expecting.

60/36 = 1.66 = both cooldown module and the elite skill perk do not work. I want a refund on my 3 mil cbills now thanks

(also sidenote: above idea works, if you put a single UAC on chainfire it will auto repeat without tapping. doesn't work with UAC20 though)

Edited by Asmosis, 03 October 2014 - 01:09 AM.

[valinor89]

Asmosis, on 02 October 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

well I guess that's begs the question, how many milliseconds does it take for clan UAC's to fire off their volley?

It would probably be good practice for PGI to put that into the weapon information since they clearly do have a delay (functionally same as lasers) yet show zero delay on weapon info.

So... delay on chainfire is either weapons delay (if it has one) or 0.5 seconds if your using weapons that don't have any firing delay (think IS autocannons/LBX).

Also one other interesting thing I noticed (old news I guess) is that while on group fire they wont trigger the "double tap" shot, but when in chainfire they do. Idk if that's intentional or not, be interesting toggle if a single UAC can be changed from "dbl tap" to "hold down" for burst fire just by changing chainfire.

*edit*

So I tested a single UAC5 in training grounds and again in a live match. fired continuously for 60 seconds and got off exactly 36 rounds which I what I was expecting.

60/36 = 1.66 = both cooldown module and the elite skill perk do not work. I want a refund on my 3 mil cbills now thanks

(also sidenote: above idea works, if you put a single UAC on chainfire it will auto repeat without tapping. doesn't work with UAC20 though)

I believe that from the start, skills are not aplied in training grounds.

And chainfire is broken for some ballistics, in special AC2. I guess the rapid fire CUAC5 might have the same problems.

[Kmieciu]

Asmosis, on 02 October 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

60/36 = 1.66 = both cooldown module and the elite skill perk do not work. I want a refund on my 3 mil cbills now thanks

I'm assuming you are talking about C-ULTRA AC/5 because the IS ULTRA AC/5 does not have cooldown module yet?

The reason is simple - the cooldown starts AFTER the UAC burst ends.
According to the weapons.xml file there is a 0.15 second delay between shots. That means the 3rd round is fired 0.3 seconds after the first, hence the total rate of fire is 1 burst every 1.96 seconds.

Without the module you would be only able to fire 60/1,96 = 30 times.

[Widowmaker1981]

Grendel408, on 02 October 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Personally I feel macros are a method of cheating. It removes the need for a player to focus more on what he/she is doing and allow less management of the game... and brings a disadvantage to players not using macros. I'm still surprised the Devs allow it... macros on Clan uACs is just stupidly unfair as you can completely shred through almost anything with little chance of weapon jamming.

My unit (about 6 of us online w/randoms) got rolled by a group (10man + 2man) using all Clan mechs with exception of two IS Atlas DDCs (the 2man group) and they just mowed over anything in their path... not heavy on LRMs, just C-ERLLs, C-ERMLs and C-UACs.

If PGI is so concerned about balance, Macros should be banned, plain and simple.

please explain to me how you expect a game company to ban (or even detect) players using G15 keyboards?

[Asmosis]

Kmieciu, on 03 October 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

I'm assuming you are talking about C-ULTRA AC/5 because the IS ULTRA AC/5 does not have cooldown module yet?

The reason is simple - the cooldown starts AFTER the UAC burst ends.
According to the weapons.xml file there is a 0.15 second delay between shots. That means the 3rd round is fired 0.3 seconds after the first, hence the total rate of fire is 1 burst every 1.96 seconds.

Without the module you would be only able to fire 60/1,96 = 30 times.

Thanks, that does explain it. 1.66 * 0.83 = 1.37, plus 0.45 for 3 shot burst = 1.82, which explains the ~610ms I had to bump repeat fire up to to prevent jamming.

thread tldr; use 4 ac5's.

I'm still not sure why clan uac5's will burst fire on chain fire but uac20s don't though.

[Bilbo]

Jorgandr, on 02 October 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

Except it doesnt.

Try putting large lasers on chain fire and holding the button down. Now try UAC's.

Chain fire is set to the firing sequence of the individual weapon.

Basically they want macro users to have an edge over non-macro.

Last time I used chain fire for large lasers the second laser fired before the first finished burning. It's been a while since I've used it. Maybe they have changed it since then. I'll have to try it this weekend.

[Grendel408]

Widowmaker1981, on 03 October 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

please explain to me how you expect a game company to ban (or even detect) players using G15 keyboards?

I'm against macros for FPS gameplay... period. Especially that 3rd party Fire Control program floating about. Servers track all kinds of stats on players about what they do... it wouldn't be hard to determine something is being controlled via a macro setup. It would likely require some extensive and intelligent coding on PGI's part. But I personally believe macros to be an unfair advantage to those not using them because of choice or simply not knowing how to implement them. PGI would have to create something like what BF4 has to moderate players in-game, or would require PGI to monitor every single match being played... that alone is impossible. Basically... it's running a script to give you an advantage. See below quoted from PGI... Chat macros are okay... but allowing macros to control your rate of fire on a weapon known to jam to minimize/prevent it from jamming is an unfair advantage.

Quote

Third-Party Scripts, Hacks, Bots, etc. Abuse
Software that gives players an unfair and undue advantage, or otherwise exploits the game, are strictly prohibited. This includes, but is not limited to: Bots generated for running any of the above mentioned forms of griefing/exploits, scripts designed to negatively affect network connectivity, mods affecting the game UI, hacks providing information otherwise unavailable to the player, etc...
Exceptions to this are made on a case by case basis and currently including chat macros and third-party VoIP.

Quote

Q: My mouse/keyboard came with macro software that lets me emulate a series of clicks or helps me with some process. Is this allowed?

A: Yes, using macros as provided by 3rd party hardware vendors is allowed. Though the use of any modifications to assist with aiming, aimbots, wall hacks, or any attempt to give information or tactical assistance that other players would not have by default, is a serious violation of our Terms of Use and any account found to be using such software will likely be suspended or banned.

Edited by Grendel408, 03 October 2014 - 11:12 AM.

[Asmosis]

Grendel408, on 03 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

See below quoted from PGI... Chat macros are okay... but allowing macros to control your rate of fire on a weapon known to jam to minimize/prevent it from jamming is an unfair advantage.

nothing you quoted says or even implies that. PGI is quite comfortable with using macro's for weapons, that much is obvious from all the threads about auto hotkey or other things on the forums.

If there was an issue with it, they would have posted in any of the numerous threads about it. I can guarantee if a guide was posted on how to do something illegal (i.e. how to setup an aimbot) it would certainly get removed or locked.

They have setup an environment where macros are basically needed with their hard set invisible breakpoints with ghost heat, and the poor implementation + lack of customization on weapon groupings and default firing options.

I don't much like macros myself, but with the systems PGI have put in place to artificially handicap players they really should have some of these options (along with the voice/macro chat options) in the client to begin with.

Edited by Asmosis, 06 October 2014 - 02:50 AM.

[Stageman]

Hmmm....been reading this topic. I do have a thought that I don't see mentioned here...of course you can go the easy route with macros, not that I abide that sort of play, but it seems that the key to this module would be to AS with the UAC5s and then continue with CF right behind the AS to get the best effect from the cool down right? I am only referring to C-UAC5 cool down. I run the IS UAC5 cool down in my IM with 3X UAC5. I can definitely tell the difference there but the C-UAC5 fires much faster, hence, if i run that module in my clan mechs then the guns should fire faster right? otherwise its true that the module won't do anything unless you nerd out & cheat and built a macro, the devs wouldn't let this stand, no way!