32 replies to this topic

[DasSibby]

Did the Clan Side Torso Loss-Fix work? Discuss.

I haven't heard anyone talking about this for a while. So is everyone happy with this?

[Shae Starfyre]

This is one of those kind of ephemeral changes that are hard to quantify in the heat of battle and may only truly be noticeable by high heat builds that know when it is safe to fire or not, and suddenly find that their assumptions were wrong after loosing a side torso.

However, once said torso is loss, you have eliminated half of what caused the heat in the first place, thus, probably no real difference what-so-ever.

Personal Experience: I have not notice any differences; yet when faced with half my weapons gone, and half the generated heat, and most likely in a position that is going down hill fast, I fail to notice any appreciable differences.

Edited by Aphoticus, 02 December 2014 - 08:54 AM.

[superteds]

it's a bit like losing an energy arm padded with lots of DHS - if you lose that arm/side, you've probably lost the creator of the most of your heat issues anyway.

[QuantumButler]

Not really, since losing a side means you probably lost half of your heat generating guns anyway so you heat generation is way down.

[Dracol]

The asymmetrical builds do lose DPS when they lose their shield arms. See those types of TWolf builds less often these days.

[Felicitatem Parco]

It has very little effect. Losing 2 or 3 heatsinks matters little when you loss half your energy weapons at the same time.

I am surprised that knocking-out 2/3 of the engine's health is penalized so lightly.

[oneproduct]

I'm not happy with it. The main problem I have is that clan XL engines are just supposed to let you survive a side torso loss. What actually happens is that you lose your side torso and then gain a 50% damage shield for your CT when torso twisting and using your broken ST as a shield.

For mechs with standard engines this is fine, but for broken XL STs this 50% damage transfer shield needs a lower percentage.

[Shae Starfyre]

I would have like a 25-30% speed decrease as well as the heat aspect; if Clans get the shield as noted above, and no real difference in heat issues because of the subsequent loss of weapons, my can they get as much out of the engine partially destroyed as that of a non-damaged engine?

Energy Weapons should take longer to come back online to fire
Speed should be reduced
maybe even aim affected for balistics as recoil may be affected and not compensated appropriately by gyro, etc. due to the loss of an entire side of a mech and engine's ability to power said mech).

These kinds of things should be rampet throughout all mechs though whereby we have detrimental affects the more damaged we get.

[QuantumButler]

Aphoticus, on 02 December 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

I would have like a 25-30% speed decrease as well as the heat aspect; if Clans get the shield as noted above, and no real difference in heat issues because of the subsequent loss of weapons, my can they get as much out of the engine partially destroyed as that of a non-damaged engine?

Energy Weapons should take longer to come back online to fire
Speed should be reduced
maybe even aim affected for balistics as recoil may be affected and not compensated appropriately by gyro, etc. due to the loss of an entire side of a mech and engine's ability to power said mech).

These kinds of things should be rampet throughout all mechs though whereby we have detrimental affects the more damaged we get.

or maybe like, a big penalty to heat dissipation, not just 3 DHS worth, but enough to make frozen city feel like Mordor.

[Brody319]

I think people just realized "the weakness of clan mechs isn't to make them overheat, its to shoot them!"

[GonaDie]

Honestly, I forgot that this "penalty" was here.Never noticed any important changes in my heat bar.

[Ultimax]

Aphoticus, on 02 December 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

However, once said torso is loss, you have eliminated half of what caused the heat in the first place, thus, probably no real difference what-so-ever.
.

Asymmetric builds are usually the most optimal and often at the heart if true meta builds.

These builds are the most affected, which is good.

If you were running a symmetrical build and therefore not metagaming your build, then you are hurt less - but you were suboptimal to begin with.

That seems rather elegant to me.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 December 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[Shae Starfyre]

Ultimatum X, on 02 December 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

Asymmetric builds are usually the most optimal and often at the heart if true meta builds.

These builds are the most affected, which is good.

If you were running a symmetrical build and therefore not metagaming your build, then you are hurt less - but you were suboptimal to begin with.

That seems rather elegant to me.

When I build the asymmetrical meta builds, I try and place any other heat sinks in the same location, so, I don't experience any drawback from the loss of the side that doesn't matter.

The affect is really only useful for data gathering or slower game play or precision game play; in the heat of battle, this effect is never noticed.

[Khobai]

clan mechs still dont have quirks

so the combination of the heat increase for losing a side torso and balancing quirks should bring clan mechs into better parity with IS mechs.

[Shae Starfyre]

Khobai, on 02 December 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

clan mechs still dont have quirks

so the combination of the heat increase for losing a side torso and balancing quirks should bring clan mechs into better parity with IS mechs.

It speaketh, so it shall be so!

[Ultimax]

Aphoticus, on 02 December 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

When I build the asymmetrical meta builds, I try and place any other heat sinks in the same location, so, I don't experience any drawback from the loss of the side that doesn't matter.

The affect is really only useful for data gathering or slower game play or precision game play; in the heat of battle, this effect is never noticed.

You are still losing some internal, 2.0, DHS.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 December 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[Sorbic]

I definitely would have rather seen a small reduction in speed. As many have pointed out you're already losing much of what generated your heat. Combine that with the somewhat safer play many people slip into when missing a torso...

[Zypher]

The other thing to consider is that if you running around, shooting from different positions, torso twisting, etc. the damage on your mech is usually spread out a bit on all your torsos. By the time a torso is shot out your are pretty much dead anyhow, so no, you won't notice it for the most part.

[Shae Starfyre]

Ultimatum X, on 02 December 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

You are still losing some internal, 2.0, DHS.

I've been playing some pretty hot builds lately in my Dires and tend to favor one side over the other with hot weapons instead of equaling them out on each side; like balistics converging on the left and energy on the right for actuator, etc., and people invariably like to blow out the balistic side more often than not, and I have seen no appreciable difference in heat firing those energy weapons.

However, I bet, if I could pull combat logs of these efficiencies in action during the heat of battle, these affects might be tied to scales tipping to one side at the right moment on close battles.

I am sure they make a difference, it is just not easy to see it or feel it in battle.

I do recall one Dire and Atlas face off I swore I had, but he got me first, and instead of concentrating on my CT, he took out one side than the other; this particular build was 3 CUAC 20, and he took out the right side (only one CUAC 20), and I might have felt that there could have been more heat generated from my timed outburst of the two remaining CUAC20 as I did overheat at the end, and he won)...so, like I said, appreciable, noticeable, hard to tell, but certainly not without detailed merit at some point. It could very have been that the loss of my right side caused my heat to not dissapate fast enough to handle the two CUAC20 chain firing with occassional double-tap.

I play this build a lot and know how to fire all three continously for nearly a minute (may be slightly exagerated, but the point is the same) without overheating on the hottest maps; but it is a fine enough line that loosing a side can make or break that rythm.

Edited by Aphoticus, 02 December 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[DasSibby]

It looks like the difference this *fix* made is negligible because of torso twisting and loss of the heat generated by those weapons in that lost torso.

Hmm. I wonder if they added a mechanic similar to losing a leg... If that would do it. (I mean... You're losing 1/2 of your engine... You really shouldn't be able to drive at full speed right?)