65 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 December 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

I've been putting up 3-4 kill rounds with 700 damage in my single gauss stormcrow.

I have no doubt you do, but I'm willing to bet most of the damage and kills is coming from your other weapons when the fighting is inside of 500m and even then a sizable amount of the damage beyond that range is probably your other weapons as well. Sadly for the Clan mechs that one might want to use a single or even a pair of ballistics on the gauss rifle is generally the better way to go since their ACs are mostly anemic. I still don't like the mechanic because it feels disruptive and inefficient.

[Bront]

Honestly, I'd adjust the Gauss like clan autocannons, but not quite.

1) Split the gauss into 2 7.5 point shots. (Yes, I'm aware this raises the heat a bit, you can compensate by reducing the heat to .5 per shot if you wish)
2) Give each shot a 2.5 second cool down.
3) Make it fire immediately
4) Reduce projectile speed slightly (1800 maybe)
5) Remove the charge up mechanic
6) Double ammo (to compensate for the damage reduction)

Now you get a flexable weapon with FLPPD but not a single mech killing shot with 2.

[Lefty Lucy]

WarHippy, on 03 December 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I have no doubt you do, but I'm willing to bet most of the damage and kills is coming from your other weapons when the fighting is inside of 500m and even then a sizable amount of the damage beyond that range is probably your other weapons as well. Sadly for the Clan mechs that one might want to use a single or even a pair of ballistics on the gauss rifle is generally the better way to go since their ACs are mostly anemic. I still don't like the mechanic because it feels disruptive and inefficient.

My other weapons are 4 ERML. They're decent, but when my gauss arm gets taken out I become notably less deadly.

[WarHippy]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 December 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

My other weapons are 4 ERML. They're decent, but when my gauss arm gets taken out I become notably less deadly.

If you lost your lasers you would be notably less deadly as well... I am by no means saying that gauss is bad because it isn't. I just disagree with your assessment of the mechanic being fun. For me it is very much not fun, and I really wish they would get rid of it as it feels really out of place.

[Satan n stuff]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 December 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

You don't think that mechs that sacrifice the tonnage to use double gauss rifles should be deadly? They're the heaviest weapon for both IS and Clan.

I think the Clan version could use some sort of a nerf to make up for the fact that it's 3 tons lighter, but with clans generally dedicating more weight to engines it tends to balance out except on dire wolves.

The Dire is closer to IS mechs than you think, the PPFLD loadout ( double gauss double ER PPC ) on a dire weighs 36 tons + ammo and it has 10 tons in standard internal structure, on a King Crab ( assuming it will be possible ) it would weigh 44 tons + ammo with 5 tons in endo steel internal structure, meaning the loadout on the Dire is only 3 tons lighter in total.
The biggest advantage the Dire has here is it's Clan XL engine which saves a lot of weight with practically zero drawbacks, if PGI ever gets around to adding some sort of negative effect for a sidetorso destruction to compensate for that the King Crab might well end up being the better mech.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I know this isn't a popular idea (seeing as the Gauss charge mechanic is controversial), but I wouldn't mind the mechanic being added to PPCs and ERPPCs as well.

Just keep the charge mechanic quicker so that it doesn't sync up with the Gauss.

If adding a charge mechanic to PPCs meant they once agsin had usable heat and reasonable projectile travel speeds, I'm all for it.

[Lefty Lucy]

Satan n stuff, on 03 December 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

The Dire is closer to IS mechs than you think, the PPFLD loadout ( double gauss double ER PPC ) on a dire weighs 36 tons + ammo and it has 10 tons in standard internal structure, on a King Crab ( assuming it will be possible ) it would weigh 44 tons + ammo with 5 tons in endo steel internal structure, meaning the loadout on the Dire is only 3 tons lighter in total.
The biggest advantage the Dire has here is it's Clan XL engine which saves a lot of weight with practically zero drawbacks, if PGI ever gets around to adding some sort of negative effect for a sidetorso destruction to compensate for that the King Crab might well end up being the better mech.

That Clan XL is a huge difference. Basically you can do 2 IS gauss + 2 PPC and 12 IS DHS with 6 tons of ammo, endo, and a SFE. The DWF gets 2 clan gauss, 2 ERPPC, and 23 DHS with the same amount of ammo, or you can go for more ammo and less heat efficiency, or backup lasers, or whatever.

[Satan n stuff]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 December 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

That Clan XL is a huge difference. Basically you can do 2 IS gauss + 2 PPC and 12 IS DHS with 6 tons of ammo, endo, and a SFE. The DWF gets 2 clan gauss, 2 ERPPC, and 23 DHS with the same amount of ammo, or you can go for more ammo and less heat efficiency, or backup lasers, or whatever.

Did you even read the second half of my post?

[Lefty Lucy]

Satan n stuff, on 03 December 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

Did you even read the second half of my post?

Yes, but it's the first half that deals with the game as it exists right now (outside of the king crab hypothetical), and the direwolf with 48% cooling efficiency, higher damage, more range, and no minimum range is better than the kind crab with 41% heating efficiency, lower range, and a min range. The KGC looks even worse if you put ISERPPC on it (but who would, it's still a trash weapon).

[Revis Volek]

Brody319, on 03 December 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

Ac20s are funner.

So is proper use of the English language....

Have to agree with OP, this is one thing they found a really nice way to implement.

[Crockdaddy]

Athena Pryde, on 03 December 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

Gaus Rifle really should have a longer recycle time something on the order of 6+ seconds maybe even 7 or 8 and no gaus bow mechanic. I got used to it but it feels like I'm playing Skyrim with the Gaus Bow. I recall in other mech warrior games the Gaus had a fairly long cycle time of like 7 seconds.

I had to re-read this ... I would agree if the bow mechanic was removed. Six seconds would be fair I suspect, although the ability to fire at the drop of a button will make more than a few good / great players even that much more deadly. The bow mechanic while a pain and I hated it at first isn't all that bad. It keeps me from just insta popping lights and mechs with no armor. I have to plan shots slightly.

[Abivard]

Beliall, on 03 December 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Oh god here we go with the Gauss QQers. Gauss is fine and balanced just like the OP states. It doesnt need to be nerfed and sure as hell doesnt need a game breaking 7second cooldown.

LRM's have finally been nerfed into complete uselessness even in pug matches, so now comes the cry for Gauss nerfs, and then ERPPC, followed by UAC' then AC, then it's anyones guess.... SRM's, Pulse, regular laser....Pretty sure Flamers and MG's will be semi safe from nerfs until all the other weapons are reduced to the common core standards of the flamer.

[The Boz]

Lefty Lucy, on 03 December 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

You don't think that mechs that sacrifice the tonnage to use double gauss rifles should be deadly? They're the heaviest weapon for both IS and Clan.

I think the Clan version could use some sort of a nerf to make up for the fact that it's 3 tons lighter, but with clans generally dedicating more weight to engines it tends to balance out except on dire wolves.

How in the ever loving hell do you perform the mental gymnastics of "I'm faster, that is a drawback, so I get better weapons"!?

[Yosharian]

Sure, apart from the fact that it makes several mechs completely useless

[Mirumoto Izanami]

I have a lance mate who uses the gauss on the Battlemaster 3m. He's an absolute terror with it, even in close range combat.

The guass rifle is truly a weapon that is not meant for everyone. If you're keyed into the charge rate, then you can be awesome with it. If not, look elsewhere for firepower.

[topgun505]

Personally I hate the charge mechanic, but whatever.

I actually didn't mind GR back when the shots were slower and not effectively autohit. Actually took some skill hitting a target at long range downfield.

The only thing I'd like to see is miror the TT stats in regards to adding a minimum range. Yeah, I know it doesn't make fluff sense, but it'd be nice to see it have a small debuff such that if a hardcore brawler manages to survive his charge in to point blank range, he'll give a gauss-toting unit a hard time.

[Kutfroat]

the gauss rifle (dual gauss) is still not balanced. just compare it to the ac20(40). ac20 has ghost heat and is only really usefull at short range, because of slow projectile speed. so, an ac40 jagermech or catapult is deadly, close up. but if you see it and know it´s coming, you can just avoid it by staying at range and it is completely useless from medium to long range.

so...gauss rifle, no ghost heat, deadly at long range, deadly at short range, and still very dangerous or even deadly up close (maybe not for fast lights, but no one really has a problem hitting relatively slow mediums, heavies or assault mechs up close).

the gauss rifle has no disadvantage outside its optimal range. it is supposed to be a sniper weapon? than give it "the sniper rifle treatment", as soon as you start charging, automatically switch into advanced zoom mode, that will screw them over up close, like it should be. in no other shooter you can use a sniper rifle "unzoomed", you usually have no crosshair.

this or double the cooldown to screw their dps, or add the same amount of ghost heat to it as the ac20 has, or put in 270m minimum range. dualgauss needs to be screwed if something gets close, that should be the trade off.

you know it is "broken" if you watch "competitive" streamers and every single mech they play that can use a gauss rifle, uses it...

no one wants the gauss rifle to be useless, but why should a dedicated long range build (dual gauss) be nearly as dangerous close up as a pure brawler build (ac40)?

Edited by Kutfroat, 04 December 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[LordMelvin]

Abivard, on 03 December 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

LRM's have finally been nerfed into complete uselessness even in pug matches, so now comes the cry for Gauss nerfs, and then ERPPC, followed by UAC' then AC, then it's anyones guess.... SRM's, Pulse, regular laser....Pretty sure Flamers and MG's will be semi safe from nerfs until all the other weapons are reduced to the common core standards of the flamer.

Someone is already crying about SMPL on another thread. I saw it but laughed to hard to ridicule them properly.

Also flamers are op as all hell! They do so much damage and heat there's no countering them!

[Mirumoto Izanami]

topgun505, on 04 December 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

The only thing I'd like to see is miror the TT stats in regards to adding a minimum range. Yeah, I know it doesn't make fluff sense, but it'd be nice to see it have a small debuff such that if a hardcore brawler manages to survive his charge in to point blank range, he'll give a gauss-toting unit a hard time.

I feel like people asking for a hard minimum range for gauss rifles because of TT rules, don't really understand TT play. The minimum range for guass (and PPCs and LRMs) in TT is a soft minimum, not a hard minimum. You can still shoot at mechs within this range, you just get a negative modifier to your to-hit. However, a skilled pilot (ie, high gunnery skill) can negate that penalty and use such weapons effectively at all ranges.

With that in mind, the charge mechanic actually works well to represent this. Skilled players (pilots) can brawl well with a guass rifle despite its charge up, while average and bad pilots have trouble with it (and in all cases, more so with faster targets in close, further mirroring TT play).

Hard minimums like what the PPC and LRMs have are not reflective of the table top model, and neither would a hard minimum on a gauss rifle, and beyond that, hard minimums are a bad mechanic for direct fire weapons that do not arm. In the case of LRMs, it makes sense, and also is the one instance were I find the hard minimum acceptable because other ways of modeling such a large soft minimum range that LRMs hard in TT would be clunky. For the PPCs, I feel they should have a slight charge period instead of a minimum range.

TLDR: A hard minimum range for direct fire weapons makes no sense, and a charge periods (of varying degrees) actually reflects the soft minimum ranges that the direct fire weapons had in TT.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 04 December 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[The Image]

GoldenFleece, on 03 December 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

The fact that you can hit one single location for 30 points of damage at the range and projectile speed the Gauss Rifle has, is not right in terms of balance. It simply isn't.

Slowest recharge rate of any weapon in the game, EXCEPT for the LRM20, it can explode even when there is ZERO ammo available to charge the weapon.

AND it's the only weapon system that's limited to allowing firing 2 at a time MAXIMUM, and where if you enable CHAIN FIRE on a gauss weapon group actually "BREAKS" the weapon.

There are PLENTY of other builds that have a MUCH higher DPS rate than the gauss, capable of delivering a higher rate of instant or near instant death, like the 5+ pulse laser builds, and the clan ballistic boats that can crank out over 1200 damage in under 2 minutes, and don't suffer NEAR the 'balance' factors that the gauss does.