156 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Desolator, on 04 December 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

Because people are bad players, poor sports, and just want everything to be handed to them.

In addition, people have the misconception that it is the Mech that makes the pilot when it is the inverse that is true.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Because ppl cant handle the idea of having a challenge in a game.

Given that the clans are supposed to be OP (and is why they invade so far into the IS).

Itll be interesting to see if the invasion still goes off when they nerf them though, or will the IS players lose planets to the Clan because of story regardless on how well the clans do in matches

[Peter2000]

The Boz, on 05 December 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

[Redacted]

Yeah, these people who say things like "'Mechs/builds/weapons don't matter, only pilots matter" have obviously never competed at anything seriously in their lives. Sure, a good pilot in a mediocre 'Mech will generally beat a bad pilot in in a good one. But what about when two equally skilled pilots face off (which is what is supposed to be happening most of the time, anyway)? Surely the equipment available to them can make quite the difference! Skilled pilots understand how to use advantages in heat dissipation, range, etc., to gain the upper hand in battle - this is a large part of what differentiates them from the less skilled.

Edited by John Wolf, 10 December 2014 - 07:41 AM.
mooderated quote.

[KuroNyra]

Peter2000, on 05 December 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Yeah, these people who say things like "'Mechs/builds/weapons don't matter, only pilots matter" have obviously never competed at anything seriously in their lives. Sure, a good pilot in a mediocre 'Mech will generally beat a bad pilot in in a good one. But what about when two equally skilled pilots face off (which is what is supposed to be happening most of the time, anyway)? Surely the equipment available to them can make quite the difference! Skilled pilots understand how to use advantages in heat dissipation, range, etc., to gain the upper hand in battle - this is a large part of what differentiates them from the less skilled.

The equipment, the map and covers, the prescision of the shoot, a critical hit. Every thing can make a difference under the right circumstance.

[Peter2000]

KuroNyra, on 05 December 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

The equipment, the map and covers, the prescision of the shoot, a critical hit. Every thing can make a difference under the right circumstance.

This is a cop-out. Sure there are other factors than equipment and skill, but your examples can be condensed to "skill and luck".

Map and cover: Skilled pilots know the maps, and know which builds dominate on which (and bring the right one!), and which cover to use to complement their 'Mech's capabilities.

Precision of the shot: This is a massive component of skill in a game that involves shooting...

Critical Hit: In this game, a pretty minor occurrence, and in any case, just a factor of luck. In the long run, luck evens out.

---------------------------------

Let's do some sports analogies. "Tech-suits don't matter in swimming because good swimming is more important than good suits." While the second part of the sentence is true, it is clear that the first part is not. Example: Michael Phelps wears an ordinary suit against me, who is in a tech-suit whose buoyancy can shave up to a second off my time. He crushes me. However, Michael Phelps (who is ordinarily a fraction of a second faster than a certain competitor) would actually be at a disadvantage against his competitor, whom he is more skilled than, if his opponent had a tech-suit, and Phelps did not.

Or for a more relatable (if less perfect) analogy, let's talk car racing (of non-race cars). Presumably a champion racer in a sedan can do some things that make me look rather silly in a sports car (unless there are long straight-aways). However, facing someone of his own caliber, he would be at an absurd disadvantage, and would lose every race.

[Willard Phule]

TWIAFU, on 05 December 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

In addition, people have the misconception that it is the Mech that makes the pilot when it is the inverse that is true.

To a point. Many 'mechs are more forgiving than others, depending on your personal "style." A good example is maneuverability and jump jets. If you're one of those people, like me, that doesn't have an issue with giving up a little firepower to give you a little more maneuverability, then 'mechs like the Cataphract, Timberwolf, Summoner, Nova and other quick, jump capable 'mechs are going to be a lot easier for you than something that's ground bound. I dig the Stormcrow, it's got great hardpoints, speed, armor and slot availabilty....it's just hard to get the hell out of the herd without being able to jump over them.

Same thing with weapons. If you've got a combination that really works well for you, some mechs are going to be a bit more forgiving based on where those hardpoints are. I know pinpoint damage is unescapable, but location has a lot to do with convergence. Having your primary weapon systems scattered all over your 'mech makes things a lot harder.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 05 December 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

Because ppl cant handle the idea of having a challenge in a game.

Given that the clans are supposed to be OP (and is why they invade so far into the IS).

Itll be interesting to see if the invasion still goes off when they nerf them though, or will the IS players lose planets to the Clan because of story regardless on how well the clans do in matches

Depending on how CW actually operates in practice, as opposed untried ideas, I truly doubt you're going to see the wave 1-3 like you're supposed to, according to lore.

The first 3 waves were supposed to hit the Inner Sphere like a Tsunami. Planets falling, entire regiments being devoured...hell, Rasselhague just about falls in the first 3.

They've nerfed so much of the Omnis in the interest of "balance" that I doubt if the Clans will ever get the upper hand and force a confrontation at Tukayyid. Granted, I'm sure noone at PGI knows anything about that....so, we'll probably go through 4 or 5 seasons before they realize that nothing is progressing the way it should.

[Andi Nagasia]

how season1 CW very well may end up,...

Clans invade Rasselhague,
the Rasselhague lines hold long enough for reinforcements to show up,
Rasselhague pushes the Clans back,
the other houses wanting to have their Seccession wars glory back attach the clans,
IS then pushes the Clans all the way back to Arcadia,

[KuroNyra]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 December 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

how season1 CW very well may end up,...

Clans invade Rasselhague,
the Rasselhague lines hold long enough for reinforcements to show up,
Rasselhague pushes the Clans back,
the other houses wanting to have their Seccession wars glory back attach the clans,
IS then pushes the Clans all the way back to Arcadia,

That could give the opportunity to create some nice "Parrallelle Universe" Book.

[LordKnightFandragon]

KuroNyra, on 06 December 2014 - 02:52 AM, said:

That could give the opportunity to create some nice "Parrallelle Universe" Book.

Its already a parallel universe.....the one where Clans are mostly the same and in some cases worse then IS....

[Mystere]

MerryIguana, on 04 December 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

You post this in every one of these threads. Its almost like you are on a....

Jihad?

Edited by Mystere, 06 December 2014 - 06:04 AM.

[InRev]

KuroNyra, on 05 December 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

Well, contrary to WoT. There isn't really the system of tiers. Here, a "Tier V" 'mech can destroy a Tier "I" 'Mech, sur it require skill and a good situation. But in WoT. You would never see a Leichtracktor

I'm assuming he meant where min-maxing made only a handful of tanks viable. When I was playing, many moons ago, all anyone ran was Batchats, T110E5s and certain TDs, depending on the map (plus arty, obv).

Everything elsewas utterly irrelevant, including entire nations.

[LordKnightFandragon]

InRev, on 06 December 2014 - 06:25 AM, said:

I'm assuming he meant where min-maxing made only a handful of tanks viable. When I was playing, many moons ago, all anyone ran was Batchats, T110E5s and certain TDs, depending on the map (plus arty, obv).

Everything elsewas utterly irrelevant, including entire nations.

Yeah, its basically the same still. One thing I find annoying about all Online competitive gaming, they use just a fraction of the game and if your not using it setup in a fashion they deem, your a scrub and your tank.mech..w/e is no good

[R Razor]

All of the arguments made about how the Clans only have two or three decent mechs and several less than stellar mechs when compared to the IS would only be valid if there were a system in which the 'less than stellar" mechs were still included on the battlefield. As it stands today, since there is no Battlevalue in place, and players can drop in any mech they choose, the VAST majority of players drop in the best mechs they have.........so you will mostly see the Whales, Timby's and Crows on the battlefield.

Look at the percentages, I'm sure PGI has (or can).

All of the nerf or buff crap in the world won't fix the game as long as it's played as if the factories of the BT Universe built unlimited numbers of each mech in existence.

The game needs a value system in the WORST way.

[Molossian Dog]

R Razor, on 06 December 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

...As it stands today, since there is no Battlevalue in place, and players can drop in any mech they choose, the VAST majority of players drop in the best mechs they have.........so you will mostly see the Whales, Timby's and Crows on the battlefield.
...

Edited by Molossian Dog, 06 December 2014 - 07:29 AM.

[TWIAFU]

Peter2000, on 05 December 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Yeah, these people who say things like "'Mechs/builds/weapons don't matter, only pilots matter" have obviously never competed at anything seriously in their lives. Sure, a good pilot in a mediocre 'Mech will generally beat a bad pilot in in a good one. But what about when two equally skilled pilots face off (which is what is supposed to be happening most of the time, anyway)? Surely the equipment available to them can make quite the difference! Skilled pilots understand how to use advantages in heat dissipation, range, etc., to gain the upper hand in battle - this is a large part of what differentiates them from the less skilled.

How nice of you to say that skilled pilots don't matter then say, twice, skilled pilots matter.

And where did I say that the mech does not matter?

I will wait...

and wait....

still waiting...

....

That's right, I never did.

ALL I said what that there is a misconception that players think it is the mech that makes all the difference. It does not. Just like you said, twice.

[The Boz]

Denser than a neutron star...

[Peter2000]

TWIAFU, on 06 December 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

How nice of you to say that skilled pilots don't matter then say, twice, skilled pilots matter.

And where did I say that the mech does not matter?

I will wait...

and wait....

still waiting...

....

That's right, I never did.

ALL I said what that there is a misconception that players think it is the mech that makes all the difference. It does not. Just like you said, twice.

*Can't tell if troll or just incredibly stupid*.jpg

I'm saying that when you have two similarly skilled players (which happens more than you might think, and is ultimately the most important scenario to consider, since these are the players who SHOULD be matched up), the equipment makes nearly all the difference. And most of the time, especially when this equal matchup is at higher skill levels, where you can rely on both sides to know and be able to exploit any advantages at their disposal (PUG queue has proven this is not always the case at with less skilled players, closing to 150m to fire IS LRMs, etc.), even a small difference in equipment quality can translate to a dramatic difference in win/loss ratio.

TLDR Similarly skilled pilot + better equipment = win.
Unless both sides are really stupid, in which case literally anything could happen.

Edited by Peter2000, 06 December 2014 - 08:05 AM.