61 replies to this topic

[Screaming Cruiser]

"The only legitimate reason to build a cruiser is because you can't afford to put to sea a fleet of battleships." I'm sure someone once said that.

Medium Mechs should be the bread and butter of any battalion, with heavies and assaults forming the expensive nucleus of the group.

I would like to see a breakdown of 2-4 lights, 4-8 mediums, and only a 1-3 heavies and assaults in both CW and PUG matches. I think that that would make for a more realistic battle formation. After all, why would you bring a medium to a fight against a heavy or assault? I’m generalizing here, and not considering specific niche builds for tactical reasons, but for the same reasons navies have historically put to sea larger numbers of smaller vessels, than say battleships and carriers. Smaller vessels are cheaper to build and maintain. The US has 12 or 13 carriers, but how many cruisers? Probably near a hundred.

Another example: How many King Tigers did the Germans field relative to Panzers during the Second World War? Not as many as they would have liked.

Tweaking match making to favor a more historically balanced approach to unit composition would I think, create matches which are more tactical, and they would have a deeper level of immersion because they would make sense based on what we know of the economic and logistical limitations of war.

Edited by Screaming Cruiser, 04 December 2014 - 10:16 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

?

[Karl Marlow]

In CW with a 240 Tonnage limit it is going to pretty much mean we will see alot of Mediums garanteed.

[Elizander]

I have 4 mastered Hunchbacks I'll be your grunt! D:

Edited by Elizander, 04 December 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Except nobody will play those and mm will take never.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Nah, I like playing assaults and heavies and I don't care to wait longer in queue just because lore says mediums were more common. Take lore when you can but don't let player experience suffer for it.

[Screaming Cruiser]

The lore is just telling the story of realistic gameplay, constrained by economics and logistics. How could you create a realistic storyline based on 100 matches in MWO? You couldn't, because the unit organization doesn't make sense.

[Chrithu]

Screaming Cruiser, on 04 December 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

The lore is just telling the story of realistic gameplay, constrained by economics and logistics.

Problem identified. MWO doesn't involve any economics or logistics (unlike the previous MechWarrior and MechCommander Games), because it wants to be an online arena shooter with mechs rather than a mech roleplaying game which simulates a complete universe (including economy and stuff). I guess we've learned that much by now. It's better to just accept that and work from there.

On top of that the lesson of too much and too strict constraining breaking the matchmaker was learned with 3/3/3/3 already when it was strictly enforced. So trying to enforce 3/6/2/1 will just fail even harder, because you cannot force players to play mechs they don't like simply by a matchmaking rule.

I do agree with the lore premise, but it simply does not fit the framework offered by MWO.

Edited by Jason Parker, 04 December 2014 - 10:48 PM.

[Elizander]

Just imagine that everyone else is fighting with mediums.

Unless PGI decides to create a Chameleon starter mech for new players to use that is.

[That Guy]

while i agree with the premise (not enough medium mechs on the field), a hard limit is not the way to go. People payed money for their mechs, and they want to play their mechs. Or you ground until you could get the one you wanted, and thus want to play it.

A much better solution would be for PGI to actually balance mediums so that they are not outdone in every category by heavies, and in some cases assaults. (armor, firepower, mobility, heat efficiency)

the quirks helped, but the heavies are still a "better" choice

[Screaming Cruiser]

But... don't you think you would enjoy a match more if it were more realistic? One where lights, mediums, and heavies were playing like you would expect them to play?

Right now you have a whole lot of heavies and assaults running around fighting like mediums, which doesn't really leave a role for mediums, except as mentioned, in niche builds. The gameplay is out of whack, and so therefor are the tactics, and results.

[Screaming Cruiser]

Well, I don't know that I'm necessarily in favor or hard limits, but rather a dynamic system where a planet or political unit would have a limited number of heavies and assaults to use during a campaign.

Perhaps, a few battles could be fought with mostly heavies and assaults, but the average match would work out to a 2-4/4-8/1-2/1-2 balance or something similar to that.

[Sandpit]

?
Tonnage restrictions ensure you'll see a myriad of weight classes. I'm not sure what the complaint is

[Lexx]

Screaming Cruise I think you should read some of Paul's posts in the Command Chair section of the forums about how community warfare is going to work, because you don't seem to understand it at all.


It's not going to be a straight up12v12 no respawn match, like we are fighting now, with the only difference being it's for control of a planet.

What we get is "dropship mode" in an attack/defend type scenario. We're going to get to choose 4 mechs and those 4 mechs are going to have a tonnage limit. Most players seem to think it's going to be 240 tons, but it could be different. We have to choose 4 mechs also, so there will be no just taking just 2-3 assault mechs. With an average of 60 tons, you're probably going to see a lot of medium mechs in the mix, which is what you seem to be wanting.

Edited by Lexx, 04 December 2014 - 11:23 PM.

[SgtMagor]

all my years of playing MechWarrior I didn't pilot a medium that much, light, heavy, and assault seem to have more bang for the buck...

[Walluh]

Immersion through having a billion mediums running around isn't worth matchmaker grinding down to the speed of a slug.

[van Uber]

Screaming Cruiser, on 04 December 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

"The only legitimate reason to build a cruiser is because you can't afford to put to sea a fleet of battleships." I'm sure someone once said that.

If someone did, it was because someone didn't have a clue. The reason to build a cruiser (or destroyer or corvette or frigate) was with their designated roles in mind. Think Bismarck compared to Admiral Graf Spee. Could Bismarck really perform the Admirals intended role? Doubtful.

So what you really want is a more articulated role warfare, where the players get even more incentives to pilot something other than Heavies.

Screaming Cruiser, on 04 December 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

Another example: How many King Tigers did the Germans field relative to Panzers during the Second World War? Not as many as they would have liked.

Now this is not entirely the same thing. The Germans could not field as many Tiger II tanks as they would have liked, but that does not mean it would have been the only tank they ever produced, even if they had the capacity. The Panther weighted less, drove faster and hade a longer action radius. So while the King Tiger did pack more punch and could take more of a beating, it did not mean it was the best suited tool for every circumstance, or even most of them.

TL;DR Hard caps are bad. Incentives are good. You want to see more pilots in Mediums, give examples of incentives that will benefit them and name tasks best suited for that weight-class that would help the team onto victory.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MoonUnitBeta, on 04 December 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

?

He wants to punish and alienate heavy/assault pilots

[Punk Oblivion]

As someone who loves playing heavies/assaults. I would be ok with the 240 ton limit, but the ability to bring LESS than 4. Like I can bring 1 assault and 2 heavies, but get 1 less "respawn".

As is now, I am planning on bringing one of each weight class since I want to bring a banshee (or maybe a king crab!)

If that doesn't work out well, I will be bringing 2 heavies and 2 mediums

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Punk Oblivion, on 05 December 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

As someone who loves playing heavies/assaults. I would be ok with the 240 ton limit, but the ability to bring LESS than 4. Like I can bring 1 assault and 2 heavies, but get 1 less "respawn".

As is now, I am planning on bringing one of each weight class since I want to bring a banshee (or maybe a king crab!)

If that doesn't work out well, I will be bringing 2 heavies and 2 mediums

Im planning on bringing 2 atlai and 2 lolcusts

Cause Im not gonna be forced into not playing my favorite mechs

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 05 December 2014 - 05:54 AM.