346 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

kosmos1214, on 07 December 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

what do i have to do to get the one with the angel on it any one know?????/

purchase the highest tier package of any of the ones they released. Gold founder, Overlord phoenix, Missarki collection, Man-o-war collection or the highest resistance package.

[Punk Oblivion]

I know it's not lore, But I was hoping one of the variants would have a ballistic slot in both arms and both torsos. Guess I will have to cross my fingers for the hero version to have this so I can finally run a 4-AC10/ 4-LBX10 dream machine.

Still excited though. Just wish the AC2's were not still bugged all to hell with heat issues

Edited by Punk Oblivion, 07 December 2014 - 09:05 PM.

[Alek Ituin]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 07 December 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

no... again you're jumping to conclusions with no facts.

perhaps its not a good command mech BECAUSE its too powerful therefore leading you male heros to charge into fights and not hang back to command and direct. Perhaps in their fictional world they decided its comms gear wasn't as good as the atlas or there is someother issue with it. A GOOD command shouldnt need to fight if their commands are sound so being able to knock down another Atlas is irrelevant to the argument of what makes a good command mech.

The authors and designers of the background lore for this world decided, regardless of what you dream of otherwise, that, as the wrote and stated, the King Crab was NOT a versatile command platform, a role filled by the Atlas instead. Unless you know more about the world THEY created than THEY do?

Yes, because IRL tactics don't call for targeting command structure above most everything. Which, as it happens, carries over to BT. In fact there was even a Mech designed specifically to kill commanders and their Mechs, either SLDF or Jihad era. Inferior combat chassis make inferior command vehicles, because the chassis itself is inferior. Despite you trying desperately to come up with a reason the KGC should be inferior, all evidence points to the contrary.

KGC:
Easily down an Atlas in its weaker C&C variant
Take multiple Lances and cause guaranteed casualties
Annihilate opponents in close-combat
Can compete well with the Clans in its "Clan Buster" variant

Atlas:
3 extra tons of armor
"superior" C&C abilities
Intimidation factor?
Can pick up mediums and throw them around like rag dolls

Honestly, the lore speaks for itself. The only reason the Atlas is "superior" as a C&C Mech is because lore says so, despite the KGC being superior in almost all aspects. Command Mechs should and must be capable of defending themselves (or scurrying away), which is why a large number are based on Assault Chassis, and not weak ones at that. Lore even supports this fact, just as much as it supports the Atlas somehow being better for C&C duties.

Nothing about the Atlas lends itself to being more versatile for C&C duties, at all. I implore you to come up with some plausible reason as to why the KGC is less versatile, keeping in mind that they're both 100 tons (and can easily make room for equipment).

OH, and you seem to forget that there are such a thing as "battlefield commanders", which both command forces, and fight with them. There's entire history books full of people like that, and most of the notable ones were notable because they were good at it. Not every commander hangs back and does the desk jockey routine, staring at maps and waiting for reports.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 07 December 2014 - 09:25 PM.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

you DO realise we are fighting over a fictional world right?

[Alek Ituin]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 07 December 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

you DO realise we are fighting over a fictional world right?

Yes. Yes I do.

It dawned on me after I wrote my last reply. Still doesn't render my points any less valid.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 07 December 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[Scratx]

kosmos1214, on 07 December 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

what do i have to do to get the one with the angel on it any one know?????/

Brody319, on 07 December 2014 - 08:52 PM, said:

purchase the highest tier package of any of the ones they released. Gold founder, Overlord phoenix, Missarki collection, Man-o-war collection or the highest resistance package.

This, except Founder and Overlord aren't available anymore, so the options are Masakari (Clan Wave 1, $240), Man-o-War (Clan Wave 2, $120) or Wrath (Resistance, $80).

It's a bonus mech and will only be handed out to people who qualify by Dec. 16th. If you really really REALLY want it, pick one of these packs. Any will do. If you have Overlord or Legendary Founder already, then you qualify already.


https://mwomercs.com/resistance <- From here you can look at what the packs contain. Top of the page has links to the different packs.

Edited by Scratx, 07 December 2014 - 10:02 PM.

[Xetelian]

Hawk819, on 06 December 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Are we getting all three? Or as it was with the Atlas, just the one with 30% bonus?

3 if they want 30 more dollars but it sounds like one and we get the liberty of buying the others in time.

[Scratx]

Xetelian, on 07 December 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

3 if they want 30 more dollars but it sounds like one and we get the liberty of buying the others in time.

Yeah, the gift mech is just the Loyalty King Crab 000(L).

But the standard variants will be available on Dec 16th for MC I believe.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Alek Ituin, on 07 December 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

Yes. Yes I do.

It dawned on me after I wrote my last reply. Still doesn't render my points any less valid.

haha no... I was just getting at how ludicrous this debate really is

Edited by Keira RAVEN McKenna, 07 December 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[Alek Ituin]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 07 December 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

haha no... I was just getting at the ludicrous this debate really is

You've got a point... Doesn't mean it isn't fun though.

[R Razor]

The M577 might not agree that a command vehicle has to be capable of standing up to a front line combat vehicle.........just sayin'.

[Alek Ituin]

R Razor, on 07 December 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

The M577 might not agree that a command vehicle has to be capable of standing up to a front line combat vehicle.........just sayin'.

That's a fair point you've got there.

But a Command Mech just took up drop space from a main-line combat Mech. It just took the spot of a combat Mech in its Lance, and C&C Mechs are generally Heavy or Assault. So you're gimping your Lance with anything less than a powerhouse. It's on the front, in the line of fire, and if it can't perform similarly to the Mech it replaced you might as well command the battle from orbit. If your command Mech is going to be sitting behind several miles of friendly lines then by all means, take a flimsy C&C Mech, it doesn't matter as long as it has good equipment.

That said, no C&C Assault should be sitting that far back, they should be at the front fighting with the rest of the Lance/Company.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Pretty sure the Awacs planes are in the same boat...

[GumbyC2C]

In TT, this is a much more fair fight. No convergence makes the extra armor of the Atlas more effective and close up it can shoot the AC 20 and punch twice or club once (grab a tree) at the same time for equal firepower. But this ain't TT so the lack of physical attacks and weapon convergence will make the King Crab the winner almost every time.

In TT both get completely beatdown by a Dire Wolf. The KC fares a bit better but only because one out of every thirty-six AC-20 hits will be a headshot kill.

[Alek Ituin]

Keira RAVEN McKenna, on 07 December 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

Pretty sure the Awacs planes are in the same boat...

AWACS are also aircraft, and the E-3 can scoot itself right out of a combat zone at 530mph if it needs too. They're also lynchpin units in radar pickets, coordinating smaller EWAR aircraft to form a screen.

But, they can do their job from such extreme range as to be impossible to engage with SAM's or AAM's. You've got to penetrate the 400km radar detection screen, avoid the air superiority fighter patrols (who know exactly where you are), close to locking distance, and hope the AWACS doesn't have counter measures. That's assuming you can even lock the damn thing, or you have ECM emission tracking ordnance.

Non-combat capable command units are generally: A- too far behind your lines to see heavy combat, B- capable of avoiding combat altogether through various mechanisms, or C- defended with combat capable units in a screen. The AWACS for instance is a combination of B and C, wherein it can easily detect incoming threats so as to escape, as well as direct defensive units at the same time.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 07 December 2014 - 11:12 PM.

[verybad]

Alek Ituin, on 07 December 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

Oh nifty. But wait!

"Designed by Cosara Weaponries in 2741 at the request of General Aleksandr Kerensky for an assault 'Mech that could 'cripple or destroy another 'Mech in one salvo,' the King Crab is one of the most fearsome BattleMechs to have ever existed. Its primary weapons, super-heavy autocannons mounted in its arms, can strip the armor off of any 'Mech in a few bursts."

"All told the 010 model was more than capable of taking down an Atlas, but the entire line left with Kerensky during the Exodus and even knowledge of the design's existence became lost during the Succession Wars."

From: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/King_Crab

The KGC-010 was superior to the Atlas as both an Assault and a Command Mech. Did I get my dates wrong? Yes. But it doesn't mean my point is wrong.

Considering the Atlas was much better armored, and the Atlas was reknowned for it's command capabilities (and the King Crab just for it's firepower. I'm not sure I would agree with that.

The base King Crab only had one ton of ammo for each canon so it was pretty easy to run out of ammo...Quite frankly it wasn't a tremendously good mech. What can be made out of the chassis is a diferently thing, but no, it wasn't considered a better command unit.

[Alek Ituin]

verybad, on 07 December 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

Considering the Atlas was much better armored, and the Atlas was reknowned for it's command capabilities (and the King Crab just for it's firepower. I'm not sure I would agree with that.

The base King Crab only had one ton of ammo for each canon so it was pretty easy to run out of ammo...Quite frankly it wasn't a tremendously good mech. What can be made out of the chassis is a diferently thing, but no, it wasn't considered a better command unit.

Well, you're late to the party. The issue was already wrapped up if you'd bothered to read any further.

As it happens, the C&C KGC-010 variant uses LB-X/10's and twin PPC's, not the iconic twin AC/20's of the combat variants. Sooooo, yeah... Still has a good battery of energy weapons, and the command variant is more than capable of downing an Atlas.

IMO, as far as front-line command units go, if your command Atlas can get its face wrecked by a command KGC you have the wrong front-line command unit. Which one can easily assume an Assault command unit will be, since why the hell else would you use an Assault C&C Mech over a Heavy or Medium?

[Viges]

4xAC5+2xPPC possible? lol@everything

[Greenjulius]

Viges, on 07 December 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

4xAC5+2xPPC possible? lol@everything

Yeah, it can be done.

Treat the LRM15+A as an AC5, because they take up the same tonnage and crit slots. You could run it with a STD300 if you're okay with only 195 shots for the AC5s. Otherwise, run it with an XL300-310, drop Endo, and you can run it with around 9-11 tons of ammo for around 270-330 rounds depending on if you want to throw DHS into the engine or not.

Link

I'd personally run it with LPLs instead, but that's just me.

Edited by Greenjulius, 07 December 2014 - 11:46 PM.

[Escef]

Livewyr, on 07 December 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

Fine with me, but real opponents please! (Cattra in a 6xLBX2 DWF... kinda took my attention away from the KC...)

Apparently theB33f used a 6xLB2X build on one of his Dires with the cannons macro'd for high rate of fire. Not super efficient, but it drilled holes in people.