56 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

Mickey Knoxx, on 08 December 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

I am still trying to understand the mindset of the solo players and why are so adamant to be that way.

Its a team based game. You are always going to be in a match with 11 other people. You know that a coordinated group is going to have the advantage (mechs, builds, comms, ect.). Know that CW has been coming for a few years now (we were hoping).

In all this time, why not find 11 other like minded people to enjoy all this with? I mean with so many who seem to feel like they are in the same boat, why not just all form up and put some of the anger into punishing these "groups"?

A couple of reasons for lone wolves to exist ....

1) They have limited play time which happens on short notice. They have no ability to commit to a group of any size to play at any specific time. Their only option is solo but they still want to participate in CW since it is the only way to access the CW content/game modes/game mech constraints/more interesting game play. Of course in game VOIP might help with this somewhat.

2) They may be anti-social. They like the game but don't play well with others (i.e. perhaps despise authority in any form whatsoever). They may perform reasonably well, sometimes coordinate their actions, but for whatever reason don't want to listen to orders or suggestions made by anyone. (If you don't believe that folks like this exist ... in one match a long time ago I made a couple of suggestions on grouping up, focus fire, etc .... one of the folks on my team TK'ed me because he hated authority in any form ... even just suggestions ... not a good team player but they certainly tried to play MWO).


However, both groups might still want to participate in CW since it offers some "meaning" to the matches that are being played instead of the same grind for no other reason than cbills with xp a distant second (if they improved the xp system then that would go some distance to making the grind more interesting ... but they haven't).

Edited by Mawai, 08 December 2014 - 06:29 AM.

[Blakkstar]

Of course it will change the meta. I would expect to see a lot of energy weapons, since if you're a good player and survive, you'll potentially have 48 enemy mechs to shoot at instead of 12. An AC-20 or Gauss with ~30 rounds just isn't going to have the staying power, and there's no repair/refit on the horizon to change it.

As far as Lone Wolves playing, there are many reasons. The average age of MWO gamers skews high, so people have kids, jobs, family stuff, etc. I log on and grab games when I can, and can't commit to any kind of schedule. I'd rather just play instead of chatting people up, forming groups, and waiting for everybody in the group to die before the next drop. I also don't consider online gaming with strangers as a source of social interaction (some people do, which is fine, but it's not what I'm looking for in a game).

I did Clan Wars in WoT for a couple months and it's fun, but is also a time-sucking chore. You have to set aside hours and hours of time to play through a full match bracket for just one territory on one night. Playing at a higher level was interesting, but not really sustainable for my time and effort. This game just doesn't have the player base right now to be able to support a large number of hardcore teams, so it's a good idea for PGI to do something to make it friendly to solo players. Especially as the "current" model appears to be filling in undermanned teams with Lone Wolves without punishing full ones in any way.

[Kirkland Langue]

the wr3ck, on 07 December 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

With the 240 ton limit do you think we will see a new meta emerge? We will probably have lighter faster mechs which could lead to a different meta. I wonder how well 12 players all bringing firestarter 's A would do. Imagine the chaos.

What do you consider the "current Meta" to be?

[Sprouticus]

to address a few comments:

1) Yes, Elo will not be part of the MM, but I believe PGI will need to make group size part of it. I am not sure if it is currently. Good twitter question. Ill ask.

2) Yes, a meta will appear. Yes, it will be different. Actually I think 2 meta will appear. One for offense, one for defense. This depends upon how good the defenses are of course. But I really do think the gameplay will be different for the offense. JJ's might be more useful, short range less useful, etc.

3) a Meta for drop order and style will also come into play. do you drop with fast mechs and rush? do you save assaults for last or use them first? What about defense? Do you huncker down and snip or do you couter rush using the turreta for support? Do you use lights to try to ambush enemy LR mechs at the start or do you use assaults and tank to try to win by attrition? What about clan vs IS. The clans have better loadouts for mediums/heavies, but an assault/light IS load out might be really useful, especially if the KC can tank hard.

My prediction:

Clan offense: LR SCrows to start, following by laser vomit TW's and then once breach occurs SRM SCrows with maybe a couple ECM KF's

clan Defense: Pretty much the same, except mediums first, saving TW's for last. I can totally see value for FLD or dakka DW's to burn down the enemy pushes early or mid game. Short ramge, laser/SRM TW's would be great for base defense.

IS Offense/Defense: I honeslty have no idea. I could see ERPPC/ERLL awesome and stalkers being useful early with short range fast mediums later. Or fast JJ firestarters doing an end around to open the base early.


I DO think there will be more tactical flexibility, even if the mech selection is not as good. Both offense and defense can try to play things out, being cautious...or they can blitz/couter attack if they see the enemy dropdeck is light to start. Depending upon the maps of course. If the maps are bad or have major flaws, it may limit tactical options.

[Kanatta Jing]

Blakkstar, on 08 December 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

Of course it will change the meta. I would expect to see a lot of energy weapons, since if you're a good player and survive, you'll potentially have 48 enemy mechs to shoot at instead of 12. An AC-20 or Gauss with ~30 rounds just isn't going to have the staying power, and there's no repair/refit on the horizon to change it.

As far as Lone Wolves playing, there are many reasons. The average age of MWO gamers skews high, so people have kids, jobs, family stuff, etc. I log on and grab games when I can, and can't commit to any kind of schedule. I'd rather just play instead of chatting people up, forming groups, and waiting for everybody in the group to die before the next drop. I also don't consider online gaming with strangers as a source of social interaction (some people do, which is fine, but it's not what I'm looking for in a game).

I did Clan Wars in WoT for a couple months and it's fun, but is also a time-sucking chore. You have to set aside hours and hours of time to play through a full match bracket for just one territory on one night. Playing at a higher level was interesting, but not really sustainable for my time and effort. This game just doesn't have the player base right now to be able to support a large number of hardcore teams, so it's a good idea for PGI to do something to make it friendly to solo players. Especially as the "current" model appears to be filling in undermanned teams with Lone Wolves without punishing full ones in any way.

Someone might be good enough to rack up 30+ kills in CW without dying.

That person is not me.

That person will not be present in 90% of CW matches.

I'm pretty sure that person isn't you.

You can't shape a meta around that guy. Meta's get shaped around mediocre players and their abilities.

[Senor Cataclysmo]

Mickey Knoxx, on 08 December 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

I am still trying to understand the mindset of the solo players and why are so adamant to be that way.

Its a team based game. You are always going to be in a match with 11 other people. You know that a coordinated group is going to have the advantage (mechs, builds, comms, ect.). Know that CW has been coming for a few years now (we were hoping).

In all this time, why not find 11 other like minded people to enjoy all this with? I mean with so many who seem to feel like they are in the same boat, why not just all form up and put some of the anger into punishing these "groups"?

It's not necessarily about being adamantly against team play. For many of us it's a question of life getting in the way. I really like MWO, but I get to have games when life permits and that's it. There's no way I can commit to any kind of schedule for drops or practice. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.

[AlmightyAeng]

It won't effect loadouts (possibly how much ammo people take...but unlikely) but it WILL effect strategy, since you are no longer limited by the MM as far as what chassis' drop together.

[Hillslam]

For those of you worrying about 12 man rofl stomps in CW:

Here's the thing ladies, you can make note of what faction the most egregious offenders are on. And then, you know what? You can CHOOSE not to fight on THAT border.

"Oh wow, no way man! You mean, I can play MWO CW and avoid the big bad boogey men? No way!"

Way.

This is an especially tastey option, because it not only lets you avoid nerd raging neckbeard try hards, thus improving your fun, but it also drains their pool of opponents. Cackle as you sit back imagining their ever increasing wait times.

Or, you know, just chillax.

For example: if I don't want to stink up my air with clammer opponents, I can just go fight on the Marik, Davion, Raselhague or Kurita borders. Or, if I tire of beating on the inner sphere ghetto trashcans, I can queu up for the invasion front and smash some yogurt-vat-grown genitalia-challenged clan-larpers.

Win win.

Edited by Hillslam, 08 December 2014 - 08:10 AM.

[Mawai]

Hillslam, on 08 December 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

For those of you worrying about 12 man rofl stomps in CW:

Here's the thing ladies, you can make note of what faction the most egregious offenders are on. And then, you know what? You can CHOOSE not to fight on THAT border.

"Oh wow, no way man! You mean, I can play MWO CW and avoid the big bad boogey men? No way!"

Way.

This is an especially tastey option, because it not only lets you avoid nerd raging neckbeard try hards, thus improving your fun, but it also drains their pool of opponents. Cackle as you sit back imagining their ever increasing wait times.

Or, you know, just chillax.

For example: if I don't want to stink up my air with clammer opponents, I can just go fight on the Marik, Davion, Raselhague or Kurita borders. Or, if I tire of beating on the inner sphere ghetto trashcans, I can queu up for the invasion front and smash some yogurt-vat-grown genitalia-challenged clan-larpers.

Win win.

Of course you could always send your stealth detachment of soloists to your opposing faction to intentionally tank matches ... sounds like a sort of goon thing to do actually ... they could wander around in random directions going "derp derp derp" when the match starts ... though if someone planned something like this then it is more likely that they would just play badly using beginner accounts and trial mechs ... pretending to be real newbs just starting CW.

Here's hoping that PGI has worked on measures to help prevent folks from gaming the system or CW will be DOA from griefers.

Edited by Mawai, 08 December 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Jetfire]

What is likely to change is that you will be looking at more META deck builds rather than single mechs.

Say the TBR is the best mech in a META build A in the normal Queue, well you could field 2 of them with the balance in 2 other mechs OR you could maybe one TBR, a Mad Dog and have 15 tons more for a Stormcrow and a Nova. If that is better than another drop deck you will see the "META" shift a bit. Base assault may also make the needs change a bit. It may be worth bringing a dedicated long range assault build on a mech to breach the gate, then drop some brawlers in.

[BatWing]

in regard of a possible "Meta" for CW, i am pretty sure something will come out.

especially Competitive teams, always search for new and most performing configurations.

however what is possibly a scenario we will see is the coming back of the Min/Max dropping, which was the reason in first place why they had to introduce the 3, 3, 3, 3 rule, to make drops more interesting and a bit more challenging.

wit the "open" drop, there will be most probably the config how it was in the past with the Max performers per high tonnage and the Max performers per low tonnage. once those performers are recognized, there will be no reason to use more than 2 or 3 mechs at all.

Then, i hope they will figure out some solution for that kind of boring gaming as they did when they came out with the 3,3,3,3 in the PUGs queue.

This is gonna be a great Alpha release and we will see how the Community will spoil the rules. then we will see adjustments, so just sit tight and enjoy the show

[AztecD]

1st wave - All scouts and a medium here and there
2nd wave - scattered scouts, mediums and some heavies
3rd wave - some meds, mostly heavy and some assults
4th wave - some heavies and mostly assaults

It will be glorious

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Brody319, on 07 December 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

No, just a CW meta that is separate from the pug metas.

Assuming that more thought went into the CW maps and will not be like TDM maps (which I'm hoping so). Till its all released it's conjecture either way and a moot point.

[LORD TSARKON]

Mickey Knoxx, on 08 December 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

I am still trying to understand the mindset of the solo players and why are so adamant to be that way.

Its a team based game. You are always going to be in a match with 11 other people. You know that a coordinated group is going to have the advantage (mechs, builds, comms, ect.). Know that CW has been coming for a few years now (we were hoping).

In all this time, why not find 11 other like minded people to enjoy all this with? I mean with so many who seem to feel like they are in the same boat, why not just all form up and put some of the anger into punishing these "groups"?

Community Warfare should cater to solo players as much as grouped players....

I prefer to play with friends... but unfortunately most of my friends have left the game... I work in chaotic hours for work so no time to coordinate with a real group (or the time).

Just Because its a team based game does not mean people should not enjoy it SOLO. When you play Call of Duty should it be a group only game? What about World of Warcraft? That game is a team based game essentially. Both companies have figured out how to appease to both group and solo... and so should PGI.

Also lately in group Que I usually get matched into a 9+ group (vs our 3 man).... so we get stomped like 90 percent of the time...

Yet if I SOLO the win percentage seems reversed (75 percent almost)...

While I will try CW if I get creamed all the time then I will not play it.... I think most of the 9-12 man groups will go to CW so I"m hoping that the Group Que for small groups doesn't get 9-12 man stomps anymore...

PGI's biggest problem right now is low player base (when compared to a year or two ago) and another game type that adds more options and separates more players from each other can be a horrible thing..

Image if CW is a success.... but the Group Que for Skirmish, Assault, and Conquest are so broken that Solo people have to be put into it again...

Game needs new players

[Kirkland Langue]

During Closed Beta, I argued that every single battle in MWO should take place within the CW framework. PGI decided to go a different direction, so now we'll see how many players opt for CW participation.

[DaZur]

Senor Cataclysmo, on 08 December 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

It's not necessarily about being adamantly against team play. For many of us it's a question of life getting in the way. I really like MWO, but I get to have games when life permits and that's it. There's no way I can commit to any kind of schedule for drops or practice. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is.

Dont forget the segment of the community like myself who just choose not to.

I'm in a unit... am reasonably social... But in general I enjoy my solo existence. I find peace in zoning out in my own little MW:O world with no preconceived demands of my performance and not expectations.

When my Unit calls on me, I'll be there... Otherwise I'm a soloist with no strings on me....

[B0oN]

Let´s effing hope so, but the hopes ain´t high .