32 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

Lets assume the slowest anyone would set this mech to would be a DWF speed, so that would be a 300 engine rating. Assuming you don't want to have a joke assault, you would use a STD engine + endo and maxed armor leaving you with 50.81 tons free or with some armor shaving 51 tons free space.

A quad ac/5 + 2 ppc let alone a quad uac/5 + 2 ppc is ridiculously unrealistic for the tonnage the mech will have available and the heat sinks to run it.

4 AC/5 = 32 tons
2 PPC = 14 tons
=46 tons used and 5 tons for ammo or heat sinks

4 UAC/5 = 36 tons
2 PPC = 14 tons
= 50 tons used and 1 ton for ammo or heat sink

If you try put an XL in the mech it will explode almost always and be useless.

The only route to go for a 40 pin point build with reasonable speed, armor and firing capacity will be the dual ac/10 + ppc route.
2 AC/10 = 24 tons
2 PPC = 14 tons
= 36 tons used and 15 tons for ammo and heat sinks

The other route would be the AC/20 route and PPC's which sounds nice on paper until you realize how slow you move and only an idiot would fight you at 500M or less range and everyone can outdistance you.

Edited by Rhent, 07 December 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[QuantumButler]

IS PPCs are pretty bad these days unless you have mega quirks so you'd probably use LPLs or regular LLs.

Edited by QuantumButler, 07 December 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[Madw0lf]

AC2s and ML will be the top dog.

[QuantumButler]

Madw0lf, on 07 December 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

AC2s and ML will be the top dog.

2hue

[Xythius]

There are a lot of speculations about the KCG going around now since the video's showed up. It has been said in other threads that the only things we really know about this 'mech are the hardpoints, quirks & a bit about its agility. It really is too soon to start speculating the 'meta builds' this will be capable of.

Though the tonnage requirements you cited are probably correct (I play mostly clan, so my knowledge of the IS is scant @ best; I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here), nothing is certain until it's in our 'mech bays & we have time to actually play with it.

Hell, I'm most likely gonna run it stock for a while, just for fun.

[Rhent]

QuantumButler, on 07 December 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

IS PPCs are pretty bad these days unless you have mega quirks so you'd probably use LPLs or regular LLs.

You pair PPCs and AC/10's together now, they have the EXACT same velocity now. You have a very good mid range to close range machine with those put together. So as long as you can aim, you have the 40 pin point back again with reasonable heat sinks and ammo.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Rhent, on 07 December 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

The other route would be the AC/20 route and PPC's which sounds nice on paper until you realize how slow you move and only an idiot would fight you at 500M or less range and everyone can outdistance you.

I think you kind of living in a fantasy world here. Most of the engagements in MWO take place at under 500m with Alpine being the exception and even then, that fight always, eventually gets into that 500m engagement range.

Also you just have to spectate on any match to see just how often people end up in very close proximity engagements with a Dire Wolf. I mean there are just times you cannot help it such as turning a corner on Mining Collective and running smack dab into a Dire Standing there. Also lets face it, an Atlas which is the same speed as the KC seems to not have a whole hell of alot of issue getting in to brawling range either.

Lastly, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if several of the "meta" build don't neglect Ballistics almost entirely. I mean one variant will have 4 energy and 4 missile hard points located at the very tip top of its shell. With 50+ tons to play with, you could easly drop 2 ER PPCs and 2 ER LLs plus tons of LRMs/SRMs up there where you can hill hump with almost zero exposure. This frees up those massive arms and claws to be huge, expendable shields for those times when you can't hull down behind a hill. Build is cheesy as hell but despite that, it might be amazingly effective.

[Ulketulke]

I will try:
4X AC5
2x AC2
XL 325 (13DHS)
11t Ammo
Just for fun before ill fit AC20/LPL or AC10/PPC

Edited by Ulketulke, 07 December 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[Macster16]

4 x AC5 + 2 LLs leaves 9 tonnes for ammo + heatsinks with a STD300 engine. That may work, though you'd need to compromise on either heat or ammo.

[Lord Perversor]

Macster16, on 07 December 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

4 x AC5 + 2 LLs leaves 9 tonnes for ammo + heatsinks with a STD300 engine. That may work, though you'd need to compromise on either heat or ammo.

That's pretty much the build i had in mind, just like a CTF -4X with armor and backup weapons..

Also is worth to notice players should be able to play with 52 tons as long they use a 300 + 65 armor points in each leg.

P.S: on an unrelated note it may be theorically possible go for a 2x Ac/10 and 3x PPC with a 350 XL (if King Crab can use same engine sizes as the Atlas) wich may be a quite nasty thing to face heads on with a bit more extra survival due extra speed.

Edited by Lord Perversor, 07 December 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Rhent]

Lord Perversor, on 07 December 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

That's pretty much the build i had in mind, just like a CTF -4X with armor and backup weapons..

Also is worth to notice players should be able to play with 52 tons as long they use a 300 + 65 armor points in each leg.

P.S: on an unrelated note it may be theorically possible go for a 2x Ac/10 and 3x PPC with a 350 XL (if King Crab can use same engine sizes as the Atlas) wich may be a quite nasty thing to face heads on with a bit more extra survival due extra speed.

An IS assault mech with an XL is a sitting duck in almost all configurations. The crab would need to be a walking CT to make an XL viable.

[Metus regem]

I was thinking of trying to cram 6 AC 2's on mine, and going to town...

But when I get serious either dual AC 20's or Gauss.

[D04S02B04]

4x UAC5 is the only way to go. Don't even bother with PPC. IS UAC5 is the best autocannon in the entire game right now. Go take the Jagermech with 3x UAC5 and you'll face **** even direwolves (As long as you hill humping/peeking).

[Rhent]

D04S02B04, on 07 December 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

4x UAC5 is the only way to go. Don't even bother with PPC. IS UAC5 is the best autocannon in the entire game right now. Go take the Jagermech with 3x UAC5 and you'll face **** even direwolves (As long as you hill humping/peeking).

After running a Banshee with 3 AC/5's and 2 PPC's, having a pin point 35 pt alpha was useful. Having a high initial burst that will screw you and jam over time doesn't work for me personally. Personally, I'd go with a 40 pt PPC / AC/10 route myself.

[Karl Marlow]

Lowering the engine to a 250 would free up around 5 tons and it wouldn't be that big of a drop in speed. slow is slow. I think people will be able to do some interesting things if they play with lower engine weights. Especially in team plauy where you can rely on teammates to account for a slower mech.

4 AC/5 = 32 tons
2 PPC = 14 tons
=46 tons used and 10 tons for ammo or heat sinks

14 extra tons if you take LL's instead.

[Milocinia]

How about you try and build something which you think will be fun to drive and something which you could get good results in instead of being a p***k who thinks only about meta and how much PPFLD he can cram into one mech?

Edited by Kyocera, 07 December 2014 - 10:23 PM.

[D04S02B04]

Rhent, on 07 December 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

After running a Banshee with 3 AC/5's and 2 PPC's, having a pin point 35 pt alpha was useful. Having a high initial burst that will screw you and jam over time doesn't work for me personally. Personally, I'd go with a 40 pt PPC / AC/10 route myself.

That's because you're using Banshee specifically that requires that build. I play 40pt Awesome (4x PPCs) and 35pt Gauss Wolf (2x cERPPC 1x Gauss) and they are just as easy to play when you have the advantage of firing from range or jumpsniping etc.

The only reason you went 3 AC5s is because you can't fit 3x UAC5. Why did the 733C meta used 2x UAC5s instead of 2x ACT5? Why was UAC5 the dominant weapon on Cataphracts and Jagermechs?

The truth is there is realistically there is only a small window of time which you can fire your weapons and thereafter, when you should move to cover from incoming LRM fire and return fire from his team mates. This favours a burst fire weapon and if you're moving from cover to cover you can always easily head back immediately if it jams up.

Mathematically speaking, even after accounting for jamming, the UAC5 has 16% higher DPS than the AC5 (3.85 vs 3.33 when CD was 1.5) and if you're lucky enough not to jam which does happens rather frequently because this a computer game will not have a true random number generator, your DPS is massively increased. As a competitive game, it also favours killings your opponent first regardless of consequences. e.g. Doesn't matter if I fire all 4 ppcs at once with my awesome at a light mech. He dies instantly. I just twiddle my thumbs for about 5 seconds.

Kyocera, on 07 December 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

How about you try and build something which you think will be fun to drive and something which you could get good results in instead of being a p***k who thinks only about meta and how much PPFLD he can cram into one mech?

It's not really the current comp meta tbh but having high PPFLD and Dakka is fun. Why do people go dakka whale builds otherwise? It's always fun to watch something melt in front of you.

For some people, winning is fun. Losing isn't.

[Kanatta Jing]

The turning rate on the Crab is fast, faster then the stock Victor, it also has a turning radius of 120 degrees. It looks like a perfect brawler and taking anything other then the dual AC/20 feels like a waste.

Poke with your top racks and patiently wait for the furball.

[zortesh]

I'm gunning for 2ac10 2 ppc myself.. instant 40 ppfld damage with decent range and very good heat management.

[Kiiyor]

Dual gauss + some ERLL will work, and work well. Poke with the lasers, expose more of yourself when you get the opportunity and unload with the gauss. Arms are tiny from the front, and protected by the claws, so the Gauss itself won't be as vulnerable to spontaneous explodifying as the Dire is.

The Dire will always do Gauss meta better, however, but I think the edge for the Crab will be it's high energy and mobility.

AC10's will be interesting, and a nice way to avoid the insane ghost heat for dual 20's.

I believe a quartet of 5's will be the most productive, however. 3AC5's on a Yagermech are already fantastic. 4 + an LPL or a couple of LL will be phenomenal. Mixed 5's will probably also work. 2xAC5, 2xUAC5, and an LL or two. Just click like mad, profit.

I'm interested in seeing how SRM's work too. Heck, you could even do well with LRM's, though not as much at higher ELO.

I'm going to petition Russ to release early. Yep.