81 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Gargoyle is a 13m mech.

[Joe Mallad]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 09 December 2014 - 09:50 PM, said:

The KGC may be Large, but I found it couldn't get out of the river in Canyon Network without walking far enough down to get to one of the really gentle egress slopes.

that's just bad map design lol. Granted, some of these heavies and assaults should take longer to get up most landscapes. But in no way should a small step up or something like stepping out of a river, stop any mech from doing so. The map designs and restrictions on mech movement is just BAD in this game.

[Bront]

Walluh, on 09 December 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

Pretty sure Russ on twitter said this was an accident

Shhh, we'd rather there be a conspiracy.

[Xythius]

Gyrok, on 10 December 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

Not really...considering the TW would have had 2 alphas...3 if he burns a coolshot, and then would be overheated for a significant time.

Meanwhile, if the TW can alpha, the TDR HAS to be inside a range where it can strike back. If it is running a range 5 module, then range on the MPLs is 363 for 726 max range.

This means the TDR can put out 5 alphas on a heat neutral map, so even if trading slightly deficiently, it still puts out roughly 80 more damage, and all of that while the TW is running away or overheated.

It is SIGNIFICANTLY more potent than you give it credit for...

We are clan wolf, and some of our guys run the 5SS over their clan mechs...

That should tell you all you need to know. If a Clansman would run an IS mech over a Clan mech, especially a TW or a Hellbie...then you should pause and take a second look.

Oh noes! An IS 'mech can out perform the flagship Clan heavy in a small niche application! What ever shall we do??!!

Seriously, the Thunderwub IS powerful w/ its wubbiness. With ONLY that build. So the T-wolf goes back to the mechlab, throws on a couple large pulse & some ermeds & takes out the T-wub from range - you know, something a smart player might do. Whats the TDR gonna do then? He has to hide in cover or get smoked before he gets in range.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Clans, but the IS having some powerful 'mechs that can challenge some of the most OP chassis in game is no reason to start calling for nerfs. The TBR will outperform the TDR in almost every way, even against the Wub when approached in a smart manner. If you let the TDR-5SS get in optimal range for those mpls, you deserve to get sliced apart.

*Edit: Have yet to pilot either my KGC or GAR yet, queue was too high & didn't feel like waiting for games in my limited time last night. I did see a lot in games though, but it seemed like the KGC was getting places the GAR wasn't able to - the back way up the I9 hill in Alpine was the biggest example I saw.

Edited by Xythius, 10 December 2014 - 07:31 AM.

[DONTOR]

Walluh, on 09 December 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

Pretty sure Russ on twitter said this was an accident

THANK GOD! Still gonna use Hill climb once its mastered though.

[MerryIguana]

Same reason other IS 10 hardpointers get tiny torso range compared to the crab. 'Cause PGI.

[Gyrok]

Xythius, on 10 December 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Oh noes! An IS 'mech can out perform the flagship Clan heavy in a small niche application! What ever shall we do??!!

Seriously, the Thunderwub IS powerful w/ its wubbiness. With ONLY that build. So the T-wolf goes back to the mechlab, throws on a couple large pulse & some ermeds & takes out the T-wub from range - you know, something a smart player might do. Whats the TDR gonna do then? He has to hide in cover or get smoked before he gets in range.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Clans, but the IS having some powerful 'mechs that can challenge some of the most OP chassis in game is no reason to start calling for nerfs. The TBR will outperform the TDR in almost every way, even against the Wub when approached in a smart manner. If you let the TDR-5SS get in optimal range for those mpls, you deserve to get sliced apart.

*Edit: Have yet to pilot either my KGC or GAR yet, queue was too high & didn't feel like waiting for games in my limited time last night. I did see a lot in games though, but it seemed like the KGC was getting places the GAR wasn't able to - the back way up the I9 hill in Alpine was the biggest example I saw.

Not CHALLENGE, it is outright better...except for JJs, because you cannot put those on a 5SS. Let me repeat...OUTRIGHT BETTER (with the exception of 4xERLL builds...that is the only one that outranges the 5SS enough to matter...which is typical. Clans must be 1000m away to be better than IS.

[SnagaDance]

Gyrok, on 10 December 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Clans must be 1000m away to be better than IS.

Well, that's canon right? The IS won its first few battles versus the Clans by negating the range advantage (+ ignoring zelbriggen [which is unenforcable within the game] and using as many dirty tricks as they could).

[Mott]

Xythius, on 10 December 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Oh noes! An IS 'mech can out perform the flagship Clan heavy in a small niche application! What ever shall we do??!!

Seriously, the Thunderwub IS powerful w/ its wubbiness. With ONLY that build. So the T-wolf goes back to the mechlab, throws on a couple large pulse & some ermeds & takes out the T-wub from range - you know, something a smart player might do. Whats the TDR gonna do then? He has to hide in cover or get smoked before he gets in range.

Wrong - both counts.

The King outperforms the DWF, period. Not in a niche application. Pure outperformance, hands-down. Ain't right.

The Thunderwub is NOT the only crazy good TDR. This TDR-9S can sling 4 (FOUR) ERPPCs with 50% less heat and 25% cooldown. 1vs1 it absolutely destroys any TBR you can build.

A 3x ERPPC + 3xML + extra heat sinks is also viable and would still destroy any TBR.

Edited by Mott, 10 December 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[Kain Demos]

Mott, on 10 December 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

The Thunderwub is NOT the only crazy good TDR. This TDR-9S can sling 4 (FOUR) ERPPCs with 50% less heat and 25% cooldown. 1vs1 it absolutely destroys any TBR you can build.

Holy ****--7.5 heat for 10 pinpoint damage?

How is this 'mech not everywhere already?

Yoseful Mallad, on 10 December 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

that's just bad map design lol. Granted, some of these heavies and assaults should take longer to get up most landscapes. But in no way should a small step up or something like stepping out of a river, stop any mech from doing so. The map designs and restrictions on mech movement is just BAD in this game.

If by river he means that shallow stream near the outer edge of the map that thing ******* pisses me off when I'm in a Dire Wolf. If we fight down there but then we need to get up top I can't even walk out of that stream without extreme difficulty due to that tiny little lip. So I have to:

Find a place where I can get out of the stream
Find a place with a ramp to get up the first "ring"
Find a place with a ramp to finally get up top

Often times this takes too long and by the time I get to the top the party is over.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 December 2014 - 09:04 PM, said:

Not trying to rattle too many cages, but let's think this out. The KGC is 100 tons, slow, with MASSIVE firepower potential. Yet it has insane agility (considering), and traverses hills with relative ease, because they give it the "Large" movement archetype.

The Clan Gargoyle, with it's ridiculously over the top 400xl engine, 20 tons less mass, and medium mech class firepower.... gets less agility and is a "Huge" movement archetype, like the Atlas and Direwolf.

C'mon guys, I support ya in a lot of things, but like the Summoner, mobility is the ONLY thing the Gargoyle has going for it. The speed is nice. But getting slowed to a Sisyphian crawl every time one encounters a pebble or incline, really pretty well negates that speed.

I was about to say I was fine with the sizes (and think the Gargoyle is kinda small considering its BT size). But then saw this was about movement archetypes... and its like "Wait, what?"

Sure enough, KGC is large and Gargoyle is huge movement archetype. This makes as much sense as a single shot AC/20 being the smaller than a burst fire Clan AC/2.

Which for anyone confused, I'm saying it makes absolutely no sense at all.

[HlynkaCG]

Mott, on 10 December 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

Wrong - both counts.


The King outperforms the DWF, period. Not in a niche application. Pure outperformance, hands-down. Ain't right.

The Thunderwub is NOT the only crazy good TDR. This TDR-9S can sling 4 (FOUR) ERPPCs with 50% less heat and 25% cooldown. 1vs1 it absolutely destroys any TBR you can build.

A 3x ERPPC + 3xML + extra heat sinks is also viable and would still destroy any TBR.

Now I know you're joking.

There's no way you're going to get ,3+ ER PPCs on a TDR without being squishy as hell (IS XL Engine) or hot as hell (minimal heat-sinks).

[Xythius]

Mott, on 10 December 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

Wrong - both counts.

The King outperforms the DWF, period. Not in a niche application. Pure outperformance, hands-down. Ain't right.

The Thunderwub is NOT the only crazy good TDR. This TDR-9S can sling 4 (FOUR) ERPPCs with 50% less heat and 25% cooldown. 1vs1 it absolutely destroys any TBR you can build.

A 3x ERPPC + 3xML + extra heat sinks is also viable and would still destroy any TBR.

1) Discussion was between the TDR-5SS & TBR. Reading comprehension ftw!

2) Again - discussion focussed on the TDR-5SS & TBR.

However, you proved my point handidly - the TBR will out perform the TDR's @ range.

So, thanks!

[Mott]

HlynkaCG, on 10 December 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Now I know you're joking.

There's no way you're going to get ,3+ ER[size=4] PPCs on a TDR without being squishy as hell (IS XL Engine) or hot as hell (minimal heat-sinks).

Try it out, it's not squishy if you're twisting... and even if you don't twist nobody is going to sit there slugging it out with you as you smoke them with ERPPCs repeatedly. Definitely they won't do it long enough to strip your armor and hit your XL crits, unless you're aim sucks and you're splashing PPC damage all over their mech.

[Kain Demos]

HlynkaCG, on 10 December 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

Now I know you're joking.

There's no way you're going to get ,3+ ER[size=4] PPCs on a TDR without being squishy as hell (IS XL Engine) or hot as hell (minimal heat-sinks).

Just playing in Smurfy you can easily get 3 on there with no other weapons and a STD 300, still good for 82kph. 13 DHS should be enough if the heat value is now 7.5 on them, just wow.

That's pretty damn strong for a 65 ton 'mech.

[Mott]

Xythius, on 10 December 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

1) Discussion was between the TDR-5SS & TBR. Reading comprehension ftw!

2) Again - discussion focussed on the TDR-5SS & TBR.

Not good tact to criticize someone's lack of reading comprehension... when you're the one at fault for not comprehending your own words.

Quote

Seriously, the Thunderwub IS powerful w/ its wubbiness. With ONLY that build. So the T-wolf goes back to the mechlab, throws on a couple large pulse & some ermeds & takes out the T-wub from range - you know, something a smart player might do. Whats the TDR gonna do then? He has to hide in cover or get smoked before he gets in range.

You specified that the thunderwub is powerful but "ONLY that build". My post pointed out that the TDR has another very powerful build. From your own quote i'm seeing the TDR chassis generally addressed... no specifics as to only the 5SS.

[SgtMagor]

I don't care if they don't want to switch movement type, but give the MOW a speed boost quirk, , its an 80ton scout mech...

[Metus regem]

Ultimatum X, on 09 December 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

I agree with you, but good luck with this one.


How many endless threads I've had to wade through about how OP the Dire Wolf is and now that we get the King Crab with something like double the torso yaw and torso twist speeds that put every assault to shame you don't hear a peep out of most players.

So apparently it's ok to rock a STD engine level survivability, 2x AC 20s, Stalker mounted energy hardpoints and also be surprisingly agile...but only if your an IS mech.

'Cause you know, "Clanz r p2w!!!111!!oneoneone"

Yea... sure.... Not like both sides are more or less balanced now as the last test showed...

And before someone goes on about how the clans won 60% or so of their matches, they had an ELO advantage that should have had them winning that much. With that ELO advantage if they had only won 50% then something would be seriously wrong.

Anyways, with the King Crab being as agile as it is, I think that should warrant the Dire Wolf getting looked at to be made to move like the Crab does, as they are the most comparable to each other.

[BOWMANGR]

Yeah, let's buff all the Assaults to bring them up to Crab level of mobility because you know, Lights dominate the game already and they surely need a deterrent.

Assaults should get slower twist speeds, not faster. The Crab DEFINITELY needs a twitch nerf. All Heavies should get slower too. I'm not even a Light pilot. It's just sad to see those Light percentages...

Edited by BOWMANGR, 10 December 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Lightfoot]

No one will take the Gargoyle as is to CW Dropship matches and you have to assume people's mech choices in PUGs will be aimed at the CW weight requirement of 240 tons divided by 4 mechs. I would actually give the Gargoyle the Heavy mech movement, it is almost a Heavy anyway. This is what the Lore suggests also.

Edited by Lightfoot, 10 December 2014 - 09:05 AM.