28 replies to this topic

[Av4tar]

just unlock all the locked components on the clan mechs, right?
What do you think?

[MrZakalwe]

Still wouldn't help. Quirks allow PGI to balance out the fact that not all mech geometries/hardpoints are made equal.

We'd go back to the bad old days where the viability of a mech was determined entirely by it's shape and hardpoints.

Edited by MrZakalwe, 10 December 2014 - 11:00 AM.

[FupDup]

That would have...consequences. Grave consequences.


The locked components are the main source of inter-Clan inequalities, but at the same time they also serve to counteract (usually) the advantages of Clan gear. Having full min-max potential with the power of Clan stuff would be obnoxiously powerful, and would make the current Timber Wolf look like a pre-quirk Quickdraw.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Neg, they could use quirks for sure. While it would help mechs like the Summoner free up space dropping those JJ, it wouldnt do much for the other mechs.

[Walluh]

I'm not sure you understand what would happen if a Timberwolf could drop it's engine size.

[MrZakalwe]

Walluh, on 10 December 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I'm not sure you understand what would happen if a Timberwolf could drop it's engine size.

Or an Adder could increase it with those Clan SRMs

[LT. HARDCASE]

You can't group up all the Clan mechs, and say "they" don't need quirks.

The Timber Wolf, Stormcrow, and Dire Wolf are many tiers above the likes of the Adder, Myst Lynx, Ice Ferret, and Summoner.

It'd be like grouping the Vindicator with the Shadow Hawk and Griffin.

Edited by Kevjack, 10 December 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

what about the Nova, ya it got -10% Heat Gen,
but thats noting to how much heat it generates,
what it needed was +10% heat displacement,
so Nova's can ditch the heat they generate,

[Khobai]

clan mechs definitely need quirks

some need negative quirks though

[Sundervine]

what they should do, is break the timeline to allow for some of the more advanced components for the clans. That would allow for a great balance overall for the unlocking of endo steal and xl engines,

For the engine, you should not be able to choose standard or xl but insteal xxl engines. I know you say what! that would allow for EVEN more weapons... Yeah well clan weapons area already nerfed into the ground so thats not a problem. What that does do is give the clans a way to die from just one torso gone. It would even the clans and the IS TTK wise. Also they generate twice as much movement heat and heat while standing still. For the clans as currently in the game, this would be a great trade off since heat is already as much of an enemy as your actual enemy.

Then allow the clans to have Endo Composite only for their internal structure upgrade. That is more than fair since it is only 4 slots but also only a 75% reduction in weight savings.

The engine items would make you think, keep that either to large or to small engine, or make my mech must easier to kill. While the IS would never be used on a mech that did not already have normal endo steal, but would at least help mechs that did not have it. Both are a perfect fix for clan being inferior to IS mechs in everything but durability.

[Monkey Lover]

removing a few jj and giving clan mechs endo would help a lot of them but not all of them.

[LordKnightFandragon]

MrZakalwe, on 10 December 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Or an Adder could increase it with those Clan SRMs

I would drop the flamer faster than a hearbeat.....

Walluh, on 10 December 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I'm not sure you understand what would happen if a Timberwolf could drop it's engine size.

What would happen?

[0bsidion]

In some cases, like the TW, locked components act as a balancer. But for the under-performing mechs, maybe some limited component unlocks, like JJs, Endo and Ferro. You could probably get away with that on the Summoner because it's limited amount of hardpoints would keep it from becoming a god of death, and the Nova because it's a squat ground hugger profile limits the way it can engage enemies. But if I were them I'd look at unlocking upgrades and JJs before seriously considering unlocking engines in most cases. Giving a mech Endo frees up a few tons, but unlocking engines can mean the difference between packing an Mg and packing a gauss rifle.

[Ph30nix]

the Clan Trinity doesnt need quirks

the rest of the clan mechs need at least minor ones.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

How a newbie justifies this fallacy with a valid, but unsound argument.

Three specific mechs are frequently used for meta (Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, Stormcrow)
Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, and Stormcrow are Clan mechs.
Therefore, all Clan Mechs are overpowered.

[Kain Demos]

FupDup, on 10 December 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

That would have...consequences. Grave consequences.


The locked components are the main source of inter-Clan inequalities, but at the same time they also serve to counteract (usually) the advantages of Clan gear. Having full min-max potential with the power of Clan stuff would be obnoxiously powerful, and would make the current Timber Wolf look like a pre-quirk Quickdraw.

I disagree strongly. Unlocking Endo and Ferro would have ZERO effect on Stormcrow and Timberwolf--they already have them.

A 'mech like the Nova though could really benefit from ES structure. The Hellbringer is out now though and with ES would enable it to have Timberwolf levels of firepower which some might think is "OP". So really the 'mechs that would benefit would be the ones that everyone thinks of as "subpar".

Now unlocking engines as well I think would be the same. The Stormcrow and Timberwolf have huge engines for their tonnage so I doubt anyone would look to make them go faster and if they did they would lose out on firepower. As far as going down in engine to fit more weapons I don't think that would necessarily make them "better" either--people that complain about these two 'mechs complain that they are both fast and strong. Dropping engine size to pack more weaponry would make them stronger yes, but they would no longer be fast, there would be a tradeoff.

Engine unlocks could be limited also so that it would only help certain 'mechs--make them upgradeable only in mutliples of the 'mechs tonnage. Again I'll use the Nova as an example--you could move up to a 300 engine and add ES and be much faster with basically the same tonnage to work with as stock. The "optimum" 'mechs would be unable to upgrade and if they did downgrade they would do so at a severe speed penalty just to add a bit more firepower.

[Mcgral18]

LordKnightFandragon, on 10 December 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

I would drop the flamer faster than a hearbeat.....


What would happen?

40 tons of guns moving at 71+? Something inbetween that and what we have now is likely the case.

[Lily from animove]

ed3n1, on 10 December 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

just unlock all the locked components on the clan mechs, right?
What do you think?

No, the IS mechs got quirks, and all are free for everything. and wyhy they got those quirks? because chassis and hardpoints decide how good a mech is. And by this the clanners do need quirks as well, becasue some lore happyists would rage about such a system.

yet if everything would be free to change I would love to play my Nova with ES+FF and some additional DHS put in the upgraded engine. because with the total free construction rules slots aren'tT a problem at all when finaly DHS can go into the engine.

XL 300 +3 dhs in the mech.
would at least adress some of the nova's true issues: mobility.

0bsidion, on 10 December 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

In some cases, like the TW, locked components act as a balancer. But for the under-performing mechs, maybe some limited component unlocks, like JJs, Endo and Ferro. You could probably get away with that on the Summoner because it's limited amount of hardpoints would keep it from becoming a god of death, and the Nova because it's a squat ground hugger profile limits the way it can engage enemies. But if I were them I'd look at unlocking upgrades and JJs before seriously considering unlocking engines in most cases. Giving a mech Endo frees up a few tons, but unlocking engines can mean the difference between packing an Mg and packing a gauss rifle.

so exolain what you would change and make the TBR even more epic? I guess you won't, because right now by already having these upgrades + being top in the weight class, SCR and TBR are already optimised. make it faster, less pew pew. make it more pew pew, and it has to go slower. quite a lot balance then. They cna not be stronger they are at the optimum. only those mechs below the optimum would catch up, but yet never match them diue to not being mac tonnage in their weight class.

and finally imagien an adder being fast and with CERSL, a workign emch now instad of the rather slow and big thing it is now havign lots of heat troubles with CERPPC or CERL(P)L. But right now at its speed SPL's in a number of 4 or CERSL is quite suicidal.

The Holy trio would not get godlike, but the others would benefit quite a lot.

Edited by Lily from animove, 10 December 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[FupDup]

Kain Thul, on 10 December 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

I disagree strongly. Unlocking Endo and Ferro would have ZERO effect on Stormcrow and Timberwolf--they already have them.

A 'mech like the Nova though could really benefit from ES structure. The Hellbringer is out now though and with ES would enable it to have Timberwolf levels of firepower which some might think is "OP". So really the 'mechs that would benefit would be the ones that everyone thinks of as "subpar".

Now unlocking engines as well I think would be the same. The Stormcrow and Timberwolf have huge engines for their tonnage so I doubt anyone would look to make them go faster and if they did they would lose out on firepower. As far as going down in engine to fit more weapons I don't think that would necessarily make them "better" either--people that complain about these two 'mechs complain that they are both fast and strong. Dropping engine size to pack more weaponry would make them stronger yes, but they would no longer be fast, there would be a tradeoff.

Engine unlocks could be limited also so that it would only help certain 'mechs--make them upgradeable only in mutliples of the 'mechs tonnage. Again I'll use the Nova as an example--you could move up to a 300 engine and add ES and be much faster with basically the same tonnage to work with as stock. The "optimum" 'mechs would be unable to upgrade and if they did downgrade they would do so at a severe speed penalty just to add a bit more firepower.

In the case of mechs that already came stock with Endo and FF, you could still min-max the engine rating to make them even stronger. The Timber and Crow could both drop their engines about 25 ratings or so to get a lot more tonnage to spend on guns while moving at still good speeds. The Crow could also mount some DHS in its engine to save critslots.

Those two mechs wouldn't get the most benefit from unlocked "cores," but they would still benefit.


The Hellbringer would probably ascend to Godlike territory with unlocked internals. Even now it's a very good mech. The only parts of it that could use buffs of any kind are the non-Prime left torsos, because it's pretty hard to compete against 3 energy hardpoints and ECM in a single body part.

Edited by FupDup, 10 December 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

The omnipods need a serious quirk pass. Everyone's just nailing together all the components with maximum number of hardpoints for each mech, slapping on the maximum number of medium lasers and SRM6s, or CUAC5's. The Clan meta is boring.

How many people are using normal autocannons? How many people are using LBX of smaller caliber than 20? How many people are using any small caliber autocannons at all? CAC2s, CUAC2s, CLB2X are all extremely rare. Even CUAC10 and CUAC20 are quite unusual on mechs with enough hardpoints to boat the CUAC5.

If omnipods with fewer hardpoints had significant cooldown and heat efficiency buffs for various weapons, we might seen more variation and less laser vomiting. It might even encourage people to stop boating, if you could combine a rapidfiring CERPPC with a super cool CLB10X on the Summoner, for example.