25 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior3671771]

Help keep a noob from gimping his team!

Hey gents, I'm a dedicated Light pilot looking at my drop deck with some concern. I've played MW 1-4 and have been an LAV-25 gunner in real life, so I know how important a good scout can be. I'm also a "reformed" min-maxer in the sense that I will push to win but not at the expense of breaking game balance.

But I'm looking at my drop deck thinking that bringing 4 lights and leaving 100+ tons in the mech bay is madness.

First problem is the Raven 3L vs the Cicada line. The Raven's electronics package makes it a great scout, and I think making it my main would give me an expert understanding of how BAP and ECM work seperately and in tandem for this version of MW. I'm not worried about OP vs Nerf issues because I think they will go through several rounds of balancing - be flexible, expect changes, but a good scout should be very familiar with how BAP and ECM works. So the Raven 3L should give me that experience, although it's a bit risky (c-bill & XP earnings lower) to choose as my first mech purchase...

OTOH, I've read some wise commentary from drop min-maxers that bringing a Raven with BAP Narc TAG variant will hurt your team more than help. Hence the Cicada alternative - still has ECM but more DPS means it's a hybrid-light that can scout but also be a light killer and even support heavies with flanking runs. As a new player, the Cicada line also has a hero and champion chasis I can buy with MC to take advantage of +30% to c-bills and XP (I think GXP will be my grind while I "catch up" to the vets in CW, so my plan is to level up under Premium Time, buy Heros/Champion for the bonuses and c-bills saved on XLs double heat sinks and endo steel upgrades). Looks like the Cicada is a good choice for that approach?

Second concern is that even though I am a light scout, I need to master a heavy chasis so I am not leaving 100 tons in the mechbay when I drop for CW. Now I know 240 is not written in stone and max limits may change depending on map and mission, but 240 is a good benchmark (I also have a suspicion we will see 240 a lot because it divides so easily by 40 60 and 80).

So if I go with 60-65 ton chasis, my drop deck looks like this:
60/65 + 60/65 + 35/40 +35/40 = 190-210 tons, or even
60/65 + 60/65 + 60/65 + 35/40 = 215-235 for more flexibilty
Does that seem smart?

The 60-65 toners I'm looking at are the Catapult and Dragon. The logic behind going with the Cat is that as a Light Scout, the best way for me to learn what my team missile boats expect is to play one. It's speed will get missiles up to the FEBA quicker than assault boats. And it also has a decent energy beam variant with weps mounted high if I need to bring lasers. The dragon looks good as it has more versatile loadouts and even a missile boat variant to teach me what missile boat pilots need from me as a scout. It also has 3 variants with c-bill and XP bonuses I can buy with MCs, which lines up with my strategy to min max cbill and GXP earnings

So, as a new player starting up for CW, what do you rec as my first set of mechs? Raven or Cicada, Catapult or Dragon. Goal here is to level up my drop deck quickly. And btw how many hours grind to level up 3 variants of a chasis? I'm working under the assumption that maxing out a light and heavy will take several months? I can grind about 30hrs per week.

Thanks
Fen

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 12 December 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[salkeee]

Just to point out Dragons are 60t
I m just about to start CW my self so not sure that I can help U with what deck should U bring in 1st thou to me it doesnt matter really.It all depends on what mech U like more so U lvl up those 1st.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Ah thanks for the correction. Will fix.

[HlynkaCG]

I can see just from you're post that we're going to have a lot of ground to cover. I honestly don't know where to start. If you're online and have team speak installed come find me on ts3.hhod.com:7345, there's no password for non-drop rooms.

General rules of thumb, bring what you are good at, I would be more worried about bring a mech that is not mastered and optimized to your play style than I would about bringing a specific variant.

Lights are unforgiving, not mechs that I would recommend to newbies.

The Raven 3L (the ECM variant) is a solid mech and ECM + BAP is a good thing to have but it is still a light and not the best thing to be running in a brawl, especially as a newbie.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 12 December 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Airox]

If you like scouts then starting with a Raven-3L with 2 ER large lasers is a good start. Naturally, you could try out the spotting style with the ravens as well.

Getting Cicadas afterwards is not a bad option, but I wouldn't start with it. The 3L is considered one of the best light mechs for staying at distance.

If you're playing lights, then you should definitely try the Firestarter. It's considered the best light mech. The play style is much different as it needs to get closer, but that variation of play style is always good so you don't get stuck doing the same thing every time!

Finally in terms of a bigger mech, I would go bigger than 65t. If you're concerned about learning what is needed from a spotter then the Stalker is a good option. The misery is a great hero mech. Plus 2 stalker and 2 raven = 35+35+85+85=240. Also, I recommend moving away from LRMs at some point, and both mechs can do so well. I say move away from LRMs because coming from the competitive side of the game, LRMs just aren't as good as direct fire weapons once you get to a certain skill level. Of course, if you enjoy them, then have fun and fire away!

[MechWarrior3671771]

Hylinka, thanks but I have about 10 years exp running Light exclusively for Capture The Flag in MW 3-4. Using cover, evading alphas, getting into dogfights with other fast lights, shooting and hitting on the move at 171mph.

If I can't make that work here then I should grab a walker and go back to playing Civ3

Airox, I'll check that out. I guess I really won't know until I can drop and see how the heavier mechs handle. I'm still 3 weeks from Dell delivering my new computer and my current rig is dead (safe boot hangs after win32 driver crcdsk.sys loads) unless I can find a Vista restore disk. Really sucks - like having a Corvette in the garage that you cant use till Jan.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 12 December 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

There is also a minimum tonnage limit of 140 at present.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 12 December 2014 - 10:03 AM.

[Soul Tribunal]

My personal experience is two fold, and it has worked so far.
You want to bring in around 40-55 tons on your first 3 mechs and then have one big big hammer for your last one.
I've found that near end game if the game has been a pretty even draw, a final influx of assaults into the fray can tip the scales all the way over.
I was on ZIOn, and the opposing team had been dropping assualts since the start of the match, while these can be deadly in their own right, they were too easily focused down by our forces even though it cost us a bit. When it came down to 4 of us dropping in our last mechs, we all had brought KGC's and it was the Hammer to the opposing team. They had expended all their capable mechs and allowed us to just mop it up at that point.
I repeated the same feat the drop after in my Victor. I saved it right until the end and with SRM's and AC20 dismantled the opposing forces.

So, from a personal standpoint I would opt for perhaps the following Chassis (Since mediums are really the best balance for CW operations).

- Cent/BJ/SHK in that order , I find the Cents are best at tanking damage and being ZOmbies which is SO important in CW. BJ for fast firing AC's , you just need good trigger control. SHK's are awesome, but they are big targets. If you can stay out of sight of people trying to kill you you're better off. Cicada's do have a place too, I just haven't brought mine yet to CW.

Now you need the hammer..

KGC's are pretty damn awesome, late game you risk running an XL version with Dual AC20's and just rip things up.
Victor is good too, mobility is really the key for these CW maps.
Just pick something big, and stay alive in all your other mechs for as long as possible. When the time comes wait for a few others to drop in their big guns and try and plow your way through to the end.

I hope my post made sense

-ST

[TheCaptainJZ]

My suggestion for which mechs to get is to look at what mechs (keeping in mind IS vs Clan) you see most often on the battlefield. Those are the ones you should consider purchasing.
Firestarters are probably the best light mechs right now. You never see Cicadas however. A Jenner is a smaller version of a Cicada and has approximately the same playstyle, though it's faster and 5 less tons. There is one Cicada that has ECM though. The Raven 3L also has ECM but the rest of the Raven line is weaker. Both chassis are more support than front line. Jenners are harassers and have always done well against other lights. I'd say the Firestarter is still the best.

I like Catapults but you really don't see many of them. I think they are an overall decent chassis for new players. Easy to use and all, but not the best. They are XL friendly, but that requires purchasing that engine. Otherwise, they are not too expensive. Stalkers are much better LRM boats. Dragons have been weak mechs since the very beginning. They have a variety of hardpoints, but they seem hard to use them effectively. However with the new quirks, you now see them on the battlefield. I have never owned one so I can't properly evaluate them.

Also, for a Jack of all trades 55 ton medium, go with the Shadowhawk.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Oh yeah, and I have really enjoyed the Blackjack line. I find them to be nimble mechs. They are only 40 tons.

[3xnihilo]

Soul tribunal- that would be my strategy (if I didn't get too impatient waiting for a cw match) except my Centurion is my heavy hitter at the end Spider-Spider-Jenner-Centurion. I might be doing it wrong.

Op-if you are looking to be a dedicated scout, you will want to find a team to join. That way you can communicate with your team on ts and also be assured that if you are tagging, NARCing, spotting that your team actually has some lrm's. I have dropped into so many pugs with a narcing raven only to find out no one brought lrm's and I was pretty much useless. It is frustrating. Another consideration is that a lot of light mechs in mwo set up really well as hit&run strikers/harassers which plays differently than scouting but is very fun in my opinion. I mention this because if you go Ravens the 3l is a great spotter/scout/sniper but the hero is an srm harasser/striker (and amazing post quirks I understand) so when you are leveling them out you will need to learn both roles (as well as many others, like ecm support or assault escort, etc.). You may know all this already from experience in other games but I thought I would post just in case. Happy Hunting Mechwarrior!

[Flak Kannon]

Hi Fen,

The Raven 3L is solid.

The main problem with the 2 ERLL build is this. Yes you can go hide 700meters away, but your first long range salvo will give away your position.

So if you want to play the 3L, in my opinion, it is best served as a light harrasser, long range spotter, ecm bubble provider. 3 ML and 2 Streaks with ECM and BAP. Get weapon modules for Advanced Senor Range, and Advanced Target decay, and be more of the LRM spotter and light deterrent to the LRM boat. Other may see it differently.


If you want to Long Range snipe, the 3L is good and solid at it, but if the Firestarters or Jenners find you alone, you are neither agile or fast enough to usually win 1 v 1 battles verse the more nimble, laser focused lights. You do have an edge against lights that are Streak Heavy because of your ecm, but that's really not a common thing nowadays.

If you want to long range snipe, maybe consider the Dragon line of mechs. You stuff in a XL300 and you can get a guass and 2 ERLL lasers in it and still maintain over 80 KPH which is good to reposition. You are faster than all Assaults.

You can also play the snipe game with Jagers. In the DD you can stuff 1 Gauss, 5 Machine guns and 2 lasers of your choice, with an XL300. I like 1 Medium Laser, 1 Large Laser. Carries of alot ammo, doesn't heat up, and will go 82 kph with speed tweak opened, 75 without. A decent sniper.

Edited by Flak Kannon, 12 December 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[Airox]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 December 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Airox, I'll check that out. I guess I really won't know until I can drop and see how the heavier mechs handle. I'm still 3 weeks from Dell delivering my new computer and my current rig is dead (safe boot hangs after win32 driver crcdsk.sys loads) unless I can find a Vista restore disk. Really sucks - like having a Corvette in the garage that you cant use till Jan.

I would have so much trouble waiting 3 weeks!! Good luck to you! Oh, and light vs. heavier is night and day in difference. But that variation keeps things fun and interesting.

If you need help at some point, most units are very helpful to players getting on their feet. I know the Seraphim is!

[MechWarrior3671771]

Oh no worries I am definately joining a team for CW. The level of competition I'm expecting requires a group experienced at working together on tight comms. Going to wait until I finish my 25 cadet matches before that though. Need to drop with teams on TS before I decide what fits best.

Of course, if RAGE ever groups up for CW and they are no longer ticked off at me...

[salkeee]

Soul Tribunal, on 12 December 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

My personal experience is two fold, and it has worked so far.
You want to bring in around 40-55 tons on your first 3 mechs and then have one big big hammer for your last one.
I've found that near end game if the game has been a pretty even draw, a final influx of assaults into the fray can tip the scales all the way over.
I was on ZIOn, and the opposing team had been dropping assualts since the start of the match, while these can be deadly in their own right, they were too easily focused down by our forces even though it cost us a bit. When it came down to 4 of us dropping in our last mechs, we all had brought KGC's and it was the Hammer to the opposing team. They had expended all their capable mechs and allowed us to just mop it up at that point.
I repeated the same feat the drop after in my Victor. I saved it right until the end and with SRM's and AC20 dismantled the opposing forces.

So, from a personal standpoint I would opt for perhaps the following Chassis (Since mediums are really the best balance for CW operations).

- Cent/BJ/SHK in that order , I find the Cents are best at tanking damage and being ZOmbies which is SO important in CW. BJ for fast firing AC's , you just need good trigger control. SHK's are awesome, but they are big targets. If you can stay out of sight of people trying to kill you you're better off. Cicada's do have a place too, I just haven't brought mine yet to CW.

Now you need the hammer..

KGC's are pretty damn awesome, late game you risk running an XL version with Dual AC20's and just rip things up.
Victor is good too, mobility is really the key for these CW maps.
Just pick something big, and stay alive in all your other mechs for as long as possible. When the time comes wait for a few others to drop in their big guns and try and plow your way through to the end.

I hope my post made sense

-ST

Well good thinking but I also could disagree.

If one brings Heavier mechs at the begining and than goes to lighter ones,it has it advantages in a way that at the begining of a match where U are armored U survive more and thus hammer ppl at the start of match and at late game where many enemy ppl are out of game now ur lighter mechs have more room to manever or specialy if ur on atacking side U can focus on objective much much more easyer than with slower ones.

Afther all it really is important that at most times team is ballanced being at start with full light team is a joke as is being in a team of full Assaults.

[HlynkaCG]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 December 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Hylinka, thanks but I have about 10 years exp running Light exclusively for Capture The Flag in MW 3-4. Using cover, evading alphas, getting into dogfights with other fast lights, shooting and hitting on the move at 171mph.

If I can't make that work here then I should grab a walker and go back to playing Civ3

As did I, but MWO is a different sort of beast, not saying that that knowledge won't apply so much as saying that you have one hell of a learning curve cliff in front of you.

[MechWarrior3671771]

I think using faster mechs to locate and fix the enemy in place will be more important than raw DPS for the first drop. We'll see.

Thanks all for the feedback on the Raven. I'll give the Firestarter and Jenner a second look, but it sounds like the Raven is an integral part of a scout's mech bay. I'll grab it and work up Ravens as my 2d purchase. Going to take Hylinka's advice and go bigger for my first mech purchase.

Still deciding on a heavy/assault for my 1st. Maybe something with most speed and maneuverability for its class, versatile loadout, but also a decent brawler variant.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 12 December 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[Soul Tribunal]

salkeee, on 12 December 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Well good thinking but I also could disagree.

If one brings Heavier mechs at the begining and than goes to lighter ones,it has it advantages in a way that at the begining of a match where U are armored U survive more and thus hammer ppl at the start of match and at late game where many enemy ppl are out of game now ur lighter mechs have more room to manever or specialy if ur on atacking side U can focus on objective much much more easyer than with slower ones.

Afther all it really is important that at most times team is ballanced being at start with full light team is a joke as is being in a team of full Assaults.

Both strategies have merit. I merely was giving my experience in CW thus far.
If you mix chassis correctly it can work. But I have still found that Assaults at the early stages are focused down too quickly. And this is even in 12 man groups opposing us.
Right at the end, you can break through if you play it right. And you can lose as well (as I have in one of 10 matches now).

Everyone will experience something different when they do a CW, as it is so dependent on if you are attack or defence, and what your team has brought to the battle.

-ST

[HlynkaCG]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 December 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

I think using faster mechs to locate and fix the enemy in place will be more important than raw DPS for the first drop. We'll see.

Thanks all for the feedback on the Raven. I'll give the Firestarter and Jenner a second look, but it sounds like the Raven is an integral part of a scout's mech bay. I'll grab it and work up Ravens as my 2d purchase. Going to take Hylinka's advice and go bigger for my first mech purchase.

Still deciding on a heavy/assault for my 1st. Maybe something with most speed and maneuverability for its class, versatile loadout, but also a decent brawler variant.

I'd actually reccomend a hunchback or one of the IS 55 tonners (shadowhawk, wolverine, griffon) as a first mech. they're still fast but much more forgiving than the lights.

[Alekzander Smirnoff]

My suggestion, from how I've looked at both invasion maps, is that you should bring a pair of short range and a pair of long range mech's. The hot map is brawl friendly with lots of cover, while the ice map is very open and large distances to cover which require ranged equipment to deal with clan mech's. Also, in my case, I'm using mostly mixed range mech's to deal with short and long range threats. Not the best loadout's but they're competitive enough that I can support from the rear while lumbering up in an assault or whatever I happen to be dropping in.