77 replies to this topic

[R Razor]

Funny, I bring mechs with Ballistics AND Lasers and have not yet had to eject because I ran out of ammunition. Seems to me like if you use balanced builds, actually AIM instead of "Spray and Pray" and fight like it matters instead of like it's COD with giant stompy robots, you'll have enough ammunition to last you the life of your mech.

[Big C]

i am fine with the ammo req, using a missile boat and aAC/5 LM centurion. Whiners gonna whine

[Alexandrix]

Nah.that's the point of energy weapons.
If you overload on ballistics/missiles with no backup weapons.....that's the price you pay.

[Thunder Child]

OMG. Ammo is actually balanced now? GG.

Seriously, Learn to Mech people. This isn't CoD.

[Sandpit]

No

On the surface it sounds like a cool idea but let's start with this

Grrzoot, on 12 December 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

It is a clear disadvantage vs laser mechs with this type of protracted engagement and i think some effort should be made to equalize this without changing anything of the mechs themselves (more ammo per ton etc)

Lord de Seis, on 12 December 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

I don't like it, you will see people exploiting it. Carry only 2-3 tons of ammo in LRM and reload constantly.

Victor Morson, on 12 December 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

God help you if you don't have backup weapons (Twin Gauss mechs, for example).

basically you're asking to take away the one major drawback of ballistic mechs. They outperform lasers (especially on the IS side) in every aspect except this. Don't spam your ammo, take more ammo, or build better designs that carry backup weapons.

There's a reason there are ammo limits. You're essentially asking for unlimited ammo mode. I don't want to see dual AC20 builds carrying 2 tons of ammo able to exploit the system and not have to sacrifice crit slots, weight, etc. just so they can reload unlimited times during the match.

Make better decisions regarding your builds and your ammo conservation, but please don't ask for unlimited ammo mode. Unless like someone else asked earlier in this thread, can lasers get unlimited coolshots? That would offset the trade-off for ammo dependent and poorly planed builds getting unlimited ammo mode.

[Sandpit]

Alistair Winter, on 12 December 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

It really annoys me that I basically have to self-destruct when I run out of ammo, because I don't want to nerf my team running around in a mech with only a few lasers. This leads to a meta where everyone's just bringing lasers, as if they didn't have plenty of incentive to do that already.

No, it leads to people making better decisions on balancing a build or paying the price for building niche style mechs that don't perform well outside of a very narrow scope.

No unlimited ammo mode.

Want to repair?
Hey I'm all for that actually. Repair to say something like 25% of current "health" with no ability to replace destroyed locations. Your mech is at 25% health? You can repair up to 50% within the above limitations. Oh and no weapons or equipment are replaced either. Just armor repairs.

There shouldn't be some magic way for a field repair kit to restore lost limbs, destroyed components, etc.

These ideas are just a slippery slope to creating unlimited ammo and unlimited health mode. As others have said, this isn't CoD, you don't just hide behind a corner and let your medic heal you back up magically.

[SirLANsalot]

No.

Just No.


If you are having ammo issues and running out, THEN TAKE MORE AMMO! CW is going to force people to change there builds up...a lot, and this is a VERY good thing.

Also, ALWAYS have a pair of medium lasers at the VERY least on your mech, this means even if/when ammo runs out, your not a walking useless piece of junk and can still fight to the very end without wasting a mech. The Cataphract 4x with 4 AC5's (one of the oldest builds around with that many ballistics in MWO) still runs its 2 ML in the CT, because that mech cannot ever take enough ammo to be fed all game, even in normal games, much less CW.

I see stupid Jager mechs running pure ballistics in CW, and know that he is a free kill or just one less guy to work with once he runs out. Now if he was a SMART pilot, he would of taken 2 ML with him and he would still be a threat to the very end.


I am happy to see CW teaching people to always have energy on them, NEVER leave home without it. As for the few mechs that are ammo only mechs, just tone down the caliber of the gun to take on more ammo, or run without SRMs or smaller SRMs to save on ammo and to take on more ammo.

[kapusta11]

I dunno, the game could use some free consumables like a pair of cool shots and 1 ammo pack (50% of what you take in battle), nothing crazy like unlimited ammo.

Backup wapons aren't really an option, you're better off taking fresh mech and contribute to overall team's damage.

PS: Got top score in energy boat once, only used that one mech throughout the entire game. so energy mechs have an edge in some sense.

Edited by kapusta11, 13 December 2014 - 12:49 AM.

[Sandpit]

kapusta11, on 13 December 2014 - 12:42 AM, said:

I dunno, the game could use some free consumables like a pair of cool shots and 1 ammo pack (50% of what you take in battle), nothing crazy like unlimited ammo.

Backup wapons aren't really an option, you're better off taking fresh mech and contribute to overall team's damage.

PS: Got top score in energy boat once, only used that one mech throughout the entire game.

some have gotten to used to "spam ammo since it's just a deathmatch" mentality. Now they're having to rethink the "Eh, 3 tons of ammo will be enough for a 6 minute deathmatch"

These are prolonged engagements and it's a matter of (yet again) people not wanting to adapt to a different environment. It's not hard to adapt. It's not hard to not spam ammo, it's not hard to build a more balanced mech that doesn't rely solely on ammo.

Drop deck weights, ammo limitations, bigger maps, objectives to achieve, these are good things that are all steps in the right direction to help diversify the game. If you want to not worry about ammo, drop pub queue.

I wonder what these people would and will do if logistics ever gets implemented and we actually have to start worrying about supply lines.

CW isn't a stand-alone deathmatch with no consequences for losses. If you want that, drop in the pub queue.

[Alistair Winter]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

No, it leads to people making better decisions on balancing a build or paying the price for building niche style mechs that don't perform well outside of a very narrow scope.
No unlimited ammo mode.

Spending 60 seconds + to reload would hardly be unlimited ammo mode.

Sandpit, on 13 December 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

Want to repair?
Hey I'm all for that actually. Repair to say something like 25% of current "health" with no ability to replace destroyed locations. Your mech is at 25% health? You can repair up to 50% within the above limitations. Oh and no weapons or equipment are replaced either. Just armor repairs.

I don't want that at all. Realistically, repairing your mech, especially the internals, should be far more difficult and time consuming than simply reloading.

Sandpit, on 13 December 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

There shouldn't be some magic way for a field repair kit to restore lost limbs, destroyed components, etc.
These ideas are just a slippery slope to creating unlimited ammo and unlimited health mode. As others have said, this isn't CoD, you don't just hide behind a corner and let your medic heal you back up magically.

I agree. I don't want field repairs. But a modern tank can reload very fast on the field of battle. Especially the ones that carry ammo easily accessible in the turret, instead of the hull, such as the M1 Abrams or Leopard 2.

As long as the time taken to reload is sufficiently high, I don't see how it can be abused.

[verybad]

Lord de Seis, on 12 December 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

That just means both side would kill each others repair sites ASAP and they would have no effect in the end.

Or...one side might defend their's!

Seriously, if you put stuff into the game that adds to strategy, then the game gets deeper. You say it like both teams would automatically get it with no effort.

Ammo reloads on the field in a destroyable structure would make the game better.

Same thign with artillery capability also on the field and destroyable (so if it's taken out, then you can't use artillery modules)

Lots of stuff could be added to the field that make defending your base mean something, and they can be in different areas, so different strategies might have attackers splitting up so they can hit more structures at the same time, but that also makes them more endangered if several mechs are defending a certain structure...

Edited by verybad, 13 December 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[Dirk Le Daring]

No.

No repair or rearm in the field....ever.

The idea is far too easily exploited, as was done in closed beta a couple of years ago.

The solution is to instead actually think about and plan your loadout for a longer duration mission.

Rearming and / or repairing in the field is for arcade games, not MechWarrior.

[Ax2Grind]

Every weapon system has disadvantageous and advantages. Lets not swing ballistics and missiles far out of their place by making unlimited ammo. That's silly. Can I also have unlimited airstrikes? What about triple cooling on my energy weapons? Quadruple armor? Three engines? Why more ammo but not replacement heat-sinks and armor?

Edited by Ax2Grind, 13 December 2014 - 04:40 PM.

[Ezazel]

No. The idea of ballistics is to have a low heat weapon with limited shots and the idea of lasers is to have unlimited shots with the cost of high heat. You have to choose. Can't have it all. Go take your super dakka / gauss build to public que. In CW you're going to need something more balanced.

[Sandpit]

Alistair Winter, on 13 December 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

Spending 60 seconds + to reload would hardly be unlimited ammo mode.

can you reload ammo?
it's unlimited ammo then. it allows for players to cheese ammo loads just like they did in the original R&R system. Just because you put a 60 second timer on a 30 minutes match doesn't somehow make it "limited"

People unable or unwilling to adjust for a new game mode should sitck to the other game modes that give them what they want already and stop expecting every part of the game to cater to them exclusively. Drop pub queue, it's there for those people to use and not have to worry about logistics. Problem solved.

verybad, on 13 December 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Ammo reloads on the field in a destroyable structure would make the game better.
...

No, it would make it better for YOU

Ezazel, on 13 December 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

No. The idea of ballistics is to have a low heat weapon with limited shots and the idea of lasers is to have unlimited shots with the cost of high heat. You have to choose. Can't have it all. Go take your super dakka / gauss build to public que. In CW you're going to need something more balanced.

Follow these tips and you'll never worry about ammo again

[BumbleBee]

Im torn on this one TBH.

On one hand, if you are going to be using ammo dependent builds, maybe you should have less other weapons and more ammo, or bring more backup weapons and use that ammo wisely. USE BALANCED BUILDS.
^^^Personal Preference^^^

On the other hand, if it takes ~7 seconds per slot of ammo (so both full tons and half tons) and you actually have to PAY for that ammo out of your inventory or winnings at the price in Mechlab, that could be a pretty good tradeoff.

Edited by BumbleBee, 13 December 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

can you reload ammo?
it's unlimited ammo then. it allows for players to cheese ammo loads just like they did in the original R&R system. Just because you put a 60 second timer on a 30 minutes match doesn't somehow make it "limited"

I'm not going to get into a discussion about semantics. We both understand each other's views.

Sandpit, on 13 December 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

People unable or unwilling to adjust for a new game mode should sitck to the other game modes that give them what they want already and stop expecting every part of the game to cater to them exclusively. Drop pub queue, it's there for those people to use and not have to worry about logistics. Problem solved.

People with a desire to change any aspect of the game in any way what so ever should express their desire on the forum and leave it to PGI to weigh the demands of the consumers with their own artistic vision.

[Sandpit]

Alistair Winter, on 13 December 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

I'm not going to get into a discussion about semantics. We both understand each other's views.

It's not semantics though. That's just it. Players not wanting to worry about things like
groups
premades
ammo for prologned battles
drop decks
planetary conquest
a "harder" game mode
logistics (those are in the works, do you think that's going to be "easier"?)
etc.

Don't have to play in it. They can play in pub and private matches.

Ammo is the major drawback to ammo dependent weapons. It's just like watching a player put together an LRM boat on a catapult and then complain when a Locust with 1 small laser destroys them because they can't fire back. Build a more balanced mech next time.

No matter how you cutt it or spin it, ammo "refills" are unlimited ammo because it completely and utterly dissolves the need to even make considerations about how much ammo to bring. Hell just bring 1 ton of ammo for any weapon you want, no biggy, you can always fill it back up.

This is one of the greatest things about CW thus far. All those cookie cutter builds that gave no thought for having to fight outside of a 3-4 minute deathmatch battle now have to diversify. No amount of argument, semantics, etc. changes that. That's exactly what's happening and it's a good thing.

If those players didn't have other options like the pub queue and such? Hey, I could see your argument. But they do. Drop pub queue if you don't want to worry about ammo.

[Mechsniper]

The problem is PGI "balanced" these weapons for a 12 man que. Ballistics are supposed to be > lasers for this reason alone. Your ballistics loadouts should hurt more than your lasers for this reason, because when the ammo is gone so is the weapon. More balance is in order imho. Maybe time to get rid of the ******** gauss charge up, etc.

[verybad]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

can you reload ammo?
it's unlimited ammo then. it allows for players to cheese ammo loads just like they did in the original R&R system. Just because you put a 60 second timer on a 30 minutes match doesn't somehow make it "limited"

If you have to go back over a minute to the reload structure shut down for a while, and then come back to the front line again over a minute or so, it's far from "infinite"

Quote

People unable or unwilling to adjust for a new game mode should sitck to the other game modes that give them what they want already and stop expecting every part of the game to cater to them exclusively. Drop pub queue, it's there for those people to use and not have to worry about logistics. Problem solved.

I don't find it a problem, but I do think that a destroyable reload structure would add more stategy to the game. Risk killing it but take more damage vrs let your enemy have reload capability.

Quote

No, it would make it better for YOU

I tend to use energy weapons as my preference. You're making an assumption because I don't agree with you that I'm doing it to improve my performance in the game (let me let you in on a secret, I'm terrible no matter what.) I just want the game to have more strategic options.

Edited by verybad, 13 December 2014 - 06:11 PM.