68 replies to this topic

[ShadowWolf Kell]

El Bandito, on 13 December 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Comstar did not beat the Clans in Tukayyd using ammo reliant mechs. Learn from history, young grasshoppers

And Clan Wolf didn't beat ComStar using them either.

[zortesh]

Yeah I'd say cw balances ammo reliant mechs.

I do fine with my ammo mechs, get to use backup weapons alot more... but i do fine.

Ammo mechs are flatout better till they run outta ammo, cw just gives an enviroment where that's actually likley to happen on a regular basis.

[Kilo 40]

verybad, on 13 December 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

I'd love for ammo reloads to be possible in the game but ONLY if the reload system can be blown up.

part f my wishes we could have something like the mech repair vehicles from MW3

[Hammerhai]

As expected the PGI fix ammo dependency QQ. Live with it, it adds a bit of challenge. I had 2 years of being derped by overpowered ammo dependent cannons which were not. Remember the days ballistics had 3x range?

Less nastily: It is PGI s intent to make ammo a manageable resource, and I hope they stick with that. One mans inefficient is another mans challenge, so OP, relax and give the game a try as intended.

[CycKath]

El Bandito, on 13 December 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Comstar did not beat the Clans in Tukayyd using ammo reliant mechs. Learn from history, young grasshoppers

Except ComStar did, just that Focht made sure he had supplies to keep his troops running for a month of combat, where the Clans outside of the Wolves only had enough for a couple of days.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

The simplest solution would be to add a consumable. 40k for an ammo reload that's usable once per match and then having to wait for it to be air dropped while also being destroyable. additionally, the base 40k version is only like 60% of your ammo stores with MC versions going to 80% and 100% respectively with an additional GXP skill that can increase the C-Bill version's effectiveness. Much like how Cool Shot and the Strike abilities work.

Alternatively, it can be used as a remote detonated mine if you shoot at it from range and blow it up. That way you can use it to replenish your stores or offensively in a pinch. With a nice flashy red beacon light on top kind of like how cap points are, it'd be quite situational and you'd seriously have to weigh taking it over a strike or cool shot.

Beyond that, take enough ammo and have alternative weapons, or be a good shot and don't waste ammo.

If you're good at surviving, I'd suggest more balanced builds. I was running dry on ammo in a lot of my drops today but I was only using 2 mechs for the most part and all of them use ammo weapons as additional firepower, not their primary. Mostly stuff to boost my alphas to absurd levels as a nice way to greeting that Dire Whale or King Crab that rounds a corner and wonders where their torso just went.

Edited by ShadowWolf Kell, 13 December 2014 - 03:23 AM.

[Attish]

With CW out players have to build mechs less ammo dependant or bring more backup weapons (or more canon-like). Personally i like ballistic weapons, but never got in fight without one ore more lasers.
BTW i never ejected in cw matches even i had run out of ammo. I coordinated my movement with my teammates and provided cover to them. Surly i died but in the heat of the fight most enemys didnt noticed that i hadnt shoot them for a minute just running on them

[jper4]

i'm not really fond of ejecting so when i run out of ammo i just make a bullrush at the enemy lines with my token backup lasers to make them shoot at me instead of someone else who is a more effective fighter at this point. sure i may only last from 1-30 seconds or so but that's 1-30 seconds the enemy is shooting/wasting ammo at a combat barely ready mech instead of a real threat.

[Bluefalcon13]

Estonniel, on 13 December 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

Use the Lasers untill you have to fight for real and use your ammo wisely and keep in mind that you WILL run out at a point that you will HAVE to fall back on your Lasers. or just eject for your next mech. but a mech without 20 dmg Laser power minimum simply will be worthless if out of ammo. deal with this and rework your builds with the mindset that your fighting 48 mechs and objective's. but dont forget you got 47 people with you that also can fight. so don't make your mech a Ammo Factory that simply blows up due to ammo explosions .

I agree with your first paragraph, but this is simply not a valid statement. As said before my drop-deck is sarna compliant(ammo starved) and consists of 3 summoners, and one mist lynx. The summoners wreck face when I play them, as most configs have energy based 'pokers' gear for long range. My stock Summoner prime has one erppc, and that only does 10 ppdmg, with an additional 5 splash DMG. It holds up well in both pug cw and group cw. As a matter of fact, none of the SARNA stock stock summoners except the D have your recommended 20dmg energy. Its more about staying in your effective range and making it work for you.

Edited by Bluefalcon13, 13 December 2014 - 05:43 AM.

[ShadowbaneX]

El Bandito, on 13 December 2014 - 01:09 AM, said:

Comstar did not beat the Clans in Tukayyd using ammo reliant mechs. Learn from history, young grasshoppers

The King Crab would like a word with you.

verybad, on 13 December 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

I'd love for ammo reloads to be possible in the game but ONLY if the reload system can be blown up.

A ammo reload consumable that you could call in would be very useful. I'd hope that they make it part of the other drops (Air/Arty) so that you have to choose between them. Sure it's a no brainer for the laser boat builds, coolshot & air strike, but if you want ammo you have to choose between a resupply and damage.

Another thought I had related to the first match I played. It was against a -GK- 12 man and they moved in, took down all the gates, regrouped and then just zerged the cannon. Didn't even stop to say hello, We managed to take out the first wave, but since the defenders weren't that well coordinated they took out 60% of the objective's health before we put it down. They quickly finished it off in the 2nd wave though.

One thing I'd like to sorta counter these rushes is an ammo dump where if you've got the time, like say, waiting between waves, you'd have the time to reload. It could be added as a secondary objective to be destroyed, but the point is to make the attackers choose an option other than bringing 60 Storm Crows and just zerging.

[Vassago Rain]

Limited ammo and armor replenishments are necessary, or this will turn into PPC warriors online.

[Sandpit]

Vassago Rain, on 13 December 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Limited ammo and armor replenishments are necessary, or this will turn into PPC warriors online.

Except that it hasn't

No unlimited ammo mode for people who can't build and play strategically .

Drop pub queue

[KraftySOT]

lol you babies. Ooooh no my ammos.

[happy mech]

no ammo replenishment or healing please

the consumable could do something like airstrike (~120 damage?), so 1 ton of ammo of your choice (load before match)

[MischiefSC]

The trick is that you DON'T BRING BACKUP WEAPONS.

When you Dragon 1N clicks dry are you seriously going to keep 6 tons of XL packing mech in the field with 2 MLs? You should be deploying those AC5s at 500-700m anyway.

Those lasers are just 60 wasted rounds of AC5 ammo. That's 300 more damage you could have/should have done.

When you click down on an empty ammo bin, your next button press should be 'K' for 8 seconds.

CW mechs are not the same as regular mechs. You build them like you build a specific tool. You will never be/should never be without your team to support you; if you're in a fire support mech you drop backup weapons and you focus on your fire support purpose. If you're packing Streaks you should probably go all Streaks and kill zerg rush lights.

You packing LRMs?

Take the smallest engine you can get away with and stack the rest with ammo and enough DHS to use the launchers effectively. Maybe a TAG in case your team doesn't have anyone up with a spotting loadout for you.

You a sniper?

If it's not a sniping range weapon, drop it for ammo or DHS.

You a brawler?

You don't need range over 400m and your back armor is 11 other mechs who'd better not be anywhere but right behind you. Also.... DHS. You're not going to be a hit and fade brawler in CW. You're going to be a facehumper and you're going to eat a LOT of fire.

If you're not a zerg/counter-zerg mech speed isn't always as important as more firepower and the DHS to continue to deploy it without having to fade and cool. Fade and cool just lets the enemy move into a better position when you come out. That 1 mech you were facing may be 5 now. You need to be able to push that 1 mech until he's dead, stomp on his corpse as you move on to your objective.

This ain't your mamas MW:O. Pug skillz are just bad habits here. You are an expendable tool in the service of your team and your faction; you have 4 different precise weapons to setup and deploy in that objective. There is no 'KDR', no 'best damage'. Just win and lose.

And it's mother ******* glorious.

[Zordicron]

It's almost like, you know, mechs from the cannon were usually balanced, or had one specific purpose when loaded with ammo dependency. Go to sarna, and look at all the "limited time on the battlefield" language on ammo dependant mechs, or the opposite: "allowing the mech to last longer away from resupply or behind enemy lines".

I already built most of my loadouts assuming I would be the last one alive and charged with killing the entire enemy team in every match. I do have a few that are designed to have an expiration date, like that reward Centurian we got with no CT laser mounts, but most are equiped with multiple systems and ranges to use them.

It is ******* AWESOME that we have tonnage limits on the drop decks, have to consider ammo counts etc on loadouts, speed and durability considerations, basically, we have to craft up loadouts to cater to the longevity we expect on the field, and role we want to fill as nearly 50 mechs per side duke it out.

IMO, the CW mode fixes a SHITLOAD more then it breaks in this game, if we could get matches going a lot faster, it would completely obsolete the old game modes. All the battletech goodies that got ignored in the old modes make the game less interesting. I am glad a lot of those same things made an appearance for CW.

Time to drop a LRM launcher or a guass rifle and put a LL on your mech for back up. Otherwise, stick with the old modes of march and bash for 5 minutes at a time.

[Zordicron]

MischiefSC, on 13 December 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

The trick is that you DON'T BRING BACKUP WEAPONS.

When you Dragon 1N clicks dry are you seriously going to keep 6 tons of XL packing mech in the field with 2 MLs? You should be deploying those AC5s at 500-700m anyway.

Those lasers are just 60 wasted rounds of AC5 ammo. That's 300 more damage you could have/should have done.

When you click down on an empty ammo bin, your next button press should be 'K' for 8 seconds.

CW mechs are not the same as regular mechs. You build them like you build a specific tool. You will never be/should never be without your team to support you; if you're in a fire support mech you drop backup weapons and you focus on your fire support purpose. If you're packing Streaks you should probably go all Streaks and kill zerg rush lights.

You packing LRMs?

Take the smallest engine you can get away with and stack the rest with ammo and enough DHS to use the launchers effectively. Maybe a TAG in case your team doesn't have anyone up with a spotting loadout for you.

You a sniper?

If it's not a sniping range weapon, drop it for ammo or DHS.

You a brawler?

You don't need range over 400m and your back armor is 11 other mechs who'd better not be anywhere but right behind you. Also.... DHS. You're not going to be a hit and fade brawler in CW. You're going to be a facehumper and you're going to eat a LOT of fire.

If you're not a zerg/counter-zerg mech speed isn't always as important as more firepower and the DHS to continue to deploy it without having to fade and cool. Fade and cool just lets the enemy move into a better position when you come out. That 1 mech you were facing may be 5 now. You need to be able to push that 1 mech until he's dead, stomp on his corpse as you move on to your objective.

This ain't your mamas MW:O. Pug skillz are just bad habits here. You are an expendable tool in the service of your team and your faction; you have 4 different precise weapons to setup and deploy in that objective. There is no 'KDR', no 'best damage'. Just win and lose.

And it's mother ******* glorious.

Your method for CW drops is the antithesis of battletech. You know, where mechs were rare and crazy expensive, and retreating to save them for another battle was usually a very good strategy.

What you describe is the poster child for adding rearm and reload back into this game for CW.

[R Razor]

Yoseful Mallad, on 12 December 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

its part of war. You run out of ammo. You have to make the best of it.

Actually it's freaking GREAT...........no more spam the button online, now you have to actually think before you shoot and make your shots count..........probably one of the best side effects to come out of CW to date.

[Sandpit]

R Razor, on 13 December 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

Actually it's freaking GREAT...........no more spam the button online, now you have to actually think before you shoot and make your shots count..........probably one of the best side effects to come out of CW to date.

agreed
PGI seems like they're sticking to their guns as well and judging by all the "old timers" coming out of the woodworks and giving positive feedback, MWO may jsut be back on track to be a huge game again.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

they doubled armor, where is my doubled ammo then?