118 replies to this topic

[Melissia]

I don't mind respawns, but I don't think they're that appropriate.

[Melissia]

Bloody, on 22 November 2011 - 10:13 PM, said:

no such thing as griefing in a pvp game. You are there to kill them and they are there to kill you. Your choices are kill them, get killed and lost everything or avoid them.

You're only considering the actions of the enemy.... most griefing is done by teammates, not by the enemy. Such as in TF2, setting up a teleporter in an area that causes anyone who goes through it to get stuck in terrain/get stuck in an infinite teleport loop. Or in any game with flashbangs... using the flashbangs on your own team just to annoy them.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think MWO *should not* have respawns because that encourages suicide runs. How can you return to the battlefield if you just blatantly committed suicide? Where did that new Mech come from? How did you get your pilot back to a hanger to hop inside a new vehicle?

[SMDMadCow]

Prosperity Park, on 25 November 2011 - 09:23 AM, said:

I think MWO *should not* have respawns because that encourages suicide runs. How can you return to the battlefield if you just blatantly committed suicide? Where did that new Mech come from? How did you get your pilot back to a hanger to hop inside a new vehicle?

Agreed, respawns really have no place. I don't hate them, they simply don't belong but the poll choices don't reflect that.

[KingCobra]

Im sorry but i dont see a norespawn game here the kids would cry to the DEVS so bad even if they attemted to do a norepawn to start out this new game in MWO it would fail.I think the key would be to have respawn battlezones the kids could go into and die all they want in there noob mechs=light,ect,starter mechs that have some impact on the MWO world but in a limited terratorial way.Then have harder norespawn matches to determine sector control of planets ,ect.
This way all will be happy on a respawn & norespawn aspect of the game also ingame tournaments would be good in 1v1-25v25 for respawn & norespawn for prizes a and glory.

[Orzorn]

Well, it depends on game mode (and the poll options are ridiculously polarized and biased, as there is no option to simply say "I like respawns"). A game of King of the Hill or Capture the Flag (assuming those were in the game, or an equivalent) would need to have respawns, but a team deathmatch would probably feel more right with no respawns.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I don't see the need for respawns at all in any gametype. CTF doesn't need respawns because you have to balance capturing the flag with staying alive. King of the hill with no respawns will force you to choose between holding your ground and staying alive. Deathmatch, well duh. Respawns are only good for very long, drawn-out matches with 10 or more players where the point is to rack up as many kills as possible before time runs out. That's not Mechwarrior, that's Halo or Modern Warfare.

One of the biggest points in the Battletech canon is the conservation of resources. Remember why LosTech became lost in the first place? Because of military commanders who think like respawn-proponents: people who hold tight to the false concept of infinite resources.

[Slender Man]

I like both kinds but id also like to play respawn optionally and keep my blood pressure lower.

Why is everyone assuming you can't have a Deathmatch with respawn be an option. There might be people just wanting to practise without having to lose their mech, I know I would want to. However I also want salvage which is why i would want a non respawn mode.

It's not like you can't have both...

To go into a non-respawn with salvage is something I want to be able to do after I'm confident. A co-op mode where i can just destroy some Ai bots and grab some salvage would be awesome but I know how complicated AI can be.

I agree with what everyone is saying I just don't think you should be limited to one type of game mode. The main one should be without respawning

[Tierloc]

You should have multiple types of battle scenarios that include games with different types of respawn, trying to peg against the other is short sighted.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Personally, I think the best solution to respawns is to make them a server-side option. In MW4, the host of the server had the option to allow respawns or to disallow respawns, giving the choice between respawns and no respawns to the players, and it worked great. It allowed those who wanted respawns to have them, and those who didn't want respawns to not have them, and those like me who liked playing with both to have our cake and eat it, too. } ; = 8 )


Ideally, in my opinion, there would be the persistent-world battles where there was no respawn - if you die, you die for the round (though an option to survive the destruction of your mech and the ability to hump it back to a mech bay, if any is around, to grab another mech would be cool), with penalties incurred for damage to your equipment, salvage costs, etc. Maybe even losing the mech if your team lost the round and you weren't able to recover the salvage, or if it was sufficiently damaged.
Then there would also be non-persistent 'quick matches' or whatever-you-want-to-call-them, perhaps player/clan-hosted, where you could have teams get together in much the same way as MW4 in 'unranked' battles that had respawns (or not, depending on the server settings).

This would give players a persistent world to play in, with persistent consequences, while also allowing them to have customizable quick matches or what-have-you without the ranked/persistent consequences, etc.

[Melissia]

Prosperity Park, on 25 November 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

CTF

Ugh, I hope not. I haven't played a single game that has done CTF well since Quake 4/Unreal 2..

CTF does not work for non-fragfests...

Edited by Melissia, 25 November 2011 - 01:04 PM.

[ice trey]

The problem is that, especially in a game like this one, it heavily changes the dynamic.

I mean, if you're respawning all the time, then issues like ammo become negligible. Why conserve ammo or even bother bringing ammo if you are just going to run into the meat grinder, do as much damage as possible before you die, and respawn?

Likewise, the "Starting with a fresh mech" respawning is one of the reasons that coolant became so heavily abused - Why worry about heat concerns when you could just mash the "F" button after letting off a Clan LL Alpha Strike in order to avoid that shut-down?

If we get rid of respawn, I think we'll be more likely to rely on tactics and play a bit more cautiously. At least - until every other 'mech on a team is destroyed or an objective eliminated.

[Melissia]

How about a bit of inspiration from Homefront?

Their style of game play basically did best two of three rounds, with objectives moving up and down the map as each round was won. In this case, at the beginning of each round, 'mechs would be replaced or repaired/rearmed, with points taken away from those who had to get their 'mechs replaced, and the winners would either move on to the next objective, or defend the one they just won, depending on the map.

[Blackfire1]

If there is a long LoL style match. I don't think "respawn" should be an option. But if the pilot ejected you can pick a new mech from your garage to rejoin.

[alVolVloLy]

There should be a way to play both ways, maybe have no respawn happen out in "the world" and have pickup challenges/matches happen as some sort of "arena/challenge" match that allows respawn (or other game types/styles).

[FrAvatar]

Blackfire1, on 25 November 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

If there is a long LoL style match. I don't think "respawn" should be an option. But if the pilot ejected you can pick a new mech from your garage to rejoin.

I like this idea. If you have a respawn option it should be from available Mech from your (or Clan) garage. but only if you successfully eject in time. And only after an amount of time has gone by. (not instant). If you don't eject in time you can't respawn for that match. also you shouldn't be able to respawn with the same mech that got disabled/destroyed in that match.

Edited by FrAvatar, 25 November 2011 - 05:40 PM.

[Blackfire1]

The thing you have to consider from a gameplay aspect is how long the matches will last. What gameplay rule set the match is attached with. And general stat crunching via Maximum drop weight per player/lance/star/company. LoL is a great example. You have two sets of game types now. The standard 30-60 minute games and Dominion, the capture and hold 10-20 minutes ones. Obviously the shorter game has shorter respawn where the longer game not only has a longer respawn but also travel distance.
Respawning as a whole I would disagree with in most instances. (Unless its a respawn at the end of a round)

However giving say a player the option of bringing in two lights, 1x light 1x Medium, instead of a single Assault or Heavy would make for an interesting game. Which would win? The team on 5 assault and no new mechs to bring to the field or the team of 5 with 2 light/medium mechs each? The light mechs get one or two shotted in an alpha strike but have a leg up on the assault in everything besides armor and damage. In the end its all about unit variety.

I'd pay money to see that fight.

Should there be some sort of "respawn" in the middle of Longer 20-50 minute matches? Yes.
A) Noone likes to wait around.
It makes for a boring game without it.
C) It could very well be implimented with the wait timer being mid battle salvage & rescue. OR make it so your teams light mech has to play pick me up. Giving them points/xp/credits for doing so in exchange for bringing back a team mate. Think like catching a ball in Dodge ball. You put yourself in the line of fire for the slim chance of bringing back a comrade.

Heck you could even add the idea of mid mission mobile HQ/depot. Each teams base has different buildings that give different advantages. Detroy the hanger and its add +15 secounds to respawn/rearm. Detroy the communications relay and your team loses battlefield intel. This base would be defended enough a light mech or three couldn't take it out but a combo of a light and two mediums could given time.

I need to write these down. :3
One thing I would advise against is fairly obvious. That bringing multiple loadouts on the same mech and allowing changes mid match. Everything needs to be done in the "lobby" before the match starts.

Edited by Blackfire1, 26 November 2011 - 12:59 AM.

[Melissia]

The devs stated that matches average 20 minutes. So that's a long time not to respawn if something goes awry early.

If you can't respawn, then it should let you leave early without penalty (delivering your reward later), so you can go have your 'mech repaired/rearmed and then get back in to a different fight. Don't make people wait 10-20 minutes between fights. That's stupid, and also stupid.

Edited by Melissia, 26 November 2011 - 04:05 AM.

[Black Sunder]

Melissia, on 26 November 2011 - 04:04 AM, said:

The devs stated that matches average 20 minutes. So that's a long time not to respawn if something goes awry early.

If you can't respawn, then it should let you leave early without penalty (delivering your reward later), so you can go have your 'mech repaired/rearmed and then get back in to a different fight. Don't make people wait 10-20 minutes between fights. That's stupid, and also stupid.

You're assuming you only have the one mech.

[Melissia]

No, I'm assuming that there will be situations where you will have only one 'mech.

If you can never run out of 'mechs, IE, all destroyed 'mechs are replaced, that's fine with me. But if there's even a remote possibility that you will have to wait twenty minutes between matches, or even five or ten minutes between matches, then the game has implemented a crap design choice that will push new players away, as they have their 'mechs taken from them and they're punished for being new even more than being new already hurts them in terms of skill.

Veteran players will always have an advantage over newbies, but you shouldn't punish newbies for it.

Edited by Melissia, 26 November 2011 - 06:17 AM.