53 replies to this topic

[BladeXXL]

Same shi++, different day! New Thread - new QQ!

During the weekend I did both: solo-pugging and premades (up to 12 - IS only).
Playing 12 it was quite easy to defend... even harder to attack, but still fine - also against other premades (excluding lords -.-).
With premades below 6 it was almost the same like pugging.
I also had some matches as PUG where we bashed a 12 premade group in attack-mode ... BUT only IS vs IS.
Attacking against Clans ended mostly with loss - also defending was not that easy because the clans are fast and can just push your cannon if they are a bit organized.

What I want to say... there is more balancing needed for Clan vs IS and for Attack vs Defend.
But I have my fun ... and my unit too.
The onyl thing I hate right now is the waiting-time!

Edited by BladeXXL, 15 December 2014 - 12:34 AM.

[Karl Marlow]

Pockets, on 14 December 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

I just had a super-organised PUG counter-attack game, it was lovely. There were 4-5 of us being chatty and the rest went along with the plan and pushed at the right time. Great fun.

Splitting people out into a different queue isn't a good solution; it makes things even worse for the people who are playing solo but trying to herd cats and play as a team. Improving the method of communication is what it would take.

Being chatty would help in the Public queues as well. The main difference is in CW maps you have more time to talk and plan before the assault. Assaults rarely come quickly when on defence and you pretty much choose your moment when attacking. You can discuss things in chat without having to worry as much about mechs being in your face inside a minute.

Because CW operates at a slower pace you can talk to each other more. There is even more time before the match to talk to each other. MGA was getting in the habit of using the pre match timer to just get people on our TS.who were willing. There is alot of time to get things together in the invasion mode. About the only thing a premade can do that a PUG team can't is sync up their mech loadouts which isn't critical unless your plan calls for it.

[Telmasa]

The solution to solo-puggers in CW is the Solaris Arena.

[ShadowSpirit]

Please for the love of god do not implement ELO for CW. This is about winning and dominating the map. Not about evening the odds.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Ace Selin, on 14 December 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Russ stated CW is for 12 man groups, so guess all US solo PUGs should leave, take our disposable income elsewhere, find a new game?

Oh stop this.

What nasty hyperbole.

It was stated the game was designed around 12 man groups, or groups period who have been working to have something more than random skirmishes. It takes a lot to keep a team together so just let it go.

[Cow And Chicken]

I think the ****** lore is the major issue with this game that needs to be trashed.

Games for tryhard elites with stupid attitudes like:
"Or quit whining and take the beating that a Clan on Inner Sphere fight is meant to be."

Will fail. Terribly. Look at Everquest vs WoW for one.

If WOW would not be balanced no one would be playing the game. (I know wow is not perfect tho)

Following a stupid plan where one side is superior to another is bound to make all games fail.
It dosen't matter what game it is. If it has good potential or not. If it's not balanced it will fail.

CW has alot of fun. I loved seeing a new game modes and it felt awesome for a day. Then balance or
"lack there of" sinks in, and it gets, meehh.

This game has repetetive gameplay of 7 maps circling and adding a new mode for the ELITE cutting
most of the playerbase off will kill games like this in the end.

Imagine eating the same food every meal for 4 years (as some of you have). Dosen't matter the food.
You will start hating it fast!

Regards,
C&C

[ShadowbaneX]

Cow And Chicken, on 15 December 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

Following a stupid plan where one side is superior to another is bound to make all games fail.
It dosen't matter what game it is. If it has good potential or not. If it's not balanced it will fail.

Quantity vs. Quality. Red Orchestra (WW2 Eastern Front game) wasn't all that balanced. The Germans had better equipment for the most part, but was somewhat balanced by the Russians have more in the terms of numbers. Granted, it didn't always work. Sometimes you'd get bogged down and it would be a half-hour long slaughter, but CW could be set up to give the IS more in numbers, a 5-mech drop dec for instance. This would counter some of the benefits of the clan tech...and could even allow for a bit of bidding down of forces (taking fewer mechs) for better rewards.

Some will argue that things are balanced, well, when quirks come in for the clans things are going to get skewed again, or perhaps some of the nerfs could be removed or additional buffs added.

Thing is, there are solutions without making everything identical. Another WW2 game, Day of Defeat: Source made both sides almost exactly balanced...and it sucked horribly.

Third option is to bring up StarCraft, but I'm already late and need to get to work.

[Jetfire]

Ace Selin, on 14 December 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Russ stated CW is for 12 man groups, so guess all US solo PUGs should leave, take our disposable income elsewhere, find a new game?

Or Rally the troops and coordinate. I won a pug VS premade clan counter attack yesterday. It was just barely a win, but it was a win. If you get bad pugs... well that always leads to the same place.

[STEF_]

Heisenbug, on 14 December 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

Attacking requires coordination, which pug's frequently lack (<-understatement).

I'm not sure what the solution to this would be

VOIP, maybe... so the team can coordinate.

Ace Selin, on 14 December 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Russ stated CW is for 12 man groups, so guess all US solo PUGs should leave, take our disposable income elsewhere, find a new game?

and why don't you leave instead?
I'm quite sure Russ would be happy if half (or more) of the player base would leave. Right?
That's said I'm sure that a lot of pugs have stats better than yours...

[LordKnightFandragon]

Yeah, the only battles I will now join are "X Needs defenders", attacks? 0.....that way I KNOW im on Defense.....and I will pick fights not against Lords or CGB...FRR is easy pickins so far lol....both fights against them have been pretty hefty defeats on the part of FRR....48-27 and 48-17......


The CW Gamemode needs alot of balancing work beyond just tweaking gate and gun health numbers...entire map redesigns are in order.....there needs to be more then 1 approach, and on Borreal Vault, there is only 1 approach...

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 15 December 2014 - 06:28 AM.

[Karamarka]

Ace Selin, on 14 December 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

Russ stated CW is for 12 man groups, so guess all US solo PUGs should leave, take our disposable income elsewhere, find a new game?

I play pug and i don't care

last thing i want is when i do join a unit or group i am waiting for 30 minutes for 1 game just because i want to play with friends cause people thought groups shouldn't play with pugs.

[ContingencyPlan]

Pug vs. Premade and Clan vs. IS are 2 completely different issues that should be discussed separately.

The main issue about Clan vs. IS is the specific clan drop deck combination of Stormcrow + Timberwolf/Hellbringer. An organized team fielding 12 people EACH fielding this exact drop deck cannot be stopped by IS (even if you are similarly organized) because you HAVE to one-up them on tonnage to be able to match their range + firepower. Due to tonnage limitations this means only having one real wave of mechs that can stand up to their assault/defense, and after that wave is exhausted, you've got a hodgepodge mix of mediums + lights while they have 3 more waves ready to come at you of that same exact mech combination. IS needs to be allowed a tonnage or numbers advantage vs. clans in order for this to be balanced (in the lore, clans deliberately fought outnumbered because they knew their weapons were far superior and due to their sense of honor they wanted a "fair fight"). Can an organized IS team beat an organized clan team? It depends on what clanners are fielding. The ones who make sacrifices elsewhere in their drop deck because they feel like they HAVE to bring an assault mech are not too difficult to beat with a well organized team (admittedly this is because of how gimped clan light mechs are in their ability to perform as lights rather than lightly armored mediums). But the Stormcrow + Timberwolf/Hellbringer combo? Unbeatable when properly organized.

Now, PUG vs. Premade is only an issue because players choose to allow it to become one. CW was designed almost exclusively for people who are both a) very much into the game's lore/backstory, and part of highly competitive groups. If both of these don't apply to you, you aren't the target audience of this particular gamemode and need to accept that. The only problem is that the game doesn't currently have the playerbase for this mode to be what it should be in terms of neverending, constant, organized matches, so something HAS to be done to cater to PUGs out of necessity.

[Kyrs]

May issue is more with the loadout the the pug bring in.

When defending the clan-buster principal can work pretty well.
Clan buster weapons: Gauss, Erppc, Erlarge.
altho it recommended to use standard engin and have a close range weapon to counter light rush.
example:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f251a0d326aac04

Main issue with pug attacking is there loadout. Speed (70kph minium)and armor is more important that having all big guns. After that is just matter of schooling when you attack.
example:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9b4e6dbfa45eb74

Note: schooling: if a stupid fish can do it, I don't see why a pug couldn't do it.

Edited by Kyrs, 15 December 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[Davegt27]

One solution is to give the unit commander the option to delay the drop

Wait don't have a heat attack

I have a headset and mic and I have team speak loaded
I just need to know where you are at and I can join you on com

And it would take a few min
Sometime they type the link in the chat but you know how that is it appears for a second and is gone
Without enough time to even copy it down

Anyone have any other solutions