99 replies to this topic

[AlphaToaster]

Chagatay, on 15 December 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

eh, like I said on another thread put in a slow autorepair function when not in combat/not taking damage for X secs. Still can Zerg rush but you need to do it in one go. Makes it still a legimate tactic but you take great risk in trying it.

Could even make it so rather than an auto repair, there's an area around it like a capture zone where defenders can stand in it to trigger the repairs as long as the cannon is not engaged.

[Menetius]

The Orbital cannon already auto-repairs a limited amount if un-damaged for a certain amount of time. It restores about 10-15% condition.

Edited by Menetius, 15 December 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Felix7007]

Let me get this strait. Reduce the incentive to rush by increasing the incentive to attack the opposing team by cutting their forces in half.

That will not work for reasons smarter individuals would hopefully understand and not implement.

[pwnface]

I seriously can't believe the amount of QQ there is on the forums about light zerg rushes. This tactic is 100% counterable by the defending team. Our unit has used the light zerg rush to defeat enemy teams many times, we've also been stopped twice by teams who were actually prepared for the possibility of a light rush. No team has successfully used the light mech zerg tactic against our unit. It isn't that difficult to scout the gates and see a wave of light mechs running at your base.

Let me give you guys some really easy ways to beat a light mech zerg rush:
1) Bring your own 12 light mech first wave. This lets you scout and react quickly. If they decide to rush, you can easily keep up with them and leg them as they charge in. Don't bother finishing off legged lights as your turrets will easily kill them once they are legged. The enemy team will have at most 2-3 light mechs actually make it to your orbital cannon where you can easily finish them off before they get more than 25% damage on your cannon.

2) Scout the gates with light mechs and keep a few heavy and assault mechs by your base until they have been properly scouted. The reason light mech rushes are successful are because the defending team moves their slower mechs away from the orbital cannon and can't make it back in time to stop the light mechs. Keeping them within range of the orbital cannon until you are sure there isn't a light zerg coming in will block the light mech zerg rush completely.

3) Can't aim? No problem, bring a lance of anti-light mediums running streaks! Anti-light mediums should be fast enough to move quickly from the gate to the base generator, chasing and maiming light mechs the entire way.

Now you know how to beat the light mech zerg rush. Please stop QQing about it on the forums and begging PGI to fix something that you can EASILY defeat if you just use your brain for a minute.

[Felix7007]

You guys are forgetting the root cause of the problem. The maps are made to where the only tactic is to rush. There is no other choice as long as the maps stay the same.

[Revis Volek]

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

Seriously, there's nothing smart about taking a bunch of short-ranged weaponry that makes it so four mechs can stop a whole team zerg rush. Your "tactic" is based on the cool image of these four mechs cutting down charging players with shotgun type weaponry, but that's just not how this game works.



There's nothing mindless about a well-executed omega push, and even in team-vs-team play there is literally no way to stop an attacker that is focused on the cannon.

Ever tried legging? Can't run for the cannon if you are legged....

I have not lost one yet due to "Zerg Rush" but I have won many this way.

[Menetius]

Imagine the nightmare of a 12-man Spider-rush pre-hitbox-fix...

-Shudder.-

[pwnface]

Felix7007, on 15 December 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

You guys are forgetting the root cause of the problem. The maps are made to where the only tactic is to rush. There is no other choice as long as the maps stay the same.

This is blatantly untrue.

You can trade at range until the defending team has less pilots than you before making a push for the base. If your team has better snipers you can cut them down to 8 pilots before pushing in.

You can fight your way in killing turrets as you go. This doesn't work much of the time because players focus too much on trying to kill enemy mechs that aren't going to respawn anyway instead of making progress on base defenses which will not respawn.

The major problem is that most players try to mix the two strategies which leads to failure. You can't half ass focusing on base defenses and pushing or picking off enemy mechs.

[Motroid]

Mystere, on 14 December 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

I have lost to a zerg rush only twice so far, and the first was because the rest of my PUG team decided it was safer to group up away from the cannon.

There was only so much killing I can do in a lightly armed Mist Lynx.

If cannon is down on health it is better to group up away from objective. Never defend AT the cannon. Intercept early and leg everyone you see is the spirit when defending "zerg rushes".
My suggestion would be to double hitpoints on all objectives, gate generators and orbital cannon. Maybe let them replenish hitpoints over time. And fix the friggin' hitreg.

[pwnface]

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

Seriously, there's nothing smart about taking a bunch of short-ranged weaponry that makes it so four mechs can stop a whole team zerg rush. Your "tactic" is based on the cool image of these four mechs cutting down charging players with shotgun type weaponry, but that's just not how this game works.

Why do you need to bring short range weaponry? 2xGauss builds or PPC/Gauss builds are fantastic for killing light mechs quickly. DRG-1N dakka can shred light mechs pretty quickly as well. These are all mid-long range options that are devastating to light mechs at close range.

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

There's nothing mindless about a well-executed omega push, and even in team-vs-team play there is literally no way to stop an attacker that is focused on the cannon.

While I agree a good push on omega takes quite a bit of coordination, any push on the orbital cannon CAN be stopped if you defend correctly. Try legging mechs to slow them down instead of just spraying lasers all over their face. Base turrets and dropships are very potent tools for defense and help immensely in finishing off disabled or damaged attacking mechs.

[Appogee]

If we could just stick an Urban Mech down its barrel, the cannon would self-destruct when fired.

Edited by Appogee, 15 December 2014 - 11:57 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Khobai, on 14 December 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

IMO gate generators should repair and close again after a certain number of minutes

Right now destroying gates just feels like a formality and the gates dont actually do anything. when has an attacker ever failed to open a gate? the gates are pointless and do nothing. they might as well not exist.

If the gate generators slowly repaired and closed again every few minutes it would at least slow down the attackers.

Likewise the cannon generator should slowly repair. That way the attackers have to kill the cannon all at once and cant just send suicide wave after suicide wave to take it out.

And add a Top and Side covers to the Generator to prevent Long range side sniping and Arty drops. You wan the generator down, stand directly in front of it. No tearing into it from 500m out...

The Genny's should have repair crews on site. When not under direct attack, the crews regen Hit points (repair) on the Genny at 50% speed of that needed to destroy it.

[Killstorm999999]

Almond Brown, on 15 December 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

And add a Top and Side covers to the Generator to prevent Long range side sniping and Arty drops. You wan the generator down, stand directly in front of it. No tearing into it from 500m out...

The Genny's should have repair crews on site. When not under direct attack, the crews regen Hit points (repair) on the Genny at 50% speed of that needed to destroy it.

The repair feature I think sounds pretty good. Perhaps after 30 seconds from the last time it took damage it starts to repair, slowly at first but then more rapidly. This would encourage the enemy team to push and maintain a strong position at the cannon, cause otherwise it will repair in between zerg rushes.

And of course, something needs to be done to make attacking slightly easier if the zerg tactic will be eliminated. (as it should, because this is a mech fighting game)

[pwnface]

Zerg tactic is easily counterable and the game mode doesn't need to be adjusted to counter it. I am enjoying a game mode where the fulfilling the objective is actually a difficult and fun way of winning the match compared to the normal deathmatch gameplay that has existed for so long.

[Mystere]

Motroid, on 15 December 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

If cannon is down on health it is better to group up away from objective. Never defend AT the cannon. Intercept early and leg everyone you see is the spirit when defending "zerg rushes".
My suggestion would be to double hitpoints on all objectives, gate generators and orbital cannon. Maybe let them replenish hitpoints over time. And fix the friggin' hitreg.

The generator was in full health.

The problem was the team. They were somewhere else instead of where they should have been. They did not listen when told where the enemy rush was passing through until it was too late. They wanted to brawl.

You can't fix that, unfortunately.

[ContingencyPlan]

The zerg tactic should not be viable because it discourages actual combat. The game at its core, regardless of mode, is about combat. Not bypassing combat to go straight for a quick and easy win. That discourages engaging gameplay. It is a game and it supposed to be engaging. The problem is that given the current map layouts and the way the turrets/dropships work, odds are too significantly stacked against attackers. Attackers can win, but the level of precision and required to overcome even a relatively mediocre defense as a result of the map layout and turret/dropship mechanics is too disproportionate.

[AlmightyAeng]

Appogee, on 15 December 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

If we could just stick an Urban Mech down its barrel, the cannon would self-destruct when fired.

Or shoot an Urbie into the stars, beginning the cutest orbital reinsertion of all time.

[ContingencyPlan]

Mystere, on 15 December 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

The generator was in full health.

The problem was the team. They were somewhere else instead of where they should have been. They did not listen when told where the enemy rush was passing through until it was too late. They wanted to brawl.

You can't fix that, unfortunately.

Ultimately, stretching out the combat portion of the gameplay is what makes a game based on robot vs. robot combat is what makes it fun. People want to do that. Regardless of the objective, foregoing that single aspect takes away the fun as it essentially takes away the most engaging aspect. People want combat. And getting to the objective should mean having to fight a battle. Not avoiding one.

[pwnface]

The light zerg tactic should be viable because CW isn't meant to be a deathmatch game mode. People complaining about light mech zerg rushes is equivalent to complaining about light mechs capping on conquest. Actually it is even worse because in Dropship mode the actual objective for attacking teams is to destroy the orbital cannon whereas in conquest either team can win by destroying the enemy team rather than capping.

ContingencyPlan, on 15 December 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Ultimately, stretching out the combat portion of the gameplay is what makes a game based on robot vs. robot combat is what makes it fun. People want to do that. Regardless of the objective, foregoing that single aspect takes away the fun as it essentially takes away the most engaging aspect. People want combat. And getting to the objective should mean having to fight a battle. Not avoiding one.

The light mech zerg rush can be countered...

If the attacking team wants to focus on the cannon, the defending team can obliterate the first wave of enemy mechs. This forces the defensive team to fight the remainder of the match with less mechs than the defenders.

[AlmightyAeng]

Inb4 Joseph Mallan comments that a "good fight" is one where you overwhelm the enemy opposition with superior numbers taking minimal losses.

This isn't about dragging out the punches for 5 rounds...if you want to win, go for the knockout. Unless you wanna play a little rope-a-dope first to up the ante.