46 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Creovex, on 14 December 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

The problem is you keep dropping the same decs on Attack as you do Defend.... Using your same short/med range builds that do great on defend on attack is a complete rook mistake I see over and over and over...

A great addition to CW would be allowing for 2 drop decks
Defense
Attack
and to be able to know which mission you'll be doing so you know which deck to take.

[Arbatrix]

I'll have to agree that attacking clans on the snow map is difficult. The highest damage matches (2500+) I have played have all been on that map. Granted I take a deck that favors long-ranged weaponry for defense, I do see that a lot of players seem to enjoy charging straight up the middle of the paths instead of hugging the walls. We do have longer ranged weaponry than you Inner Sphere warriors, and knowing that, you should try to avoid giving us free shots at your mechs. This was from my most recent game where IS mechs didn't attempt to use any cover but rather tried to push straight through the middle.

[MischiefSC]

mark v92, on 14 December 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

o i take long range builds. problem is, before IS even reach the gate you get damaged from mechs standing near the objective. clans can shoot trough the mountain pass all the way to far behind the gates. only decent range IS has is erLL and gauss. but clans can pack even more of those without a double torso XL. all i see when fighint clans is erLL shooting trough the mountain pass on a cold map. thats a challange to fight.

forgot to add erppc. but clan has the same with 15 dmg

The rook mistake is fighting the clans at range at all. You don't peek-and-shoot with them. You stack up on F6 and have 10 people shooting 2 or 3 Clanners trying to get up on those little ridges on Boreal. You make them pay heavy to open the gate - then get out of the way.

Stack ECM too. It's not uncommon to see 6 or more Clanners with LRMs in every wave. Deny them locks. When they come thruogh the gate, hit them fast and hard right at the gate. You jam up the two guys in front (stand on their toes, literally, if need be) and then your team drops arty and LRMs on them. I had one match where we killed 10 Clanners all within 50 meters of the gate doing that.

When they get passed it you leg them. One leg, switch targets. Start at the front and work back. If they are making progress *stand right in their way*.

That's the one people just seem scared to do. You get right up in their grill. They are wide; they'll shoot each others arms off when you bunch them up. If they don't bunch up they'll get strung out and focused down.

Stopping Clanner pushes is easier than IS pushes. Where it falls apart is when teammates are unwilling to take damage or get killed. Go ahead and get shot down; the dropship that brings your new mech (right on top of where they're heading) is going to rain LL fire on them. There's no negative to it.

Play in their grill. Yes, have long range mechs to camp F6 ridge on and back up, raining fire on them as they try to approach but everything you bring needs to be able to stuff destruction right up in their face and you need to be willing to do it.

That and coordination. My team of pugs lost a match attacking Clanners on Sulfur - that's flat out the easiest match vs clanners you can play. It's hot and they have heat issues to begin with, they have few truly fast responders if you play the shell game well and you can rain BOOM on the generator without even having to get right up to it. Yet we failed because the team just flat out refused to follow the plan. They would go out and get seen, spoiling stealth approaches and sneaks. They would stop and trade shots with Clanners and not push through/past to the generator. The number of mediums and lights that cook along at 100+ and can just hump it past the Clanners and go for the gold and stop to trade fire with a Timber Wolf while they're in a Griffin just broke my heart.

When we lose to Clanners, 90% of the time it's more about what we did wrong than what they did right.

[Davegt27]

Victory! Against the Clans this my 4th and the first one that was an attack

I got a disco right as the music started to play so no screen shot (plus I was in shock since on the first wave my Victor lasted 4 trigger pulls then I was dead)


Just got #5 hard fought

#6 hard fought defense on the snow map

#7 win on the cold map but it was close

Edited by Davegt27, 20 December 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[Davegt27]

Victor for IS attackers on Liezen

[luxebo]

mark v92, on 14 December 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

defending against clan isnt that hard.

attacking the clan on the snow map on the other hand...

We were so so so close to a win.

Attacking besides zerg rush is very hard and with those three generators it's difficult. Our team almost blew the last orbital gun generator, was soooooo close!

I've honestly never defended against a Clan, only attack. I've never attacked another IS faction either, only defense.

[Davegt27]

I think I have done most of it except full 12 VS 12

But I have done 12 VS 11 and I or 12 vs 10 man and two of us

Attack was super hard no matter what but they have been doing that computer balancing thing so the matches are a lot closer

Defense on the sulfur map against the clans' was intense one guy typed he was shaking at the end
I was so emotionally drained I had to take a break

Of course a few times I ran into some very good Clan 12 man teams that beat us so fast it was shocking

[ShadowWolf Kell]

This particular fight was really close to going the other way. What turned it around was decimating the light rush and the attackers failing to push in significant numbers afterwards. It allowed some of us to blunt everything coming through the gate and kneecap lights trying to slip through with our brawlers.

In some cases, the IS has an easier time hitting mechs at the gates because of things like the quirked PPCs or Gauss. This is really critical since disarming a lot of Clan mechs can neuter them with minimal effort.

I'd also argue IS LRMs are much more effective but I see few using TAG or NARC which is essential to break through ECM.

[InspectorG]

MischiefSC, on 16 December 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

The rook mistake is fighting the clans at range at all. You don't peek-and-shoot with them. You stack up on F6 and have 10 people shooting 2 or 3 Clanners trying to get up on those little ridges on Boreal. You make them pay heavy to open the gate - then get out of the way.

Stack ECM too. It's not uncommon to see 6 or more Clanners with LRMs in every wave. Deny them locks. When they come thruogh the gate, hit them fast and hard right at the gate. You jam up the two guys in front (stand on their toes, literally, if need be) and then your team drops arty and LRMs on them. I had one match where we killed 10 Clanners all within 50 meters of the gate doing that.

When they get passed it you leg them. One leg, switch targets. Start at the front and work back. If they are making progress *stand right in their way*.

That's the one people just seem scared to do. You get right up in their grill. They are wide; they'll shoot each others arms off when you bunch them up. If they don't bunch up they'll get strung out and focused down.

Stopping Clanner pushes is easier than IS pushes. Where it falls apart is when teammates are unwilling to take damage or get killed. Go ahead and get shot down; the dropship that brings your new mech (right on top of where they're heading) is going to rain LL fire on them. There's no negative to it.

Play in their grill. Yes, have long range mechs to camp F6 ridge on and back up, raining fire on them as they try to approach but everything you bring needs to be able to stuff destruction right up in their face and you need to be willing to do it.

That and coordination. My team of pugs lost a match attacking Clanners on Sulfur - that's flat out the easiest match vs clanners you can play. It's hot and they have heat issues to begin with, they have few truly fast responders if you play the shell game well and you can rain BOOM on the generator without even having to get right up to it. Yet we failed because the team just flat out refused to follow the plan. They would go out and get seen, spoiling stealth approaches and sneaks. They would stop and trade shots with Clanners and not push through/past to the generator. The number of mediums and lights that cook along at 100+ and can just hump it past the Clanners and go for the gold and stop to trade fire with a Timber Wolf while they're in a Griffin just broke my heart.

When we lose to Clanners, 90% of the time it's more about what we did wrong than what they did right.

^This

My experiences as well.

Dont peek-a-boo Clansmen. You get in their pocket and mean mug them. You WILL GET HURT but they will overheat and them you get some free hits. C'mon, you get 4 mechs...

Arty, Air, hell even bring an LRM boat(HBK/Trenchbucket) to sit JUST behind the melee and throw rocks - none of off in the safe distance crap, wont work in CW. Up close and personal. You should have an accurate tally of just how many Clansmen are mouth breathers cuz you are right in their face. Give them a breath-mint if needed.

It falls apart when people get scareded. I love how morale plays in this it really separates the newbs/big-talkers from the vets.

[Brody319]

InspectorG, on 21 December 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

^This

My experiences as well.

Dont peek-a-boo Clansmen. You get in their pocket and mean mug them. You WILL GET HURT but they will overheat and them you get some free hits. C'mon, you get 4 mechs...

Arty, Air, hell even bring an LRM boat(HBK/Trenchbucket) to sit JUST behind the melee and throw rocks - none of off in the safe distance crap, wont work in CW. Up close and personal. You should have an accurate tally of just how many Clansmen are mouth breathers cuz you are right in their face. Give them a breath-mint if needed.

It falls apart when people get scareded. I love how morale plays in this it really separates the newbs/big-talkers from the vets.

nooo! don't bring a trenchbucket its terrible!

[WarMonkey14]

MischiefSC, on 16 December 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

That and coordination. My team of pugs lost a match attacking Clanners on Sulfur - that's flat out the easiest match vs clanners you can play. It's hot and they have heat issues to begin with, they have few truly fast responders if you play the shell game well and you can rain BOOM on the generator without even having to get right up to it. Yet we failed because the team just flat out refused to follow the plan. They would go out and get seen, spoiling stealth approaches and sneaks. They would stop and trade shots with Clanners and not push through/past to the generator. The number of mediums and lights that cook along at 100+ and can just hump it past the Clanners and go for the gold and stop to trade fire with a Timber Wolf while they're in a Griffin just broke my heart.

When we lose to Clanners, 90% of the time it's more about what we did wrong than what they did right.

as much as i agree with you here, i also must note that we dont bum rush the generators cuz its a really stupid gameplay mechanic. maybe its just me, but seeing my allies run past the enemy team shooting them to go kill the generator is sad. even though that's what wins games

[MischiefSC]

WarMonkey14, on 21 December 2014 - 03:09 PM, said:

as much as i agree with you here, i also must note that we dont bum rush the generators cuz its a really stupid gameplay mechanic. maybe its just me, but seeing my allies run past the enemy team shooting them to go kill the generator is sad. even though that's what wins games

Turn it into Skirmish and you get the same experience we had with 4mans in the 8v8 queue prior to Elo. You'll have 6+man teams endlessly and easily facerolling pug teams, then you'll have the escalation of 'biggest premade wins', followed by 'no pugs want to play'. It is exactly why we have Elo and split queues outside of CW.

Light zerg rushes alone don't win. Gotta plow the road and light zergs get cut down all the time now. It's coordination that wins.

[WarMonkey14]

MischiefSC, on 21 December 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

Turn it into Skirmish and you get the same experience we had with 4mans in the 8v8 queue prior to Elo. You'll have 6+man teams endlessly and easily facerolling pug teams, then you'll have the escalation of 'biggest premade wins', followed by 'no pugs want to play'. It is exactly why we have Elo and split queues outside of CW.

Light zerg rushes alone don't win. Gotta plow the road and light zergs get cut down all the time now. It's coordination that wins.

sorry i didnt mean that we needed it to be skirmishes, but something has to change. fortunately, there are many posts on how to make the gamemode better (map design, drop rates, etc).

mainly i feel that there's a lack of strategy to kill generators. its either kill generators or lose. killing enemy mechs means almost nothing due to the time limit and dropship rate unless you steamroll the other team. hell, the fact that killing mechs when attacking is being discouraged by some groups is not a good sign of design imo. i understand i shouldnt chase that light all over the map when i could kill the generator, but shooting that heavy that's murdering my team instead of the generator is a tactically sound decision

[MischiefSC]

WarMonkey14, on 21 December 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

sorry i didnt mean that we needed it to be skirmishes, but something has to change. fortunately, there are many posts on how to make the gamemode better (map design, drop rates, etc).

mainly i feel that there's a lack of strategy to kill generators. its either kill generators or lose. killing enemy mechs means almost nothing due to the time limit and dropship rate unless you steamroll the other team. hell, the fact that killing mechs when attacking is being discouraged by some groups is not a good sign of design imo. i understand i shouldnt chase that light all over the map when i could kill the generator, but shooting that heavy that's murdering my team instead of the generator is a tactically sound decision

Totally agree. Would love some new alternate objective game modes. Especially with moving objectives. A lot of suggestions already and we've got a new map coming in February, so let's see how it plays out.

[Cragger]

I just want to bring up one point that everyone is saying IS (Or Clan for that matter) needs to use a handful of specific mech chassis for CW in this game.

Is that really what you want to see in CW? No variety just the same mechs over and over? With as many chassis they have in the game I personally want to see each and every mech have its place on the field of battle. Every mech NEEDs to be viable in the CW or it's a failure in my eyes. Who ever played battletech a lance of all the same mechs? That gets boring fast.

[ShadowbaneX]

It would be nice to see something other than Stormcrow/Stormcrow/Stormcrow/Timberwolf

[Karl Marlow]

mark v92, on 14 December 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

defending against clan isnt that hard.

attacking the clan on the snow map on the other hand...

It's amazing how effective a splat cat is on defense when all the clan mechs just walk past you.

[Andi Nagasia]

clans arnt too hard to beat,
my No,vas arms are Gauss managements,
my DireWhale seems to give instant locks,
and everyone ignores my CuteFox,
really fun though,

[Davegt27]

Victory shot LOL

[Davegt27]

after 14 loses in a row I can report Victor against the clan on New Oslo