69 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Fix my Summoner first and then we'll talk about your Gargoyle.

[Vanguard836]

Widowmaker1981, on 15 December 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Yeah, see this: DWF-PRIME 14 slots free, no spare tonnage, not enough gauss ammo. with endo you could add 5 tons more ammo and stil have 2 free slots.

Thanks !

While it is only ammo I do share the concern for the Direwolf. It would either have to be excluded or something put in to tone down 4x gauss in such situation, not that I like the idea of buffing something by including another limiting messure.

[Ryokens leap]

I was farting around with a ultra5/ ultra2 and 2ermed. Kinda trolly but worked surprisingly well.

[FupDup]

Mister Blastman, on 15 December 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Fix my Summoner first and then we'll talk about your Gargoyle.

The Thor at least has agility and hoverjets. :\

(And not taking up an assault slot or using lots of dropship tonnage...)

Edited by FupDup, 15 December 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Ultimax]

Escef, on 14 December 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Yeah, dude, I fully expect they'll break canon and put endo steel on the Gargoyle... Did you even think before you answered?

They broke cannon and gave nearly every IS mech a variety of weapon performance increases.


Reduce heat quirks sound nice, but ultimately there is no substitute for raw tonnage if you ever want to use more than just lasers on any really viable build.

[Golden Vulf]

Risko Vinsheen, on 14 December 2014 - 07:39 PM, said:

I've been enjoying my Gargoyles so far in Community Warfare. Currently using an LBX-10 + 4 ERMed build in the A.

I do think it could use some nice quirks to help it out, though. It needs some maneuverability quirks to take advantage of it being a speedy Assault, and could probably use some energy heat reduction quirks. Even though it has 16 heat sinks stock it still runs hot if you're trying to keep up the DPS.

That's the kind of firepower my Timberwolf has after losing a side torso!

Honestly, the thing needs endo steel and energy quirks. The A especially needs ER PPC quirks and clan PPCs need a damage buff. We have fewer hard points to bring energy weapons, so that's why you only ever see Large Pulse Lasers.

[Vanguard836]

An alternative could be to allow the arms and torso the additional amount of armor equal to half a ton each via quirks, could provide additional tonnage for those who which to use it to remove armor OR simply extra armor to help survivability. Same could apply to the summoner without needing a change to the "as is" structure of the mechs.

[Mcgral18]

Johnny Z, on 15 December 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Anything the Gargoyle gets the Atlas get x2 and the Orion x3!!!

Hm...is the Orion better than the Garg?


Get Bishop in here. I think he's a fan of both.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 15 December 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

Hm...is the Orion better than the Garg?


Get Bishop in here. I think he's a fan of both.

The Orion would have more firepower (AC20+medlasers+SRMs) should be more than enough to keep up with a mech that has long laser vomit and can't cool down like the Timbergod that it gets referenced against.

When the best build you can put on a Gargoyle can be better served on a Hellbringer or Stormcrow, it's ggclose.

[kapusta11]

Since when Victor has 48 damage laser alpha?

[Mcgral18]

kapusta11, on 16 December 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

Since when Victor has 48 damage laser alpha?

It has UACs (or a single shot 20), Lazors AND SRMs.

It also has more than 20 tons of weapons. Nor does it need 16 DHS. It also has Endo, without the need of Ferro.


isXL is the downside. Might just be worth it in this case...but laserspam isn't weak. Just isn't sustainable. Victor wins short range. Potentially mid range...but that one is iffy.

Edited by Mcgral18, 16 December 2014 - 01:49 AM.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Mcgral18, on 15 December 2014 - 09:11 PM, said:

Hm...is the Orion better than the Garg?


Get Bishop in here. I think he's a fan of both.

Assuming my Orion Protector could get within brawling range, I'm pretty confident it could cut off half a Garg's firepower with a single alpha that's PP FLD.

3 MPLs, AC20 and 2xSRM4s hurt.

Alternatively, dual UAC5s and a PPC works too, more than one volley but a good range compromise.


To add insult to injury, the Garg I think has even lower slung arms than a Cataphract or Orion.


Another point and I just recently noticed this when I was fiddling with builds.... SRMs mounted in the arms have a convergence not unlike wing mounted MGs/cannons on WW2 planes. Beyond a certain point they spread outward and form an X pattern which means if you use them for added firepower, you have to get iwthin a certain range or missiles will miss unless you aim center mass. I've not seen that behavior with torso mounted SRMs.

[Jun Watarase]

Surprise surprise, a fast assault with insufficient pod space is underpowered.

It's like summoner all over again.

[SgtMagor]

wanna help the MOW out, heres the answer, maybe a partial one, I really would like jump jets on it but:

Gargoyle Conal Star Colonel Conal Ward used a custom configuration when he was commanding the 31st Wolf Solahma. Mounting a pair of ER PPCs in the right arm and a pair of Streak SRM-6 launchers in the left torso, the Gargoyle Conal could fight comfortably at long and short range. Each leg mounted a single A-Pod, and the center torso held an ECM Suite and a Light TAG unit for artillery spotting. BV (2.0) = 2,580[20

[LordBraxton]

I agree with the folks calling for agility quirks. I don't think it needs much though, Ive seen pulse gargoyles do scary things.

[DONTOR]

Blueduck, on 14 December 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Errm, no.

Victor can mount an Ac20 and have firepower to spare. Likewise it can put on two UAC5s and still boat lasers and missles.

Victor definitely has an edge in firepower.

There is no XL400 Victor that can take an AC20, Dragon Slayer has only 9 crit slots and is the only one capable of XL400. The rest are XL385.

[Deathlike]

SgtMagor, on 16 December 2014 - 05:47 AM, said:

wanna help the MOW out, heres the answer, maybe a partial one, I really would like jump jets on it but:

Gargoyle Conal Star Colonel Conal Ward used a custom configuration when he was commanding the 31st Wolf Solahma. Mounting a pair of ER PPCs in the right arm and a pair of Streak SRM-6 launchers in the left torso, the Gargoyle Conal could fight comfortably at long and short range. Each leg mounted a single A-Pod, and the center torso held an ECM Suite and a Light TAG unit for artillery spotting. BV (2.0) = 2,580[20

Torso weapons eh? Finally, an omnipod people would flock to.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Deathlike, on 16 December 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Torso weapons eh? Finally, an omnipod people would flock to.

If Omnipods worked like they're supposed to, this wouldn't even be a disucssion. But nooooooo.... PGI has to cherry pick which parts of lore they want to work with, and what they want to ignore. In the end, they completely failed and left out all the best parts of mech customization from previous games.

PGI reminds me of BioWare when it came to SWTOR. They copied from others and got some stuff right, but got pigheaded about other stuff and blew it... horribly. I notice now they're backtracking and finally admitting they goofed big time. Too little too late, however.

[Andi Nagasia]

well i had an idea about adding extra-Universal-HardPoints,
but only to an Omni-Mech Prime-Variants Side-Torsos,
you can see my Topic(which also includes Light-Fusion-Engines)
(Is Light-Fusion-Engines / Clan-Universal-Hardpoints!)
i feel this idea would help balance all lesser Clans,
and give InnerSphere more Engine Options,

[Deathlike]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 16 December 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

If Omnipods worked like they're supposed to, this wouldn't even be a disucssion. But nooooooo.... PGI has to cherry pick which parts of lore they want to work with, and what they want to ignore. In the end, they completely failed and left out all the best parts of mech customization from previous games.

PGI reminds me of BioWare when it came to SWTOR. They copied from others and got some stuff right, but got pigheaded about other stuff and blew it... horribly. I notice now they're backtracking and finally admitting they goofed big time. Too little too late, however.

Well, I'm up for writing a post on how the Gargoyle needs more omnipods (like they really need some).

There's no way in heck this mech can be a proper SRM brawler... to go with the ballistics. 20 tons is not enough.