19 replies to this topic

[Ryan220]

Im new to the game (10 days ish) and I prefer to think of myself as a Newb rather than a Noob, but yesterday I definately had a Noob moment. I normally run a Locust PB and a Stormcrow.

For a change of pace I took my freebie King Crab for a spin yesterday. I'd made a few minor changes to the load out and I read some posts on how to run an Assault mech.

I did the ground work, I felt prepared.....time to go and put it to the test.

I drop into Viridian Bog - my least favourite map.

The game starts and everyone goes CCW in the usual Conga style and Im quickly left behind, but its ok, Im in the mighty KGC.

So everyone trots off and whilst doing my best to catch up I get stuck on a tree stump or log or something. Whilst Im manoeuvreing to free myself I see two enemy mechs in the distance, moving to engage me.

I take a quick stock of the situation - Im stuck on a log, but Im too slow to manoeuvre anyway. My left flank is well protected by landmass and my team has gone to the right so my right side is safe.
Rather than mess about trying to free myself I'll take them head on and roll the damage by torso yawing.
I target the lead mech - I forget the type - and loose off an AC20. Im in thermal HUD and see the explosive plume. A hit!
So I then begin sending rounds down range as quick as my reload cycle allows.

The incoming damage starts and I start to roll the damage across my torso as best I can. After a several seconds Im beginning to question why everyone raves about AC20s. Ive sent round after round down range and the enemies are pummelling me into a pile of twisted steel.

One of my last actions before my untimely demise was to notice that the enemy had taken practically no damage at all and then it was over.

I took my KGC out in the training grounds after to try and determine what had gone wrong - I was suprised to see that beyond 400m the AC20 is pretty useless.

I can just imagine that those enemy mech pilots must have been laughing their socks off at the noob in the Crab that didnt factor in range and got pummelled to a pulp.

I'll not make that mistake again.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Yep, the AC20 is an in-your-face kind of weapon. Problem with using them on slow assaults is that you can't always force a close-range engagement. I put 4 AC5s on my now King Crab to give it a bit more range.

[Sarlic]

You do realise that you have two AC20s? And... Massive firepower I can only carry one on my D-DC.

Tip: stick with a ECM mech. Get up close and let the facehugging begin!

Edited by Sarlic, 15 December 2014 - 03:45 AM.

[Alek Ituin]

Use AC/10's if you want a little more range. You lose the quirks for the AC/20, but I find the AC/10 to be a dependable cannon even without quirks.

Pros:
You fire faster than a 25% RoF quirked AC/20 (AC/20- 3s CD w/ 25% RoF, AC/10- 2.5s CD stock)
Almost double the range (AC/20- 270/540m, AC/10- 450/900m)
Doubled ammo/ton (AC/20- 7rnd/t, AC/10- 15rnd/t)
Half the heat (AC/20- 6 heat, AC/10- 3 heat)
2 tons less weight (AC/20- 14t, AC/10- 12t)
3 slots smaller size (AC/20- 10 slots, AC/10- 7 slots)
A 300m/s faster projectile (AC/20- 650m/s, AC/10- 950m/s).

Cons:
Lose DPS (AC/20- 5 DPS, AC/10- 4 DPS)
Lower impulse (AC/20- 0.13, AC/10 - 0.06)
Lower single shot damage (obviously, 10 less damage per shot when in 270m optimal).

Just a suggestion.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 15 December 2014 - 04:08 AM.

[Mechteric]

Ryan220, on 15 December 2014 - 03:10 AM, said:

...Newb rather than a Noob..

There's a difference?

Alek Ituin, on 15 December 2014 - 04:06 AM, said:

Use AC/10's if you want a little more range. You lose the quirks for the AC/20, but I find the AC/10 to be a dependable cannon even without quirks.

The correct answer is Quad UAC/5's.... they're epic!

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 15 December 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[Escef]

At least you've learned something. Be a waste if you hadn't.

I'm not generally fond of slow assaults, but after I crammed a 325 engine into my KGC I'm starting to not mind. Still slow, but the close in firepower is nutty.

[Fut]

Escef, on 15 December 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

At least you've learned something. Be a waste if you hadn't.

So much of this!

Props to the OP for actually going over his Match, and trying to determine where he went wrong. Learning from our mistakes is the best way to improve.

[Red Plague]

I forget the dam range all the time .. i switch guns all the time and forget to look at the range....

[Widowmaker1981]

KGC is the only mech that can do the following (IS Side):

2x AC20 + backup weapons
4xUAC5
4xAC5 + backup weapons
2x Gauss + backup weapons

any build not using one of those is a bit of a waste imo, and could be done better on another chassis

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 15 December 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[Sarlic]

Fut, on 15 December 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

So much of this!

Props to the OP for actually going over his Match, and trying to determine where he went wrong. Learning from our mistakes is the best way to improve.

exactly.

Everyone was new once. When i first piloted my Atlas back in closed beta....Dont bother asking.

[Greenjulius]

I'd recommend 4xAC5 if you're new to assaults. It has great range, great damage, and will allow you to run 11 tons of ammo, a STD325 and a couple medium pulse lasers to back you up.

You can graduate to 4xUAC5 once you get good at using double fire mode. Maybe even try using Fire Control with macros to automate that double fire. I can make spit led around 30% faster than a 4xAC5 setup, even with jamming accounted for.

2xGauss+2xERLL or 2xPPC/ERPPC is a little more advanced and requires steady aim, but is very solid for a sniper setup.

2xAC20 is honestly one of the most advanced setups. It takes a lot of self control to not fire past effective engagement ranges. Almost as much to close the gap or sneak towards the enemy so you can take advantage of the high damage, and a lot of self control to avoid ghost heat. A lot of practice with 2xAC20 can make you a beast, but brawling is one of the more difficult sides of the game to master.

Edited by Greenjulius, 15 December 2014 - 08:04 AM.

[Rossario x Vampire]

RocketDog, on 15 December 2014 - 03:38 AM, said:

Yep, the AC20 is an in-your-face kind of weapon. Problem with using them on slow assaults is that you can't always force a close-range engagement.

I would disagree with this, cause knowlage of maps allow ya to wage an "In Your Face" combat in more than 100% situations. Actualy the cons of dual welding AC20 is that you need to combine it with same hight damage and same range weapons. Honestly I did once saw the KGC-0000 wit 2xAC20+4xSRM6... and the guy was managing to do -10 to enemy team. Yes, it's a pure brawler... but GRF-3N with 2xMPL's and 4xSRM6 or an MDD with 6xSRM6+4xMPL's are also pure brawlers wich tugs-out the 50% of team damage.

Be honest... those badged Crab-People in Random is one hell of a nubes.

[Fut]

Rossario x Vampire, on 15 December 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

I would disagree with this, cause knowlage of maps allow ya to wage an "In Your Face" combat in more than 100% situations.

Map knowledge is great, but it doesn't help with an enemy who is considerably faster than you are that doesn't let you dictate the engagement range - which I'm sure is what RocketDog was getting at.

Also, more than 100% situations, eh?
Interesting.

[Rossario x Vampire]

Fut, on 15 December 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

Map knowledge is great, but it doesn't help with an enemy who is considerably faster than you are that doesn't let you dictate the engagement range - which I'm sure is what RocketDog was getting at.

Also, more than 100% situations, eh?
Interesting.

Fast enemy is "kul starry bra" none of them can sustain an 90+ damage, and KGC-0000 Crabwler build can easy wage this to an enemy. Did you ever saw what happens to Raven or Fakingstarter when he catch an dual AC20 + 4xSRM6 broadside salvo? An Instant death is an answer.

Trust me cause I'm an Firestarter pilot, also.

Edited by Rossario x Vampire, 15 December 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Ovion]

I tend to favour LBX10s myself.
More range, less heat, less size/weight and can hit farther.
Damage equivalent to an AC10 if used right, with added bonuses too.

Plus, long range mech shotgun.

CapperDeluxe, on 15 December 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

There's a difference?

Oh yes.

A newb is a newbie.
Fresh faced and hungry to learn, they'll become the next generation of MechWarrior.
There's nothing wrong with being a newb, we all were once.

A noob only knows marginally more than a noob, but thinks they know everything, and as such are singularly unwilling to learn.
Generally obnoxious, they are hard to educate and bullheaded will insist they are right regardles, often feeling the need to tell others how they should be doing things, because it doesn't match what they believe.
Additionally, the noob almost never, if ever realises they are one, making them even harder to deal with.

It is an insult, and not something you particularly want to be.

[Lord Perversor]

Sarlic, on 15 December 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

exactly.

Everyone was new once. When i first piloted my Atlas back in closed beta....Dont bother asking.

I strapped a 100 STD because HEY MOAR GUNS!!! .... screw 18kph top speed!!!

[Ryan220]

Hello all.

Thank you for you replies/ advice etc.

Its much appreciated.

Ive been thinking about a 4 x AC5 / UAC5 build - I use a single C-UAC5 (and 3 MPLs) on my Stormcrow and have had very good results. It's range "feels" just about for me and I've found that not many pilots like to be on the receiving end of a double tapped salvo and tend to back off around a corner.

This behaviour raises an interesting thought about suppression/ area denial builds - something Ive been considering/ planning. Admitedly Im less than two weeks into the game and dont know if it would work in practice, but I could have some fun trying them out.


I must look into the macro as the jamming can be frustrating. A jam free, double tapping quad UAC macro would be very nice.

[Mcgral18]

Weapon ranges are an important thing to learn in this game. All weapons have a 2x optimal range, aside from the Gauss which is at 3x, and missiles which explode after their optimal range. Flamers also have 1x range, but it's hard to consider those weapons.

This maximum range is 2x optimal, so for an AC20 that has a 270M range, you will deal no damage at 540M, but half damage at 405M.
It's a linear decrease.

The same is true for all lasers and all but one ballistic (Gauss).


I tend to save ballistic ammo until at least 150% range, while with lasers I've got no issue with firing them at 95% range, unless heat becomes an issue due to not having ammo.

Edited by Mcgral18, 15 December 2014 - 02:37 PM.

[Ovion]

Actually.
There are 3 weapons with triple optimum max range.
All 3 do max damage up to optimum range, then scale to half damage at double optimum range, and then to 0 past triple range.
Gauss Rifle
Clan Gauss Rifle
LB 10-X AC

Additionally, the following weapons just have a Max Range, _{(rather than an Optimum Range + Double (or triple) Max Range)}:
All 3 do max damage up to optimum range, then no damage past that.
Flamer
Clan Flamer
All Missile based weapons (LRM, SRM, SSRM, C-LRM, C-SRM, C-SSRM)
_{The following while causing no damage, are still subject to this principle.}
Narc, Clan Narc, Tag, Clan Tag



Furthermore, against components with stripped armour, Weapons may cause Critical Hits.
A Crit will cause additional impacts against internal structure, equal to the damage of the initial hit.
The standard Crit Rates are:
1x Crit = 25%, 2x Crit = 14%, 3x Crit = 3%
Total Crit Chance = 42%
Additionally, the following weapons have increased crit rates:
Machine Guns, Clan Machine Guns:
1x Crit = 31%, 2x Crit = 17%, 3x Crit = 4%
Total Crit Chance = 52%

LBX ACs _{(per pellet)}, Clan LBX ACs _{(per pellet)} & Flamers:
1x Crit = 39%, 2x Crit = 22%, 3x Crit = 6%
Total Crit Chance = 67%

Edited by Ovion, 15 December 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[Brody319]

those laser hard points are really needed if you are running AC20s for long range damage.
Really if you wanna be effective at all ranges you should swap them both out for 4 UAC5s or even just 2 ac10s if you want.
If you aren't giving hugs those AC20s are pretty much just for show.