57 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

We should be projecting a united front as clans. Infighting is only going to cost us taking worlds. If we spend time attacking each other, we will not be taking planets of the IS and only the few worlds we already possess will stay in our possession.

So, even though worlds may be available to attack amongst ourselves, we should be focusing on common goals.

After last night, this will be an uphill battle to be sure. I am not sure anyone successfully took any worlds at all considering even the lords were not out gaining the IS success rates. We are outnumbered trothkin. The enemy possesses spies in our ranks who have tuned our weapons poorly, so we are at a general disadvantage for tech at this point. We need to coordinate together strongly to take these worlds.

Edited by Gyrok, 12 December 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[Noesis]

Gyrok, on 12 December 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

I am not sure anyone successfully took any worlds at all considering even the lords were not out gaining the IS success rates.

CGB took Susquehanna, I know since the Dark Born were included and active in the raids for this effort.

Also if you check the planetary information tabs you can see the ownership changes or effective defenses by reviewing their history.

Edited by Noesis, 12 December 2014 - 06:30 AM.

[Dark DeLaurel]

This always was going to be an uphill battle. With how things have been going on our Mechs for tuning and the quirk passes on the Inner Sphere Mechs, this just means we have to be more diligent in our battles.

Loadouts for our less desirable Mechs have to be found and tuned as we can not use the mixed bag we've all been running.

[Odanan]

Gyrok, on 12 December 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

The enemy possesses spies in our ranks who have tuned our weapons poorly, so we are at a general disadvantage for tech at this point.

No, you aren't at disadvantage.

You still have the best heavy (Timber Wolf), medium (Stormcrow) and assault (Dire Wolf) mechs of the game. Your XL engines don't blow with the loss of one side torso and your weapons still weight less, do more damage and have better range. And besides having better mechs, you are fighting with the same drop weight and using the same dishonorable artillery/air strike.

So much for zellbrigen.

Edited by Odanan, 12 December 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Dark DeLaurel]

Odanan,

Three Mechs do not make a complete drop when we ha e to follow 3x4 rules. The IS still have the best lights and deal better FLD.

Zell, was out the window a very long time ago. I would love to do it, but people would complain a lot...

[Gyrok]

Odanan, on 12 December 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

No, you aren't at disadvantage.

You still have the best heavy (Timber Wolf), medium (Stormcrow) and assault (Dire Wolf) mechs of the game. Your XL engines don't blow with the loss of one side torso and your weapons still weight less, do more damage and have better range. And besides having better mechs, you are fighting with the same drop weight and using the same dishonorable artillery/air strike.

So much for zellbrigen.

Those being the best in their weight classes are all debatable, save the SCR, and even then, I would say that the IS mechs are not far behind...(see: WVR with "God Hand" quirks)

The KGC is better than the DW, pretty much outright. 60 PP FLD Alpha inside 300m is better than spraying 100 2 damage rounds at a mech any time.

The TBR is good, but only at being versatile. There are mechs in the IS that out perform the TW at their specialties.

Getting pretty sick of the "Clans are far superior" BS...if you had paid any attention, it really is not true anymore...

When IS mechs are quirked to the point they out perform clans with STD engines...you cannot say we are more survivable...

No clan medium can tank like a YLW for example. With quirks, I would even say if it had JJs it might be the best medium in the game...again.

Clans have no lights to compete. IS lights are greater than ours across the board.

As for having an advantage...well, considering that we do not have enough teams to repel attackers completely, there is no way we can not suffer countless matches where there are no defenders, hence losing worlds we may have held otherwise. With tech being so close, the fact that we are outnumbered severely, and everyone wants a piece of the clans, means we may not even be able to hold what we have, let alone actually take any worlds.

All it takes to be unable to take a planet is to have 1 more team attacking than you have defending. The attackers will get free victories for every match they drop that you cannot defend. Regardless of tech advantages, population is the big difference maker here...and while we have some numbers...an organized House Davion could control the entire map by itself by sheer numbers.

Without logistics to limit these things, it will not be a war of attrition, it will be a war of throwing cannon fodder numbers at a lesser force to take planets.

[Fractis Zero]

Dire wolf is still king. You can make a 2 gauss, 2 large pulse laser, 4 ER ML build. There now you have the king crab WITH range.

Nothing is better then the TBR. If an IS heavy cam do more damage then the TBR is moving at twice the speed with JJS. Same can be said about the SCR.

In CW we don't follow 3x4 rule. So if you want meta run 3 SCR and a TBR.

We lack number of teams not inferior mechs.

Oh and eliminate IS mechs with a couple of streak crows

[Odanan]

Gyrok, on 12 December 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Those being the best in their weight classes are all debatable, save the SCR, and even then, I would say that the IS mechs are not far behind...(see: WVR with "God Hand" quirks)

The KGC is better than the DW, pretty much outright. 60 PP FLD Alpha inside 300m is better than spraying 100 2 damage rounds at a mech any time.

The TBR is good, but only at being versatile. There are mechs in the IS that out perform the TW at their specialties.

Getting pretty sick of the "Clans are far superior" BS...if you had paid any attention, it really is not true anymore...

When IS mechs are quirked to the point they out perform clans with STD engines...you cannot say we are more survivable...

No clan medium can tank like a YLW for example. With quirks, I would even say if it had JJs it might be the best medium in the game...again.

Clans have no lights to compete. IS lights are greater than ours across the board.

As for having an advantage...well, considering that we do not have enough teams to repel attackers completely, there is no way we can not suffer countless matches where there are no defenders, hence losing worlds we may have held otherwise. With tech being so close, the fact that we are outnumbered severely, and everyone wants a piece of the clans, means we may not even be able to hold what we have, let alone actually take any worlds.

All it takes to be unable to take a planet is to have 1 more team attacking than you have defending. The attackers will get free victories for every match they drop that you cannot defend. Regardless of tech advantages, population is the big difference maker here...and while we have some numbers...an organized House Davion could control the entire map by itself by sheer numbers.

Without logistics to limit these things, it will not be a war of attrition, it will be a war of throwing cannon fodder numbers at a lesser force to take planets.

I eat King Crabs for lunch in my Dakka Wolf. The thing can make an entire lance retreat screaming for cover. And the Timber Wolf.. speed of a medium, firepower and resistance of an assault mech - it couldn't be better. But I have to agree about the lack of real light mechs (is not that Clan lights are bad, the problem is the IS light are unnaturally too fast).

If you are losing battles because you have less players, PGI needs to review how CW matchmaking works.

I will eventually be joining the Clans, anyway. Playing with omnimechs is much more interesting.

[Odanan]

Dark DeLaurel, on 12 December 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Odanan,

Three Mechs do not make a complete drop when we ha e to follow 3x4 rules. The IS still have the best lights and deal better FLD.

Zell, was out the window a very long time ago. I would love to do it, but people would complain a lot...

What 3x4 rules?
3x Stormcrow and 1x Timber Wolf in this war of attrition will beat anything IS can throw against you.

[Gyrok]

Fractis Zero, on 12 December 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Dire wolf is still king. You can make a 2 gauss, 2 large pulse laser, 4 ER ML build. There now you have the king crab WITH range.

Nothing is better then the TBR. If an IS heavy cam do more damage then the TBR is moving at twice the speed with JJS. Same can be said about the SCR.

In CW we don't follow 3x4 rule. So if you want meta run 3 SCR and a TBR.

We lack number of teams not inferior mechs.

Oh and eliminate IS mechs with a couple of streak crows

Inside 400m the TDR-5SS is above and beyond the TW with ANY build...

Past 500m, a Dual Gauss IS heavy is better than the TW for ranged engagements.

The TW can do both of those ranges well, but not better, and cannot do Dual Gauss at all worth considering.

The DW has HALF the mobility of the KGC, the KGC with a 300 engine torso twists 100 degrees (30 more than DW) and at 99 deg/sec which is faster than a Victor can torso twist with a 400 engine (to say it is twice the DW is not as awe striking as the victor comparison)

Want a KGC with range? 2xGauss + 2x PPC 6T ammo and 1.4 heat efficiency...and it moves faster/torso twists better/has STD engine over DW.

Sorry, KGC > DW, and want Dakka? 4xUAC5 with IS PP FLD > 5x CUAC5 with water hose spread.

Edited by Gyrok, 12 December 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[_Comrade_]

Heck! Jade falcon has been holding off a coalition of FRR, lyran, and Davion forces on Apollo and we're still doing well despite non of the other clans helping. Personally I not interested in butte holde or any other clan held planet , I've been assaulting Apollo with lords and JFP. I think our mechs are superior , I found timber wolves to be extremely valuable

[Lily from animove]

at the moment its beta, and you can be happy to find any planet to even fight on, since MM isn't best atm.

[Genesis Rex]

I see a fair amount of discussion around 'mech builds. The problem with that is you're talking a numbers game; whose 'mech has the biggest billfold, etc. Perhaps what should be talking about is "which Faction has the best pilots"? Any Surat can slap 2x2 Guass/PPC on their MADCAT or KGC, but the ones you need to worry about are the ones who can aim.

[CHH Badkarma]

I do agree that at this point we should refrain from any in fighting amongst ourselves. Im sure we all know that any other critical subjects should be handled on, lets say the Strana Mechty ts server, as the freebirths can come and go here at will. Not to memtion how good they are at derailing a subject.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 12 December 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Joanna Conners]

Odanan, on 12 December 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

No, you aren't at disadvantage.

You still have the best heavy (Timber Wolf), medium (Stormcrow) and assault (Dire Wolf) mechs of the game. Your XL engines don't blow with the loss of one side torso and your weapons still weight less, do more damage and have better range. And besides having better mechs, you are fighting with the same drop weight and using the same dishonorable artillery/air strike.

So much for zellbrigen.

If MWO was true to the lore, we could talk about zell. Since it isn't, there is no point in your silliness.

[Fractis Zero]

Gyrok, on 12 December 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

Inside 400m the TDR-5SS is above and beyond the TW with ANY build...

Past 500m, a Dual Gauss IS heavy is better than the TW for ranged engagements.

The TW can do both of those ranges well, but not better, and cannot do Dual Gauss at all worth considering.

The DW has HALF the mobility of the KGC, the KGC with a 300 engine torso twists 100 degrees (30 more than DW) and at 99 deg/sec which is faster than a Victor can torso twist with a 400 engine (to say it is twice the DW is not as awe striking as the victor comparison)

Want a KGC with range? 2xGauss + 2x PPC 6T ammo and 1.4 heat efficiency...and it moves faster/torso twists better/has STD engine over DW.

Sorry, KGC > DW, and want Dakka? 4xUAC5 with IS PP FLD > 5x CUAC5 with water hose spread.

TBR is still faster and more agile. TBR can adjust to battlefield engagements due to speed and mobility. Th underbolts and jaegers are niche mechs. They are amazing at a specific range in a specific environment. Want to out dps a thunderbolt, run 6 ER ML and 4 SRM6s.

The king crab with 2 gauss and 2 PPCs either runs an xl or a smaller engine then the dire wolf. So, no it isn't better then a dire wolf.

Edited by Fractis Zero, 12 December 2014 - 12:27 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Well this thread was derailed fast.

After checking out CW last night I have to agree with the OP. All my drops were on that sulfuric crater map and I have to say that map is a challenge for us where our range advantage doesn't come into play but our heat disadvantage is magnified.

The current state of the game balance I would say does favor the IS which you will never hear me complaining about. I am up for any challenge and people who cry for nerfs are the worst players and ruin the game for everyone. I wouldn't mind seeing some of our nerfs rolled back though--I think its far past the time our ERPPCs did the full 15 damage.

However, back on topic. My first CW match was against a 12 man from Clan Ghost Bear--they weren't interested in zellbrigen duels and even legged people. They rushed a gate and zerged the cannon and won inside of 4 minutes with the score 13 kills for us and 4 for them. If this is what CW is going to be then let's at least direct it towards the IS and once they are under our collective heels we can turn on each other. I know it was only one night but the early outlook is that unless we work together I don't see us getting anywhere near Terra.

Anyway, as someone who has always exclusively PUG'd I think now I'll change my tune and join a unit as well. I want to win in CW, not be fodder for these leg-happy 12 mans.

The FPS and choppiness made the fighting really sloppy and frustrating as well--did anyone else get a glitch where your 'mech disappears/reappears but the rest of your HUD remains intact?

I saw weird stuff too when I fired my lasers--not all lasers would appear though it looked from my weapon readout they fired. Sometimes if I fired lasers that were mounted in opposite arms it would appear they both came from the same arm too.

Edited by Kain Thul, 12 December 2014 - 03:02 PM.

[unwary]

How to not be too bad at community warfare:

• Don't bring LRM boats.
  
• Get teamspeak
  
• Join the ngng ts server
  
• Server: voip01.n1585.hypernia.net:9992, Password: mechwarrior

When you get into a match, ask people to what dropship to group up in. Now you guys can coordinate easily.

Edited by unwary, 12 December 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[CoffiNail]

... Why do people think we will follow zellbrigen? First you have no way to easily identify to an opposing force who is challenging who aside from chat which takes away a lot of time. Unless you have a twelve man you cannot easily Id your challenge to your team.

Plus the Clans are not at the severe advantage that was the reason for the implementation of zellbrigen in Battletech. CGBI would love to figure out a system for zellbrigen in community warfare, sadly, like in lore, few opponents would follow it, and would take advantage of it.

OT I agree we need a unified front of the Clans to focus on taking worlds from the inner sphere.

[Gyrok]

Fractis Zero, on 12 December 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

TBR is still faster and more agile. TBR can adjust to battlefield engagements due to speed and mobility. Th underbolts and jaegers are niche mechs. They are amazing at a specific range in a specific environment. Want to out dps a thunderbolt, run 6 ER ML and 4 SRM6s.

The king crab with 2 gauss and 2 PPCs either runs an xl or a smaller engine then the dire wolf. So, no it isn't better then a dire wolf.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0791d807433e1b1

STD 300 engine...so...yes it is better than a DW.

EDIT: KGC w/STD300 + Endo only gives up 5 tons of pod space to a DW and KGC has large movement archetype while DW has massive movement archetype. You cannot possibly win this argument.

Edited by Gyrok, 12 December 2014 - 03:28 PM.