165 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Good_Cat, on 17 December 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

The reason you see 8 TiberWolf's and 4 StormCrows attacking - why would i take anything over a Tiberwolf or a StormCrow. Summoner? Nova? Ice Ferret? Mist Lynx? Gargoyle? ummm why !!

because your amount of owned clanmechs is so low you have to fill with trials.

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 December 2014 - 05:30 AM.

[Good_Cat]

Lily from animove, on 17 December 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

because your amount of owned clanmechs is so low you have to fill with trials.

Good post - so you know this how ? Or did the stick up your a** break off and you resorted to spamming a ret**ded jibe in a pointless post.

Masakari Pack and Hellbringer .fyi

@Tahribator / Lily from animove, sounded like a dig if it wasn't a soz dude. my bad.

Edited by Good_Cat, 17 December 2014 - 06:34 AM.

[Tahribator]

Perhaps, instead of a personal attack, Lily from animove pointed out that one of the reasons those 'Mechs are taken is because some people don't have enough Clan 'Mechs. So, they have to fill the rest with Clan trials.

You should chill out a bit.

[Lily from animove]

Good_Cat, on 17 December 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

Good post - so you know this how ? Or did the stick up your a** break off and you resorted to spamming a ret**ded jibe in a pointless post.

Masakari Pack and Hellbringer .fyi

Made my first CW match with my alt account Grimmrog, since I didn-'t trusted the faction selection and it may turn out weird. That account has nothing than wrong bought IS mechs, - the newbie mistakes when wasting the cadette bonus on crab.

hopped into only unmastered clantrials, ADR, SCR, NVA, TBR,

unfortunately, the team died off so quick, I was spawn farmed in my NVA and TBR. So those chassis neve rhad the chance to do somethign at all, still the result:



and in regular matches 1800 dmg are quite normal, 2xtbr, scr adr, yes there is no reason not to take TBR's except not having two.

And so coming to your point: Becaue with current trials, you have only one TBR and one SCR available, and so you have to take anything else. Which then will very likely include a Nova.

Not everyone bought the package for real $, not everoyne has grinded yet enough cbills for a clanner dropdeck. world is containing more people than only you.

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 December 2014 - 06:34 AM.

[Good_Cat]

Tahribator, on 17 December 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

Perhaps, instead of a personal attack, Lily from animove pointed out that one of the reasons those 'Mechs are taken is because some people don't have enough Clan 'Mechs. So, they have to fill the rest with Clan trials.

You should chill out a bit.

Fair point, i expected usual forum grief.

Sorry Lily from Animove i seemed to have jumped the gun on your post.

Edited by Good_Cat, 17 December 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[SkipP]

I'll preface this by saying I'm not an expert, not a competitive player, and not in a group. But since this is in the CW forum, I'll lend my 2-cents as to why it seems like clan mechs are OP in CW (since that's the point of this thread).

In general, I think Clan and IS mechs are relatively even. I think it takes quite a bit more skill on the part of the IS mech pilot to equal a clan mech piloted by a mediocre pilot, but overall I think the balance is relatively right in other non-CW game modes. The reason it seems so lopsided in CW is due to a few points:

1) One of the maps in CW (Boreal Vault) basically allows clan mechs to play up all of their strengths (long unbroken range and sight-lines, and cool temperatures), while not hindering any of their weaknesses in any way. The other map punishes both teams evenly, so it's a wash. When 50% of the maps favor a long-range, hot-running play style, the side that takes advantage of that the most - in this case, the Clans - is going to come out on top more often than not. Especially when IS mechs have to counter-attack. So, essentially, if the Clans win a match, and the IScounter-attack is on Boreal Vault, the Clan forces are almost guaranteed a win. My guess is PGI knows this, and the Boreal Vault map will be getting a large overhaul sometime after Christmas to create more avenues of attack, and more cover for the attackers.

2) The IS factions have far more fronts to fight on than the clans do. For instance, Steiner forces have 6 fronts to fight on. Davion forces have 4. Draconis Combine has 6, etc. By comparison, Jade Falcon has 2 (1 if you take into account that they aren't attacking Wolf). Although the organized IS teams know the focus on the Clans, the large number of fronts still filters out a good chunk of the IS faction's player bases to unnecessary fronts. This could probably be fixed with some sort of faction chat, but I'm not entirely sure it's really a problem, to be honest.

3) Many of the truly good, competitive teams are in the Clans. This is mostly a symptom of Clan mechs being perceived as (either right or wrong) too time and money intensive for casual players to get in to. This results in the hardcore players, the competitive players, tending to pool in the clans with expensive clan mechs. I don't think it's a bad thing, just something to be aware of, and I think PGI will do something to make IS matches more even and fun in this regard. Remember, even though the clans steam-roll the IS in the lore, that doesn't necessarily make for a good, or fun, game.

tl;dr - clan mechs and IS mechs can be relatively equal, but the maps, strategic positioning in CW as a whole, and the prevalence of hardcore teams in the Clan ranks make it seem like the IS is at a severe disadvantage. These are obviously not universal truths, as IS mechs CAN and DO win on the Boreal Vault maps, but played out over a large sample size of matches this seems to be the case.

[TIggerstYle]

I'm sorry OP but you're wrong, Do quirks improve what were clearly weaker mechs? Absolutely. What you don't factor in is that in order to carry sufficient firepower or the much overlooked Speed factor you need to run an XL in your IS mech. Now when my side torso is gone i'm also gone, when a Clan side torso is gone he still carries enough firepower to be a serious threat. And Clan Heavy mechs all move at 81 KPH minimum, Name an IS heavy without an XL engine and sufficient firepower that moves that quick? You cant because that's the trade off for IS Mechs, Survive-ability Vs Speed and Firepower, you can't have em both. If it wasn't for my blasted unit being Davion aligned i'd be in my Clan Mechs every single drop.

[SaltBeef]

The Truth About IS Mechs is that they 10 times better and more customizable in this Game than they ever were in Lore!,......Yet Crack IS unit's still whine about them.

[Dimento Graven]

SaltBeef, on 17 December 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

The Truth About IS Mechs is that they 10 times better and more customizable in this Game than they ever were in Lore!,......Yet Crack IS unit's still whine about them.

Um... No.

In "lore" or TT as I'm guessing you're referring to, you could COMPMLETELY customize your 'mech. There were far fewer restrictions on what you could put in where.

Fusion engines, ALL OF THEM, had 10 heat sinks, none of this being forced to add heat sinks silliness we all have to put up with now.

You could put JJ on ANY 'mech, period.

You could put ECM in ANY 'mech, period.

You had a hell of a lot more control on structure/FF armor slots than you do now.

You could put any number of any weapon any where on a 'mech as long as you had slots.

Want a 23 machine gun Atlas? You could do it! There was no such thing as "ballistic/laser/missile/AMS/JJ/ECM/CC/TC" specific slots.

As far as 'customization' goes this game is QUITE restrictive actually.

[KuroNyra]

Just fought a FANG on my Gargoyle Prime. One should expect the Gargoyle to crush the Dragon. I mean, it's Clan and it's an Assault vs a Heavy.
Not really, I actually had to overheat myselft and ignore it in order to kill that guy... I died shortly after


edit: Ok, I fought with my splatcat (4 pulse laser, 1 med laser and 3 SRM4 + 1 SRM6) a Thunderbolt on Alpine peaks...
Again a close match and while I survived. I was cored AND lost a side torso. But hey! Timber Wolves are OP!

Edited by KuroNyra, 17 December 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[SaltBeef]

Horse puckie! Is mech rarely were customized beyond Factory specs .......Unless the owner was a very rich Royal with connections. That means your Raven 3L rarely went faster than 97kph and had a srm 6 and 2 med lasers for armament. As a matter of fact the Hermes 210xl was IS TOP of the line for the chassis as well as the tag, narc, gecm suites ..... buyers were awed that it had CASE incorperated.

Edited by SaltBeef, 17 December 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

SaltBeef, on 17 December 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Horse puckie! Is mech rarely were customized beyond Factory specs .......Unless the owner was a very rich Royal with connections. That means your Raven 3L rarely went faster than 97kph and had a srm 6 and 2 med lasers for armament. As a matter of fact the Hermes 210xl was IS TOP of the line for the chassis as well as the tag, narc, gecm suites ..... buyers were awed that it had CASE incorperated.

Or the owner of an old chassis handed down from one generation to the next.

Or the owner of an old 'mech where certain components were no longer manufactured and considered 'LosTech' or the person was a member of a mercenary unit and utilized salvage from another 'mech to repair their own, so on and so forth ad infinitum, ad nauseum...

Pitch your fit elsewhere, those of us who have played this IP since the late 80's know better.

[SaltBeef]

Im probably Older than you! Just stating what many conveniently fail to recognize. I am not saying to change anything just looking to see if thier is any integrity on the subject and find little forthcoming.

Edited by SaltBeef, 17 December 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

SaltBeef, on 17 December 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

I'm probably Older than you! Just stating what many conveniently fail to recognize. I am not saying to change anything just looking to see if thier is any integrity on the subject and find little forthcoming.

I'm at that age where it's increasingly difficult to believe anyone is older than myself, but I don't doubt the possibility.

My impression from all the novels, rule sets, BattleTechnology issues (of which I >>STILL<< have most of 'em, I think it's neat), 'mech modification was something that was considered a matter of course.

A battlefield repair, and you don't happen to have access to any working Martel Medium Lasers, so what do you do? Screw it, we got a crap ton of machine guns and ammo, load 'em up... I ain't running 4 tons light just because I can't get THE original type of weapon that goes in that crit slot!

Anyway, that's what I recall was the most common factor in 'customization' of 'mechs...

They're nice and shiny and up to factory specs up until their first battle, then... All bets are off on it staying that way...

[SaltBeef]

Yes , if you had a very good high level Technician installing you spoils.

[hybrid black]

kapusta11, on 16 December 2014 - 02:31 AM, said:

So 20 FLD damage is better than 50 Hitscan DOT? Ok, I must be a noob.

only 20? what builds are you useing

[Lily from animove]

Dimento Graven, on 17 December 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

Or the owner of an old chassis handed down from one generation to the next.

Or the owner of an old 'mech where certain components were no longer manufactured and considered 'LosTech' or the person was a member of a mercenary unit and utilized salvage from another 'mech to repair their own, so on and so forth ad infinitum, ad nauseum...

Pitch your fit elsewhere, those of us who have played this IP since the late 80's know better.

yeha maybe, but how many raavens in % in this game go by lore? looks like every IS player had a acenstor using one or is a rich brat.

[Dimento Graven]

SaltBeef, on 17 December 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

Yes , if you had a very good high level Technician installing you spoils.

Untrue, one of my favorite lore stories is about a pilot who makes mods to his 'mech.

These weapons are made for the military, and as you know, the military doesn't get all the best and brightest minds. We could 'imagine' that in the future they haven't veered far away from having interface standards, so that even the greenest recruits could be directed to do repairs with assistance and oversight from a more experienced tech and make 'component' level changes to vehicles they are maintaining.

Only the more technical things like fusion engine repair, computer repair, actuator and gyro repair would need specific technical knowledge, and of course, we don't have a lot of that going on in this game.

You keep pressing a point that has a lot of history in the IP of the exact opposite.

[reign]

Dimento Graven, on 17 December 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Um... No.

In "lore" or TT as I'm guessing you're referring to, you could COMPMLETELY customize your 'mech. There were far fewer restrictions on what you could put in where.

Fusion engines, ALL OF THEM, had 10 heat sinks, none of this being forced to add heat sinks silliness we all have to put up with now.

You could put JJ on ANY 'mech, period.

You could put ECM in ANY 'mech, period.

You had a hell of a lot more control on structure/FF armor slots than you do now.

You could put any number of any weapon any where on a 'mech as long as you had slots.

Want a 23 machine gun Atlas? You could do it! There was no such thing as "ballistic/laser/missile/AMS/JJ/ECM/CC/TC" specific slots.

As far as 'customization' goes this game is QUITE restrictive actually.

What?

Engines and Heat sinks are absolutely correct. they only have so many based on tonnage. The thing that is different is Gyro's (which are built into the engine in MWO and are not calculated correctly).

You could not swap much actually on an inner sphere mech. An ER large laser could replace a Large laser because it was very similar but required a tech roll with a +2 difficulty modifier.

That's why Inner sphere mechs raced to make omni mechs after the clans came around. The pod technology let them swap weapons at will based on Theators of combat.

Edit : look up the tech manual. or even the old battltech compendium. yes the engine comes with 10 heat sinks but it only holds a number internally based on weight.

Re read construction rules man !!

Edited by reign, 17 December 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Lily from animove, on 17 December 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

yeha maybe, but how many raavens in % in this game go by lore? looks like every IS player had a acenstor using one or is a rich brat.

You want to go by game date, or would you prefer to go by the fact we've had Ravens, in game now, for over 2 years?

Again, after the first battle, all bets are off on these 'mechs remaining exactly as they did after walking out the assembly line.

Of course Clanners can and do modify their own builds, otherwise we wouldn't see so many bullet hoses and wub-vomiters out there as we do now.

I look at it this way:

Atlas/King Crab vs. Direwhale

All of these are 100 ton 'mechs.

The Direwhale has the ability to be configured to have the capacity of dishing out 1200+ damage in less than 2.5 minutes.

That's not possible in the Atlas, and I'm not sure if it's possible in the King Crab.

Even if it is possible in the King Crab, you'd have to sacrifice significant speed in order to match the Direwhale's survivability. Namely, in a King Crab to be able to keep your speed up, you load an IS XL engine, BUT, you then have to suffer the extreme weakness of losing a torso and dying.

The Direwhale, while slow even with its XL engine, can STILL survive a loss of a torso and be extremely deadly and hard to kill.

The balance to that is the IS pilot gets to configure his 'mech a little more liberally than his Clanner opposition can.

All Clanner histrionics on the subject aside, there's only a FEW IS builds where their ability to be customized using various IS weapon systems and in combination with the recent significant F'd hit registration since CW make them "OP". Of course there are Clan 'mechs that also qualify as OP under those same considerations.

Beyond all the crying, gnashing of teeth and pulling of hair from the Chicken Littles on this thread there isn't actually a MAJOR problem that has to be fixed RIGHT NOW. There are minor issues that we can live with for the time being...

reign, on 17 December 2014 - 11:44 AM, said:

What?

Engines and Heat sinks are absolutely correct. they only have so many based on tonnage. The thing that is different is Gyro's (which are built into the engine in MWO and are not calculated correctly).

You could not swap much actually on an inner sphere mech. An ER large laser could replace a Large laser because it was very similar but required a tech roll with a +2 difficulty modifier.

That's why Inner sphere mechs raced to make omni mechs after the clans came around. The pod technology let them swap weapons at will based on Theators of combat.

Edit : look up the tech manual. or even the old battltech compendium. yes the engine comes with 10 heat sinks but it only holds a number internally based on weight.

Re read construction rules man !!

Yeah yeah the optional tech rules you could apply, but weren't required, and were written, what... Maybe 10 years AFTER the game had been in play?

A +2 difficulty modifier, lols...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 17 December 2014 - 11:54 AM.