86 replies to this topic

[Gallowglas]

Siegegun, on 16 December 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

And there IS a reason for the 4 mech requirement. To prevent people like you from playing assualtmech online. See, if you do not restrict either the tonnage or the 4 mech requirement, MOST people will just take 3 heavies or assaults. If that happened then there would be a lot less variety, a lot less lower tonnage mechs and the gameplay would be a lot worse.

How do you know what I would or would not pilot? To be perfectly honest, my drop deck wouldn't change much if I were able to take three mechs. Instead of taking a Locust I might uprank a Thunderbolt to a Stalker. I doubt that would make a massive difference. However even if it did, there are tradeoffs I don't think you are considering: 1) if I'm a defender, I'm losing out on potentially crucial dropship firepower late game and, 2) getting an unlucky death hurts more.

Also, without downranking your mech choices, the most optimized drop deck you're going to get would either be three Victors or three Timberwolves (and you'd be sacrificing tonnage for the latter). Compare that to dropping with a Stalker, a Thunderbolt, a Cataphract, and a Locust or two Timberwolves, a Stormcrow, and a Kitfox. Sure, you could go crazy and drop with two Dire Wolves and a Kitfox, but even there I just don't see a majorly strategic difference.

Now, would that mean you'd see me in fewer lights? Absolutely. However, I don't think that would impact your gameplay experience much.

Edited by Gallowglas, 16 December 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[Siegegun]

You missed the point of what I was saying. I am saying if you decrease the 4 mech requirement much less decrease it and ADD tonnage, a lot of the "mech balance" in terms of classes taken will disappear. So yes that DOES affect me and my game. I was around before 3/3/3/3, and the ratio of heavies and assaults to everything else was quite frankly stupid.

Also you just proved my point. You want to 86 the locust so you can add 20 more tons to your drop deck. and drop in just 3 mechs. The 4 mech requirement is there for a reason. To help balance drop decks and increase class variety. Or would rather go back to 1/1/1/1? Without some type of mechanic to create variety there will be none. I would think the days before 3/3/3/3 exemplifies this.

edit- also wanted to note that the standard que times and percentages of the public que also reinforce what I am saying. Generally the lights and medium que times and percentages reflect exactly the problem. Unless some fancy new gundam is released, the combined totals of the light and medium ques added together will not equal either the assault or the heavy que. Why do you think 3/3/3/3 was created and enforced? To stop assaultwarrior online. While I had a great time with the game then I never thought it would stay that way, nor wuld I want to see its return. You are basically asking for the 2.0 version of those times only in CW instead of what is now the public que. Without an enforcement mechanism baked in, would becom that again.

Edited by Siegegun, 16 December 2014 - 01:26 PM.

[Harbinger Prime]

Since tonnage would apply to every one so in your example everyone else could bring the same thing so I see no problem.

As far as PGI releasing more clan mech's they have to walk a fine line between what and when because there are those who paid a large lump of cash for them and should be given the time for them to have exclusivity and having them sold for credits. Unfortunately for me I can only but them with credits so the time it will take me to take advantage of the ones PGI releases.

Caine2112, on 16 December 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

Although I can sympathize with the limited number of clan mechs to make effective drop decks, as Siegegun mentioned, the clans are slowly and steadily creeping south towards Terra at a good pace. You also need to note that the clans already have a noticeable advantage with their greater range. As an Inner Sphere pilot, I've been at the receiving end of that increased range, being picked off with ER LLs and ER PPCs.

Increasing the tonnage limit isn't the answer. Besides, it makes making your drop deck more challenging.

The clan ER PPC has the same range and damage as a IS ER PPC the only difference is the clan ER PPC only takes 2 slots and in 6 tons. If you are getting hit from further out the they have maxed out the range in the pilot tree and bought the modal to activate it. Clan mech's have other down sides the biggest of which is limited customizability you can customize your IS mech to your hearts content while clan mech's you cant change engines, heat sinks, jump jets and in some cases you are stuck with a weapon that you will not use.

[Gallowglas]

Siegegun, on 16 December 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

You missed the point of what I was saying. I am saying if you decrease the 4 mech requirement much less decrease it and ADD tonnage, a lot of the "mech balance" in terms of classes taken will disappear. So yes that DOES affect me and my game. I was around before 3/3/3/3, and the ratio of heavies and assaults to everything else was quite frankly stupid.

Also you just proved my point. You want to 86 the locust so you can add 20 more tons to your drop deck. and drop in just 3 mechs. The 4 mech requirement is there for a reason. To help balance drop decks and increase class variety. Or would rather go back to 1/1/1/1? Without some type of mechanic to create variety there will be none. I would think the days before 3/3/3/3 exemplifies this.

No, I get your point entirely. My point is that taking a Stalker versus a Thunderbolt + Locust isn't an immediately obvious shift in balance. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the semantics of what such a loosening of restrictions would do to gameplay. I think it would make players happier with their choices while still maintaining balance. Clearly you don't agree and that's fine.

[Summon3r]

240 is there for a reason and a good one, so u cant run 3 t-wolves. dont get me wrong as a clanner id love 3 t-wolves but im sure we can all see where that is going.

[Siegegun]

I do see your point as well, and do not want to come across too harshly, or have you think I am attacking you. I suppose i just feel very strongly about it, for the reasons listed above.Your just stating your opinion and I respect that. The problem is by loosening even that you open up a rabbit hole, as if you can do it everyone can. And if everyone can it WILL affect the drop decks and EVERY drop deck that is "competitive" will suddenly end up more tons and with less variety. That is not a guess. By loosening that restriction even that much it opens a huge can of worms as far as class balance goes. PGI is obviously aware of that or there wouldn't be 3/3/3/3. And we have ALOT more options than the original plan which was 1/1/1/1.

I personally would prefer a battle value type system. But since we can not have that this is what it is. There has to be some sort of class balance or there would be none. I am personally hoping when PGI adds to CW they will have planets with both more AND less tonnage restrictions. I think the 240 is fine for a baseline and to get the ball rolling, but more variety is better. I just do not think an across the board change is a good idea.

Edited by Siegegun, 16 December 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Mark Brandhauber]

I think reducing clan weight limits to 220 and keeping the IS at 240 sounds better

[Harbinger Prime]

There is the perception that clan mech's have a great advantage over IS mech's while they may do better in public matches but in CW that diminishes do to the fact that clan involvement is higher, I have had my Dire Wolf vaporized in under 4 sec buy an IS lance who with were on TS and focused fire turning me in to scrap metal. So 3 TW so what for the same tonnage I could have my four JagerMech's which would make me very happy.

[Sabertooth1966]

Agreed the 240 limit is 25 to low. If you own a 100 ton a 75 ton a 55 ton and a 35 ton you can't bring them all. In my case I own the Atlas the Orion the centurion and Jenner. If I want to bring an atlas I can't bring an Orion and have to use a trial mech. in the deck to finish it out, and don't try the you have to just get another mech. Some of these mech's are mastered others all of the basic skills are researched.

[Scratx]

Sabertooth1966, on 16 December 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Agreed the 240 limit is 25 to low. If you own a 100 ton a 75 ton a 55 ton and a 35 ton you can't bring them all. In my case I own the Atlas the Orion the centurion and Jenner. If I want to bring an atlas I can't bring an Orion and have to use a trial mech. in the deck to finish it out, and don't try the you have to just get another mech. Some of these mech's are mastered others all of the basic skills are researched.

I'm going to quote myself.

Scratx, on 16 December 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

So letting them bring 3 Timberwolves and a Kit Fox solves every problem. Got it.

If this doesn't give you pause to think about why it's 240 tons, then nothing will.

[Sabertooth1966]

I don't care what the enemy brings I will try and kill it. Also your argument can be turned the other way. If they can bring more heavies than so can you. Timber wolves are tough I will give you that but I believe a properly loaded and piloted IS heavy can go toe to toe with them.

Edited by Sabertooth1966, 16 December 2014 - 03:30 PM.

[John80sk]

I'd rather see group tonnage limits. 480 for a 2 man, 720 for a 3 man, etc... but as a mostly medium/heavy pilot, I'm pretty much fine how it is now.

[Harbinger Prime]

Sabertooth1966, on 16 December 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

I don't care what the enemy brings I will try and kill it. Also your argument can be turned the other way. If they can bring more heavies than so can you. Timber wolves are tough I will give you that but I believe a properly loaded and piloted IS heavy can go toe to toe with them.

Agreed.

I will quote my self

Harbinger Prime, on 16 December 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

So 3 TW so what for the same tonnage I could have my four JagerMech's which would make me very happy.

[Serpentbane]

They way the classes are balanced in this game, this weight limit is pretty much useless. Not that weight do not matter, but assaults are not the walking fortresses with insane alphas they're supposed to be, and in most matches lights can run around as they like.

[QuimMorius]

lol, won't happen....

[McHoshi]

Setting clan drop limit to 220 while keeping IS drop limit at 240 seems to me a very good idea

[Stealth Fox]

Astrocanis, on 16 December 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

As opposed to "too many Madcats"?

That's Timber Wolves, Free Birth Scum. D=<

and why is it no one seems to bother with the MadDog? I've wrecked face with mine and done very well in it, both attack AND defense on both maps.

Edited by Seph MacLeod, 20 December 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[LennStar]

Harbinger Prime, on 16 December 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

I was trying to stay as close to the 240, as possible. that number is from the max weight for each class

Why not take the average?
30+50+65+90
that would be 335t.
You can use one mech per weight class without problems.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I vote no, as a full time Clan player.

Additionally, PGI noted that in the future, there is the potential for different planets having different DROPDEC weights.

In the meantime, I agree with the 240 ton limit. It helps to make Assaults less common. When you do see them, they are worth noting!

[Firewuff]

the whole point was to avoid everyone bringing the heavies in its class. also 265 would allow 2x100 ton + 2 lights.... not ideal