49 replies to this topic

[100mile]

Panzerbjorn, on 19 December 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Because you get Goonswarm mentality that goes like this: all of the IS houses decide to gang-up on the clans and push them out of the IS (because you get Goonswarms and BoB getting together to eliminate a bigger threat) and now you have a really ******* boring game with a ton of disenfranchised players who quit and stop giving PGI money. Which means you won't have a game to play anymore. This is not like EVE where there's always "CareBearLand".

Who would be silly enough to team up with Goonswarm.........oh.....Marik.... ....the rest of us know better..and people might want to pay attention to whom is allying with whom as the player base defines this game...although the FEDCOM alliance is going pretty well, minus a few units that haven't gotten the word, other alliances are completely against cannon and involve certain Clans.. ((cough GB cough))... and an IS faction predominately mentioned in this thread...

Edited by 100mile, 19 December 2014 - 11:35 AM.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 19 December 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

I disagree. Planets are not like castles, whose inhabitants can eventually be starved to death. This assumes of course that the planet in question is habitable.

As such, if you want this damned stinking piece of rock of mine, you're going to have to take it ... or die trying.

depends on what they do with logistics which they're planning on!

Panzerbjorn, on 19 December 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Oh right, because you can just chat up some keshik or unit leader as a completely unaligned merc or non-leadership member of a unit and try to form up an alliance without getting laughed at. There are very few people in positions of power in this game, and I would imagine that most of them are busy enough running their units that it makes it challenging and difficult to coordinate with other units and form alliances and strategies. If they do take the time to do that, then they're not spending their time constructively managing their units and risk them falling apart. Plus most of the units are merc outfits who aren't interested in forming alliances, just farming c-bills from the fattest contracts each week.

So your answer to coordinating with other units is "I'm not going to attempt it"?

Then you're not going to get it done, meanwhile the units that ARE doing it, ARE going to get it done. You're being given tips and suggestions and you're just completely ignoring them.

Organize the units in your faction that you can and then organize with the other units in other clans. If what you said were accurate, those of us in the IS units wouldn't already have done it.

[Roadbeer]

Panzerbjorn, on 19 December 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Oh right, because you can just chat up some keshik or unit leader as a completely unaligned merc or non-leadership member of a unit and try to form up an alliance without getting laughed at. There are very few people in positions of power in this game, and I would imagine that most of them are busy enough running their units that it makes it challenging and difficult to coordinate with other units and form alliances and strategies. If they do take the time to do that, then they're not spending their time constructively managing their units and risk them falling apart. Plus most of the units are merc outfits who aren't interested in forming alliances, just farming c-bills from the fattest contracts each week.

Weird, house-marik.com has had no trouble getting it's dozen+ loyalist units on the same page, and reach out to over a half dozen merc units with varying lengths of contracts and all have been really receptive to working together.

We've also become part of the first and firmest alliance so far in the game with House Liao, and were able to spread the word quickly and effectively to PUBs and un-linked Merc Units of that non-aggression agreement.

All the while, making it known clearly, and in no uncertain terms, that every inch of dirt is going to be a fight, and have been giving as good as we get.

Sounds to me that the Clans problem being able to advance, is internal, and nothing to do with the game.

[100mile]

Davions success so far can be directly traced to our ability to coordinate our units with in our own faction between our Unit leaders. It can also be traced to our ability and willingness to work with other faction leadership as allies.....i realize its a Novel thought that coordination might work in a team work based game.... ...but it seems to...

[ApolloKaras]

100mile, on 19 December 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

Davions success so far can be directly traced to our ability to coordinate our units with in our own faction between our Unit leaders. It can also be traced to our ability and willingness to work with other faction leadership as allies.....i realize its a Novel thought that coordination might work in a team work based game.... ...but it seems to...

Helps to have help too :-)

~Saxie -MS-

[Monkey Lover]

Sandpit, on 19 December 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

i dont' have vendettas, etc.

ROFL

[InspectorG]

Mystere, on 19 December 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

I disagree. Planets are not like castles, whose inhabitants can eventually be starved to death. This assumes of course that the planet in question is habitable.

As such, if you want this damned stinking piece of rock of mine, you're going to have to take it ... or die trying.

I see the utility in that, and i wouldnt mind.

Im just suggesting things to get more utility out of the map.

The cut-off aspect could represent supply lines cut, drop ships denied, etc.

BTW if we wants your rocks we takes them!!! We just happen to have a Bear overpopulation to cull first. That and the distractions at the local ale house.

[oldradagast]

Monkey Lover, on 19 December 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

ROFL

Given that Sandy's currently registering as an AI that fails the Turing Test, he might be telling the truth. Spam-bots don't have vendettas... or much in the way of posting skills.

As for CW being a zero-sum game, there are two sides to that:

1) Yes, it must be - there are not limitless worlds to conquer: In the end, PGI can't really allow factions to be permanently wiped out of the game. You'd soon get a steamroller effect - with every win, the winning side grows stronger - until halfway through, the outcome would already be decided and what's the point? While an argument could be made that this is realistic - it certainly does happen in real warfare - it's not really fun.

Resetting the map periodically would help, sure, though that's risky because it can defeat any sense of achievement. Reset it too soon or often and people lose any interest in playing... but reset it rarely, and the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

Somewhere, they were tossing around the idea of changing contract prices to favor the losing side... that works, sort of... but it may not appeal to the more Lore dedicated folks, who need to be factored in since they were a good chunk of the intended audience for CW. Think of it this way: would you defend a planet of your hated roleplaying enemy even if the contract price was doubled? Some folks might, others wouldn't.

Still, in the end, if the ONLY goal is conquering planets, than CW must remain a zero-sum game in the long run.

2) It doesn't have to be: allow for results beyond planets changing hands: Okay, we played through a season of CW, various people won and lost, and then the map is reset. At that point, one could say it's zero-sum, and what was the point?

This would be an opportunity for PGI to add more achievements or similar unlocks to the game. The key would be so that they would be rewarded based upon doing great things in CW and would NOT be dependent upon the current map state or the map at "the end" of CW / that CW season, etc. Ideas include titles, prizes, cockpit items, cbills, and even MC for things like: defense against overwhelming odds, holding onto a planet for a record amount of time, "blitzkrieg" swift advances as the attacker, etc.

Give folks targets they can shoot for - achievements to earn - in each season of CW, and it won't matter as much if the map does get reset now and then or if the war never ends because of changing contract values.

Edited by oldradagast, 19 December 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[MischiefSC]

part of what we're seeing was a product of zerg swarming and poor hitreg meaning that groups who understood how to exploit both could just roll victories while defense was harder. Notice how you're seeing steady exchanges of territory.

Let's let things settle. If maps need to change faster than they can increase the number of 'cycles', speeding up the rate at which planets change hands. People getting stomped offering better contract payouts are realistic and to be expected. Then again to get those payouts you actually need to WIN, so playing for a losing team isn't going to be a good long term investment for anyone.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Panzerbjorn, on 19 December 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

So after a little over a week now of playing with the new CW beta and struggling over the same planets day after day after day, one thing is starting to become very apparent: CW appears to be a Zero-Sum Game. That is, at the end of the day the 'perfect' balance between IS and Clan mechs combined with an overall balance in numbers and quality of mech pilots in all factions means that there can be no sweeping invasion or even 'slow crawl' invasion of the clans into IS space.

Those of us in clans have no distinct (let alone slight) advantage in attacking the IS worlds in MWO as it's implemented now. In the original game lore, the sweeping success of the Clan Invasions was due to superior technology and MechWarriors. Since we have neither worth noting, I don't foresee any way for the clans to "shove in" to IS space in any meaningful way. We like to think we're the better players but how likely would it actually be for the clans to recruit all of the best MechWarriors in MWO along with none of the worst? Ultimately our clan units like CGBI and CWI have absolutely no control over public players joining our factions and taking actions in our name, and we have no control over the quality, direction or coordination of such players (or even other units).

I simply don't see how a clan invasion is likely or even really possible given the current rules and balance of the game.

Also, has anyone noticed how House Davion is pretty much just annihilating everything around their borders? How does PGI intend to maintain any semblance of faction balance?

Pretty odd for me as well. The Wolves seem to be making good progress. I think we only failed to capture 1 planet so far. I also think Jade Falcon has managed to take most of its invasion planets as well. In fact, only Smoke Jaguar has been struggling mostly because they just don't have the numbers to go up against Kurita.

The thing is, you only have a zero sum situation when your talking equal quality units. Clan Wolf fortunately has a very strong faction community with at least half a dozen extremely strong, and well coordinated units so until the IS gets it in gear and more strong units come to the fore instead of PUGs and Casuals, we are going to continue to march forward.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 19 December 2014 - 01:01 PM.