20517 replies to this topic

[CK16]

If anyone has access right now to Field Manual Updates and Combat Operations (at work here :/)? Can someone please look up the Diamond Sharks and get the name of the Shark who won the Jade Falcon's Trial of Grievance because of the Mk II and other battlemech designs? He bid only battlemechs to prove it's the Warriors not the mechs sorta deal?

Might have a hero idea here!

Edited by CK16, 30 June 2016 - 08:10 AM.

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 30 June 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

If anyone has access right now to Field Manual Updates and Combat Operations (at work here :/)? Can someone please look up the Diamond Sharks and get the name of the Shark who won the Jade Falcon's Trial of Grievance because of the Mk II and other battlemech designs? He bid only battlemechs to prove it's the Warriors not the mechs sorta deal?

Might have a hero idea here!

I'm inclined to go with SaKahn Angus Labov, as he was known to say it was the warrior not the mech that made the difference... and he was caught red handed selling unaltered Undine battle armor suits to the AFFS, this would lead to censure by the Grand Councle, followed quickly by premeditated murder execution by the newly elected IllKahn....

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Angus_Labov

[CK16]

Metus regem, on 30 June 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

I'm inclined to go with SaKahn Angus Labov, as he was known to say it was the warrior not the mech that made the difference... and he was caught red handed selling unaltered Undine battle armor suits to the AFFS, this would lead to censure by the Grand Councle, followed quickly by premeditated murder execution by the newly elected IllKahn....

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Angus_Labov

Hmmm sounds familiar, good chance it is. Could be a good back story to drive tell hero portion. If he piloted the Mk II in the trial. I am no expert on sharks here, so what was there combat style? Like Ghost Beas fast, massive fire power, aggressive quick kills. Nova Cats marksmanship, ect? Loadout that could rival the flexibility in a trial to that of an Omni mech? Maybe something wtih a huge knock out punch? A 4 UAC 5 based? How he would have this mech so quick, would be having it right off the factory line in this configuration just for this trial kinda deal? Being SaKahn he would have the weight to get any refit or mech made like this rather quickly I am sure lol.

Edited by CK16, 30 June 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[Metus regem]

CK16, on 30 June 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Hmmm sounds familiar, good chance it is. Could be a good back story to drive tell hero portion. If he piloted the Mk II in the trial. I am no expert on sharks here, so what was there combat style? Like Ghost Beas fast, massive fire power, aggressive quick kills. Nova Cats marksmanship, ect? Loadout that could rival the flexibility in a trial to that of an Omni mech? Maybe something wtih a huge knock out punch? A 4 UAC 5 based? How he would have this mech so quick, would be having it right off the factory line in this configuration just for this trial kinda deal? Being SaKahn he would have the weight to get any refit or mech made like this rather quickly I am sure lol.

Not much is given on him as a Warrior, mostly as a merchant... so if I had to guess, I would say a more frugal armament. He was also noted as being more of a long term planner, rather than short term, so we can expect to see weapons that would be better later in a match, if I had to guess, this is how I think he'd run a Mk. II

Spoiler

Angus Labov's Mk.II

Mass: 90 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-D-A
Production Year: 3065
Cost: 24,112,900 C-Bills
Battle Value: 3,181

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 360 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 Gauss Rifle
1 LB 20-X AC
5 ER Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 138 points 4.50
Internal Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 360 16.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 3 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT 6.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 14(28) 4.00
Gyro: Standard 4.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 249 13.00
Armor Locations: 4 LT, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL
CASE Locations: LT, LA, RA 0.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 29 40
Center Torso (rear) 10
L/R Torso 19 28
L/R Torso (rear) 10
L/R Arm 15 25
L/R Leg 19 32

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser HD 5 1 1.00
2 ER Medium Lasers CT 10 2 2.00
ER Medium Laser RT 5 1 1.00
Targeting Computer RT - 6 6.00
ER Medium Laser LT 5 1 1.00
Gauss Rifle RA 1 6 12.00
LB 20-X AC LA 6 9 12.00
@LB 20-X (Slug) (5) LT - 1 1.00
@Gauss Rifle (16) RA - 2 2.00
@LB 20-X (Cluster) (5) LA - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 8 Points: 32
4/2j 6 7 2 0 4 0 Structure: 5
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, FLK 1/1/0

That set up gives him long range punch with Gauss + TC combo, and close range murder with the LB-20+5 ERML, firing everything would leave him at +4 heat, just under the -1mp. How ever due to the bracket nature of this build, he wouldn't be using the GR when he's using the LB-20+5ERML, meaning that once he's in close and walking he can use everything but the GR and be at +4 heat.

Edited by Metus regem, 30 June 2016 - 09:41 AM.

[CK16]

Found the insert.



No conclusive evidence I guess :/

Edited by CK16, 30 June 2016 - 03:42 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

CK16, on 30 June 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Found the insert.



No conclusive evidence I guess :/

However, it should be noted that the very next page (that is, page 59) of Field Manual: Updates states:
"The furor over HarJel pales next to the outright disbelief and anger as the Diamond Sharks continue their plans to supply the Inner Sphere with military technology. In 3066, they unveiled the Mad Cat Mk II. Based on the popular Clan Timber Wolf design, the Sharks kept its Inner Sphere designation, as they intend to sell it specifically within Inner Sphere borders. Unlike the Ha Otoko, the Mad Cat Mk II is not a stripped-down version, but incorporates fully functional Clan technology (and a service contract that includes Diamond Shark technicians to keep it running at peak performance). Diamond Shark arguments that the BattleMech showcases only old Clan equipment, nothing cutting-edge, will not forestall challenges for long."

It is also stated (on page 59 of Field Manual: Updates) that "[Alpha Galaxy's] warriors have gotten few chances recently for heavy action, but that is expected to change in the next few months as the first challenges come over the Mad Cat Mk II (and Warhammer IIC) programs."

If the Mad Cat Mk II was "unveiled" ("show[n] or announce[d] publicly for the first time") in 3066, then it could not have taken place in the Trial against the Falcons in 3061.
Additionally, Field Manual: Updates is written from the viewpoint of 3067 ("...including a history section that will bridge the gap between where the appropriate field manual left off and the current year of 3067..."), so the statement that the first challenges over the Mad Cat Mk II would be forthcoming serves to further highlight its newness (and reinforce the point that it had been introduced only recently, relative to the FM's viewpoint).

That would seem to be fairly conclusive, yes?

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 02 July 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

However, it should be noted that the very next page (that is, page 59) of Field Manual: Updates states:
"The furor over HarJel pales next to the outright disbelief and anger as the Diamond Sharks continue their plans to supply the Inner Sphere with military technology. In 3066, they unveiled the Mad Cat Mk II. Based on the popular Clan Timber Wolf design, the Sharks kept its Inner Sphere designation, as they intend to sell it specifically within Inner Sphere borders. Unlike the Ha Otoko, the Mad Cat Mk II is not a stripped-down version, but incorporates fully functional Clan technology (and a service contract that includes Diamond Shark technicians to keep it running at peak performance). Diamond Shark arguments that the BattleMech showcases only old Clan equipment, nothing cutting-edge, will not forestall challenges for long."

It is also stated (on page 59 of Field Manual: Updates) that "[Alpha Galaxy's] warriors have gotten few chances recently for heavy action, but that is expected to change in the next few months as the first challenges come over the Mad Cat Mk II (and Warhammer IIC) programs."

If the Mad Cat Mk II was "unveiled" ("show[n] or announce[d] publicly for the first time") in 3066, then it could not have taken place in the Trial against the Falcons in 3061.
Additionally, Field Manual: Updates is written from the viewpoint of 3067 ("...including a history section that will bridge the gap between where the appropriate field manual left off and the current year of 3067..."), so the statement that the first challenges over the Mad Cat Mk II would be forthcoming serves to further highlight its newness (and reinforce the point that it had been introduced only recently, relative to the FM's viewpoint).

That would seem to be fairly conclusive, yes?

Potentially. Or they had been field testing it within their own touman exclusively for 5 years, which is not an unreasonable development time (just look at military procurement today, lol) and it was "released to the public" in 3066.

One factor does not conclusively rule out the other, TBH. That said, it's availability would be next to nil until 3066, and even then exceedingly rare.

And while the MW titles are non canon (including this one?) the mkII does appear in 3063 in the MW4 chronology? So while it might not be canon available in 3061 in TT, I would say that they would have to have been available in 3061 in Mechwarrior Chronology.... given travel time, scarcity, etc.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 July 2016 - 04:36 AM.

[Odanan]

All hail the Linebacker!

[Tordin]

Need more color.

[Odanan]

Tordin, on 07 July 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

Need more color.

I know... but that's the solution of the puzzle PGI scatered over all social media.

Easy for us who expected the Linebacker already.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 07 July 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

I know... but that's the solution of the puzzle PGI scatered over all social media.

Easy for us who expected the Linebacker already.

My question is, how many Linebackers once bought are going to be sitting in dark and dust parts of the hanger after they get elited? I mean the engine is outside of the Goldilocks zone, to the point where it packs similar fire power to a mech 10t lighter.

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 07 July 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

My question is, how many Linebackers once bought are going to be sitting in dark and dust parts of the hanger after they get elited? I mean the engine is outside of the Goldilocks zone, to the point where it packs similar fire power to a mech 10t lighter.

As I said. About the best you can manage in a Linebacker will be 6x ASRM4 and 2 ERSLas or Flamers. Thazzit. I can see it being useful in FW as a base rush mech, but... even then? I mean, at least it would pose a threat with that configuration. However, forget about ballistic based configurations or laser based ones outside of medium laser spam.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 July 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

As I said. About the best you can manage in a Linebacker will be 6x ASRM4 and 2 ERSLas or Flamers. Thazzit. I can see it being useful in FW as a base rush mech, but... even then? I mean, at least it would pose a threat with that configuration. However, forget about ballistic based configurations or laser based ones outside of medium laser spam.

It's just I see it competing for deck space right along with both the Hellbringer and the Ebon Jaguar, both of them offer a lot of versatility on the same 65t platform, for only a minor speed loss (5/8 vs 6/9).....

And I'm sorry, but I don't see 104km/h after speed tweek, as a real "Generator rush" speed... I mean sure, it's quick for the weight bracket it's in, and like you Pariah, I think Clan mechs work best, when being pocket versions of the next weight class, rather than over weight of the weight class down...

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 07 July 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

It's just I see it competing for deck space right along with both the Hellbringer and the Ebon Jaguar, both of them offer a lot of versatility on the same 65t platform, for only a minor speed loss (5/8 vs 6/9).....

And I'm sorry, but I don't see 104km/h after speed tweek, as a real "Generator rush" speed... I mean sure, it's quick for the weight bracket it's in, and like you Pariah, I think Clan mechs work best, when being pocket versions of the next weight class, rather than over weight of the weight class down...

You're making it real freakin' hard to rationalize an obviously poor mech, here, Metus. I mean, some people actually like the thing. I am trying really hard to construct a scenario that the mech is actually justified.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 07 July 2016 - 08:11 AM.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 July 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

You're making it real freakin' hard to rationalize an obviously poor mech, here, Metus. I mean, some people actually like the thing. I am trying really hard to construct a scenario that the mech is actually justified.

Sorry?

But I thought you Clanners hate waste... the Linebacker to me looks like a waste or resources... As pointed out in another thread, one of the builds that was being touted as 'good' for the Linebacker I could put on my freaking Locust, mind you not run as cold, but still mounted on a F***ing Locust!

Then again this is a Clan Wolf mech, Clan Wolf has always been.... Special

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 07 July 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Sorry?

But I thought you Clanners hate waste... the Linebacker to me looks like a waste or resources... As pointed out in another thread, one of the builds that was being touted as 'good' for the Linebacker I could put on my freaking Locust, mind you not run as cold, but still mounted on a F***ing Locust!

Then again this is a Clan Wolf mech, Clan Wolf has always been.... Special

Unfortunately, while they like to innovate, they rarely master what they create. I mean, they got lucky with the Timberwolf, I guess.

Meanwhile Clan Nova Cat produced the Shadow Cat, the Huntsman, the Wendigo, the Cave Lion, the Sphinx.... All of which poop solid plated platinum. High quality mech goodness!

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 July 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

Unfortunately, while they like to innovate, they rarely master what they create. I mean, they got lucky with the Timberwolf, I guess.

Meanwhile Clan Nova Cat produced the Shadow Cat, the Huntsman, the Wendigo, the Cave Lion, the Sphinx.... All of which poop solid plated platinum. High quality mech goodness!

Well Clan Wolf got lucky a few times...


Elementals (First to combine the Ghost Bear / Hell's Horses Breeding program with Goliath Scorpion power suits)
Woodsman
Timber Wolf
Dire Wolf


Beyond that though, they are kind of ridding the coat tails of their ancestors that managed to get the Kerensky blood line....

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 07 July 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

Well Clan Wolf got lucky a few times...


Elementals (First to combine the Ghost Bear / Hell's Horses Breeding program with Goliath Scorpion power suits)
Woodsman
Timber Wolf
Dire Wolf


Beyond that though, they are kind of ridding the coat tails of their ancestors that managed to get the Kerensky blood line....

And shamelessly utilizing Nova Cat ER laser technology in everything.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 July 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

And shamelessly utilizing Nova Cat ER laser technology in everything.

Every clan does that though...

I prefer to be a bit more methodical in my approach... it's the Ghost Bear in me, adapt new tech as required, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. usually. Also I have an understanding that if it ships together, it is meant to work together, hence why I like Super Stock mechs.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 07 July 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Then again this is a Clan Wolf mech, Clan Wolf has always been.... Special

As Wolf, Linebacker will come with a special feature: Plot Armor.