20517 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Brain Cancer, on 08 August 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...r%27s_Privilege as the link up there is busted.

FLG 01, on 08 August 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Yes, I did provide the source. It is the short story A Soldier’s Priviledge. The ECM e.g. is featured on page 3.
But you have to forgive me that I will not break copyright laws and post the whole story

Edit: ah, I see the link did not work. Still, source is this story.

worked for me..... ?

(but why am I looking at midgetporn again?)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 August 2016 - 02:10 PM.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 August 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

worked for me..... ?

(but why am I looking at midgetporn again?)

The better question is,"why again Bishop?"

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 08 August 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

The better question is,"why again Bishop?"

the again, is not to the midgetporn, but to the link itself as in "someone tell me why I'm doing this, again?"

NVM

[Kael Posavatz]

FLG 01, on 08 August 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Yes, I did provide the source. It is the short story A Soldier’s Priviledge. The ECM e.g. is featured on page 3.
But you have to forgive me that I will not break copyright laws and post the whole story

Edit: ah, I see the link did not work. Still, source is this story.

First, allow me to apologize for the 'rumor-mongering' crack. It was needlessly confrontational and unjust.

However, you misunderstand the point I was trying to make. I do not question that this would certainly be a valid example of a hero mech as PGI does try to used customized variants from lore.

Allow me to rephrase.

There are a great many mechs made famous by those who piloted them. Many of them are customized models (or configurations, if it is an OmniMech). Do you have any source that indicates that a "Grasshopper Hero Mech" is being discussed/planned/implemented by PGI?

If so, then it is a "possible Grasshopper hero mech".

If not, then it is merely "a canonical mech that could be considered when PGI gets around to making a hero mech."

[Archangel.84]

FLG 01, on 08 August 2016 - 12:00 PM, said:

Reading Betrayal of Ideals should cure Clan madness. It is a mandatory read anyway and it will be republished as a stand-alone novel this year, so no excuses.

Eh, I've never liked Betrayal of Ideas to be honest. Felt like way too much of an overcorrection from the earlier stuff like McEvedy's "nutbar psycho" reputation into "Wolverines are the lost Davions of the Clans and were too good for this sinful universe."

Who invented new mechs first? Wolverines.
Who really invented Omnimechs but had their credit stolen? Wolverines.
Who wanted a return to democracy and then just to be left alone to go home? Wolverines.
Who really bombed Dehra Dun? Certainly not the Wolverines! Also, Joyce Merrell didn't die there.

I'm fine with there being "more to the story" than was previously hinted at and I always wanted the 'lost story' of the Wolverines told, but turning all of the Clans except McEvedy's Wolverines (and Merrell) into mustachioed bad-guys was... just boring to me. And I really like Pardoe's stuff overall.

Edited by Archangel.84, 08 August 2016 - 03:16 PM.

[FLG 01]

Archangel.84, on 08 August 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

Eh, I've never liked Betrayal of Ideas to be honest. Felt like way too much of an overcorrection from the earlier stuff like McEvedy's "nutbar psycho" reputation into "Wolverines are the lost Davions of the Clans and were too good for this sinful universe."

Who invented new mechs first? Wolverines.
Who really invented Omnimechs but had their credit stolen? Wolverines.
Who wanted a return to democracy and then just to be left alone to go home? Wolverines.
Who really bombed Dehra Dun? Certainly not the Wolverines! Also, Joyce Merrell didn't die there.

I'm fine with there being "more to the story" than was previously hinted at and I always wanted the 'lost story' of the Wolverines told, but turning all of the Clans except McEvedy's Wolverines (and Merrell) into mustachioed bad-guys was... just boring to me. And I really like Pardoe's stuff overall.

It was a bit too much, I agree.

Kael Posavatz, on 08 August 2016 - 03:08 PM, said:

First, allow me to apologize for the 'rumor-mongering' crack. It was needlessly confrontational and unjust.

However, you misunderstand the point I was trying to make. I do not question that this would certainly be a valid example of a hero mech as PGI does try to used customized variants from lore.

Allow me to rephrase.

There are a great many mechs made famous by those who piloted them. Many of them are customized models (or configurations, if it is an OmniMech). Do you have any source that indicates that a "Grasshopper Hero Mech" is being discussed/planned/implemented by PGI?

If so, then it is a "possible Grasshopper hero mech".

If not, then it is merely "a canonical mech that could be considered when PGI gets around to making a hero mech."

It is the second, of course, which I feel is appropriate for this thread as it is in no small part dedicated to providing ideas for Mechs which could be implemented by PGI.

Since Roark's unique Grasshopper has not been mentioned, afaik, and since it would be quite a nice being a fully canonical special loadout I wanted to bring it up.

I was not aware that my use of "possible" means PGI is planning/discussing/implementing it. Sorry. I meant the Mech fits the current tech available in MWO unlike most other unique Grasshopper variants. You know, in case of the Grasshopper, the list of canonically customized Mechs using tech MWO can handle is very short. In fact, I think Roark's is the only one, which is yet another reason for me to bring it up.

[Kael Posavatz]

Archangel.84, on 08 August 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

Eh, I've never liked Betrayal of Ideas to be honest. Felt like way too much of an overcorrection from the earlier stuff like McEvedy's "nutbar psycho" reputation into "Wolverines are the lost Davions of the Clans and were too good for this sinful universe."

"Mr. Worf, villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged." Picard to Worf, "The Drumhead"

One thing I really liked about this whole period of Clan lore was how ambiguous it was. The Clans were pretty invested in making the Not-Named the heavy in this little drama, but what we actually see in the source material leaves a great deal to imagine what happened, even with Kell's little 'holo scene'.

Betrayal of Ideals is so blatantly over-the-top as to defy belief. For one thing, there is no mention of Strana Mechty being bombarded, or nukes flying all over the place. One nuke, singular, is what the pre-existing source material listed, and given how the Clans view nuclear weapons (partially because of how the Not-Named used them), additional nukes only give additional evidence of the Not-Named's perfidy, and yet was somehow expunged. And Barbados was not a small thing. You are not talking about a few dozen generals agreeing to bury the matter, but thousands of front line-troops agreeing to go along with it.

There is an old saying about how three can keep a secret of two are dead. But here we're talking about the crews of all those warships, and the dropships, and all those front-line clusters (plus their support personnel)...

The two key figures were so incredibly polarized that one was deprived of any redeeming value or human characteristics, while the other was so noble as to beyond the scope of humanity.

FLG 01, on 08 August 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

It is the second, of course, which I feel is appropriate for this thread as it is in no small part dedicated to providing ideas for Mechs which could be implemented by PGI.

Thanks much.

Honestly, this is not generally a thread I visit very often. I got pulled into it by the implications of the potential release of the Mad Cat Mk II. Sometimes terminology can become very precise when a thread gets long, and in ways that outsiders aren't aware of. So when I saw your post I just sort of paused and went whaaat?

The last time we had a hero mech independent of a mech pack was with the catapult as part of the rescale. The last time before that was...well, it's been a while. I want to say the Top Dog, but I don't remember at this point.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 08 August 2016 - 04:12 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Archangel.84, on 08 August 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

Eh, I've never liked Betrayal of Ideas to be honest. Felt like way too much of an overcorrection from the earlier stuff like McEvedy's "nutbar psycho" reputation into "Wolverines are the lost Davions of the Clans and were too good for this sinful universe."

Who invented new mechs first? Wolverines.
Who really invented Omnimechs but had their credit stolen? Wolverines.
Who wanted a return to democracy and then just to be left alone to go home? Wolverines.
Who really bombed Dehra Dun? Certainly not the Wolverines! Also, Joyce Merrell didn't die there.

I'm fine with there being "more to the story" than was previously hinted at and I always wanted the 'lost story' of the Wolverines told, but turning all of the Clans except McEvedy's Wolverines (and Merrell) into mustachioed bad-guys was... just boring to me. And I really like Pardoe's stuff overall.

sounds like the norm, though TBH, I honestly look at the "mainline" Battletech Books the way one was supposed to take 300. As propaganda for their side of the story more than "fact". Because sadly the pulp fiction tropes are strong in the Btech universe. I actually prefer the secondary narrative sin many cases because they seem slightly more divorced from the silliness (although most of the writers still go way to monty haul with their pet units.)

I'd say Wolves on the Border stands out among Btech novels because the window it casts on the Powers That Be in the Combine... only 1-2 are 1 dimensional characters with limited motivations (and those people do exist) such as Samsonov. But Takashi's motivations and inner workings are much more fascinating, and oftentimes the Protagonist, Jaime Wolf, is the one who comes off thick. (I wish the relationship between Takashi and Theodore had been as nuanced in Heir to the Dragon)

That said, I'll probably still read it, just as I have most mainline Btech fiction, simply to "fill in the blanks". Heck..I read every MWDA novel...how bad can it be?

[Kael Posavatz]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 August 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

Heck..I read every MWDA novel...how bad can it be?

Now that the Bishop has finished taunting the Evil One's demonic prophet Murphy...

Um, depending on how you read it, it either kills more brain cells that DA, but less painfully, or it kills fewer brain cells, but it draws out each ones' demise for maximum agony.

pick one.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 08 August 2016 - 04:42 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kael Posavatz, on 08 August 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

The two key figures were so incredibly polarized that one was deprived of any redeeming value or human characteristics, while the other was so noble as to beyond the scope of humanity.

So typical Blaine Lee Pardoe? I mean in the mainstream novels, I found no character so egregiously overwritten and saccharine virtuous as Archer Christofori. Who of course had the magical clantech lasers, etc. People say Victor and Morgan Kell got plot armor? Good god. The exploits in these books make Camachos Comanceros look believable.

Though..just to thoroughly piss everyone off? The sainted Way of the Clans novels? BORING. Aidan Pryde is just as overwritten and ludicrous as Phelan, Victor, etc.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 August 2016 - 04:52 PM.

[Archangel.84]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 August 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

sounds like the norm, though TBH, I honestly look at the "mainline" Battletech Books the way one was supposed to take 300...

You know, could be you're right there and Betrayal of Ideals is just a much more recent read for me. Betrayal of Ideals aside, I haven't read the mainline BT fiction since I was... in high school? Nah, early college, but either way before 21. I'm down for some super-pulpy comic-booky fiction in general, but that one just struck me as way over the top. Like, Aidan Pryde + Phelan Kell + Kai Allard-Liao (who I will ALWAYS love dammit ) over the top. But YMMV!

You know, I think the only Charrette BT I've read is "Wolf Pack" - I really need to get around to Wolf Pack and Heir to the Dragon.

Of the later pre-Jihad novels, I think my favorites are still The Capellan Solution, even being a St. Ives fanboy - Coleman made me hate/love Sun Tzu and the St. Ives point of view characters ****** up at best.

I generally agree about Christofori and Way of the Clans (Marthe is the superior Pryde in every way), but I'll fight you over Camacho's Caballeros cowboy-ninja exploits.

Edited by Archangel.84, 08 August 2016 - 06:12 PM.

[FLG 01]

Kael Posavatz, on 08 August 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

The last time we had a hero mech independent of a mech pack was with the catapult as part of the rescale. The last time before that was...well, it's been a while.

I know. Isn't that sad?

I would love to get new variants of Mechs we already have, the KGC-001 e.g., but I am afraid PGI cannot make money with them. However Hero Mechs sell for MC and I hope the Catapult Hero starts something.

To be honest, after the MAD-IIC and its 5 (!) non-canonical variants I will be grateful for every new canonical variant.
The Grasshopper does not have a Hero, and Roark's Grasshopper would be a great choice for fans of the BT-lore and it might be quite useful.

[Kael Posavatz]

FLG 01, on 08 August 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

I know. Isn't that sad?

I would love to get new variants of Mechs we already have, the KGC-001 e.g., but I am afraid PGI cannot make money with them. However Hero Mechs sell for MC and I hope the Catapult Hero starts something.

To be honest, after the MAD-IIC and its 5 (!) non-canonical variants I will be grateful for every new canonical variant.
The Grasshopper does not have a Hero, and Roark's Grasshopper would be a great choice for fans of the BT-lore and it might be quite useful.

And that's why I did not like the MAD IIC package PGI put together. They made a lot of the Origins as well (They're the ones with letter-designations rather than numerals). About the only one that sees any significant playtime is the Hunchback IIC-A, and that is "just another Clan energy boat". They shipped without quirks, and many are still notably lackluster. I'm hoping I don't see more of the same, but not really expecting it.

And we haven't seen a light mech since December 2015 (Jenner IIC), October for the Wolfhound. The Locust IIC or the Fire Falcon both have lots of variants that don't need advanced weapons.

Or...a list.

But you have a point about the Grasshopper. A good one. For that matter, Russ said...I want to say it was a townhall last November, that he wanted the first Clan hero mech to be Aiden Pryde's Timberwolf. And he said more recently that he wants to get to an alternating release schedule for mech packs so why not IS hero opposite a Clan package and the reverse? There are still a lot of IS mechs without hero variants, and none of the Wave I-III omnis, nor the Origins, have hero variants. For that matter, put together mastery bundles. I still have new players coming into my unit's teamspeak who ask about clan Mastery bundles as a way of getting started.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 08 August 2016 - 06:52 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 August 2016 - 12:48 PM, said:

I don't blame either for the Clans. I simply said they appeal to the same mindest of confusing poorly written, flashy piles of pooh for being good. DB followed even more predictable episodic structures than even Voltron did...and you KNEW every episode was going to end with forming Voltron and using the Flaming Sword to cut the Robeast in half!

As opposed to good, well written (and generally better illustrated) anime like Appleseed, Akira, Patlabor, New Domnion Tank Police, Ghost in the Shell (though stand alone complex was crap) Macross, Votoms, etc, etc, etc.

Indicative of the same 90s mentality to at overhyped Wolverine and Punisher as the supposed end all be all characters of Marvel, brought sword swinging Gundams to Battletech and largely ruined rock music til the middle of the 2000s.

(Yes, I generally wish that the decade from 1994-2003 could be wiped from existence, as it was generally a creative graveyard filled with realyl limp offerings like NuMetal, DBZ, etc. Not that I have any kind of strongly opinionated bias about it or anything, though.)

the thing I loathed about dbz was how it could take over a month for one fight -.-

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 August 2016 - 08:38 PM, said:

the thing I loathed about dbz was how it could take over a month for one fight -.-

i really loathed the crappy lazy animation style

[CK16]

So did Russ say we get Warhammer IIC next or IS mech?

Edit: damn phones auto fill.

Edited by CK16, 09 August 2016 - 06:19 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

CK16, on 09 August 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

So did Russ day we get Warhammer IIC next or IS mech?

I bloody hope it's a god damn IS mech.
Because if they decided to vomit out any more clan mechs in a row, i'm gonna flip.

[Kael Posavatz]

He said we needed another clan mech to 'catch up' with the IS getting the Alpha lance and PHX.

There was also a comment that someone(s) had bought 25,000 IS packages and they couldn't be wrong. (Depending on how you read that someone either bought 25k Marauder packages, 25k Alpha Lance packages, or 25k IS packages of all kinds including Phoenix. Kind of sad if the later. If the former, this game is bringing in so much that we shouldn't be having the issues we are having. So...I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Alpha Lance was what he was referring to).

So, I'm going to prognosticate and say going forward PGI will start alternating IS and Clan mech packages. I'll go so far as to say that he may want to release IIC variants of the Alpha Lance, possibly in the same order as the IS originals (Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, Archer). If he does he will run into...problems when it comes around to the Archer IIC.

Or maybe we could see a light mech? We haven't had one of those in a while. Stinger, Wasp, for the IS. Locust IIC, Fire Falcon for the Clans. Unless they got that engine-thing fixed. Then Flea and Fire Moth.

Edited by Kael Posavatz, 09 August 2016 - 07:43 AM.

[CK16]

I don't think there is an Archer IIC is there?

[Juodas Varnas]

CK16, on 09 August 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

I don't think there is an Archer IIC is there?

All of the IICs should be like the Archer IIC.
Non-existent, that is.