20517 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Metus regem, on 20 May 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

More elegant translation:

Metis called it a while ago, the 90t Mk II will likely not twist like the 75t version used too with similar hit boxes the are average at best, this will leave the Mk II either on par or slightly worse than the Marauder IIC in terms of game play.

Wrong it would be fine if this Heavy Handed engine decoupling BS wasn't implemented.

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Wrong it would be fine if this Heavy Handed engine decoupling BS wasn't implemented.

No it wouldn't Imperius. Anyone who isn't completely blinded by the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia can easily see the flaws that will render it to being tier 3 at best.

[Imperius]

Requiemking, on 20 May 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

No it wouldn't Imperius. Anyone who isn't completely blinded by the rose-colored glasses of nostalgia can easily see the flaws that will render it to being tier 3 at best.

Dude have you ever gone positive? I think the pilot is the issue in your balance issues! Season 6 is your only time to go positive...

[Ovion]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

I currently pretty much only play only the dire wolf it's garbage from its original in inception!

Try a different skill build then.

Dire Wolf is one of my main mechs (along with Mad Dog, Firebrand, Kitfox and Locust) and I have been wrecking face with the Dire Wolf in the last few days.
I've had maybe 2-3 matches where it under performed, and a dozen or so with 3+ kills a match.

Edited by Ovion, 20 May 2017 - 04:49 PM.

[Metus regem]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Dude have you ever gone positive? I think the pilot is the issue in your balance issues! Season 6 is your only time to go positive...

Really, going after the person, rather than the argument? That seems weak, even for you.

IThe Marauder IIc beats it out by the weight efficiency of being an 85t platform, in terms to engine size for speed and jumping ability. The hit boxes on the Mk II are both it's greatest strength and weakness. Thatis due to having good sheilding arms that contain the bulk of the firepower.

Due to the things I've mentioned I give the Mk II a solid B+ to A- as far as standing for mech rankings.

Now rather than a personal attack, can you provide an objective counter argument?

[Imperius]

Metus regem, on 20 May 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

Really, going after the person, rather than the argument? That seems weak, even for you.

IThe Marauder IIc beats it out by the weight efficiency of being an 85t platform, in terms to engine size for speed and jumping ability. The hit boxes on the Mk II are both it's greatest strength and weakness. Thatis due to having good sheilding arms that contain the bulk of the firepower.

Due to the things I've mentioned I give the Mk II a solid B+ to A- as far as standing for mech rankings.

Now rather than a personal attack, can you provide an objective counter argument?

It's not a personal attack! I'm tired of Req here spouting nonsense and clearly he's never gone positive. That is a huge fact in understanding where his judgment comes from. From his perspective lights won't ever have enough buffs until he can go positive.

It's not a personal attack it's stats.

I really don't care about people's opinion of where the mech stands. The main issue being discussed is engine decoupling is a bad balance change and an unnecessary nerf for assaults. They are already in a poor state.

[FLG 01]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Dude have you ever gone positive? I think the pilot is the issue in your balance issues! Season 6 is your only time to go positive...

I generally agree with you in that Requiemking exaggerates the weaknesses of the Mad Cat MKII in MWO, and downplays its importance in the lore. (Just like you do the opposite, if you don't mind me saying so).

However arguing ad personam is not the way to go. We need to be level-headed especially in the assessment of fan favourites. I mean be happy, and if you don't want a back and forth about the expectations on the Mech's performance, just leave it be. ...and prove the Mech's worth in the field.

I am still sure it will be a fine assault Mech. Nowhere near the best the Clans have to offer, but strong nonetheless. As far as engine decoupling is concerned, you have to count yourself lucky you won't have to drive the Annihilator.

Sereglach, on 20 May 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

PGI, also, is likely to take the most popular or most well known pilot of any given hero option, rather than a more obscure hero that's more "era appropriate" (not saying that's true in the Assassin's case, just letting you know) which means 3rd and 4th succession war hero options are the more likely candidates for any mech available in that timeframe . . . since that's where more nostalgia lies.

That sounds about right, in theory. However I seriously doubt the great popularity of pilots who have only an obscure TRO-entry like Wilkes. I have not seen the masses of Wilkes-fans demanding his Mech. And those few who knew Wilkes at all usually know the other notable Javelin-pilots too, since they have just the same kind of obscure TRO-entry.

In the end, it all seems rather convenient; just take a name, make up a Mech, and canon be damned. It means losing a lot of flavour, since it effectively reduces the Hero Mech to another special Mech variant without deeper meaning beyond the MC price tag.

Of course, if the community is happy with that I can hardly change it. Does not mean I have to like it, and certainly it does not show great love for the franchise or its lore.


Edit: if the forum's search engine and google's search engine are accurate, the name of Wilkes was brought up once on the forum. Once. In many years. Hardly a fan favourite.

Edited by FLG 01, 20 May 2017 - 05:55 PM.

[Imperius]

FLG 01, on 20 May 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

I generally agree with you in that Requiemking exaggerates the weaknesses of the Mad Cat MKII in MWO, and downplays its importance in the lore. (Just like you do the opposite, if you don't mind me saying so).

However arguing ad personam is not the way to go. We need to be level-headed especially in the assessment of fan favourites. I mean be happy, and if you don't want a back and forth about the expectations on the Mech's performance, just leave it be. ...and prove the Mech's worth in the field.

I am still sure it will be a fine assault Mech. Nowhere near the best the Clans have to offer, but strong nonetheless. As far as engine decoupling is concerned, you have to count yourself lucky you won't have to drive the Annihilator.




That sounds about right, in theory. However I seriously doubt the great popularity of pilots who have only an obscure TRO-entry like Wilkins. I have not seen the masses of Wilkins-fans demanding his Mech. And those few who knew Wilkins at all usually know the other notable Javelin-pilots too, since they have just the same kind of obscure TRO-entry.

In the end, it all seems rather convenient; just take a name, make up a Mech, and canon be damned. It means losing a lot of flavour, since it effectively reduces the Hero Mech to another special Mech variant without deeper meaning beyond the MC price tag.

Of course, if the community is happy with that I can hardly change it. Does not mean I have to like it, and certainly it does not show great love for the franchise or its lore.

I'm still discussing engine decoupling. I brought up the MK II nonsense he's been spouting for months as fact that he clearly doesn't understand this game as well as he thinks he does. I haven't even been fighting with him about that. I basically have ignored him and do have him on ignore. That would be Bishop and CK16 that have been fighting that back and forth.

[Odanan]

Guys, this discussion again?

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 20 May 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

Guys, this discussion again?

It's the gift that keeps on giving. I guess you could think of it like Forum H3rp3s?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 20 May 2017 - 06:08 PM.

[Imperius]

Odanan, on 20 May 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

Guys, this discussion again?

I'm talking about engine decoupling....

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 20 May 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

Guys, this discussion again?

Apparently.....

All I did was mention that going after someone based on their stats is weak. I've got pretty crappy stats on the leader birds, when I do play enough, I'm also T4, but does that really make anything I say less valid? Or my observations tainted? No, because I chose to educate myself about the mechanics of MWO, I've had more comp oriented players walk me through their typical game play level. I am able to hold my own in conversations with McGrail, Quick, Priaha, Bishop and several others about mechanics of game play because I put the time in to learn them.

[Requiemking]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

I'm talking about engine decoupling....

I've been pointing out that engine desync is necessary for returning the inter-weightclass balance MWO once had by removing the very problem that caused us to lose it in the first place.

[Odanan]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

I'm talking about engine decoupling....

Requiemking, on 20 May 2017 - 06:15 PM, said:

I've been pointing out that engine desync is necessary for returning the inter-weightclass balance MWO once had by removing the very problem that caused us to lose it in the first place.

Great, and you guys already said everything you needed. No one will convince no one, so let's change the subject.

[Imperius]

Metus regem, on 20 May 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

Apparently.....

All I did was mention that going after someone based on their stats is weak. I've got pretty crappy stats on the leader birds, when I do play enough, I'm also T4, but does that really make anything I say less valid? Or my observations tainted? No, because I chose to educate myself about the mechanics of MWO, I've had more comp oriented players walk me through their typical game play level. I am able to hold my own in conversations with McGrail, Quick, Priaha, Bishop and several others about mechanics of game play because I put the time in to learn them.

You would be considered an edge case.

Anyone who thinks it is considered a good balance decision to limit the ability to aim to certain weight classes truly does not understand The ramifications that causes. I am by no means a top class assault pilot. I do not invest the time into MWO to pursue reaching the top. However I am above average for someone who has played as little as I have (1775 matches since archived 3348 matches total after 4-5yrs?). I'm still able to kill lights who attempt the circle maneuver. It takes some unique movements to line them up but I still manage.

Now take someone new let's say they purchased a dire wolf because damn it's cool or they got killed by one. They spend all their cadet bonus on the dire wolf go out to the battlefield just to discover they can't turn fast enough to shoot a light. Of course the team left them behind with them traveling at 40-50 kph. 1 v 1 they should have the ability to defend themselves. At no point in the game when put at a 1 v 1 situation should a player be put at the disadvantage of not being able to do the number one basic goal of an FPS and that is to aim. It's totally stupid! The Dire Wolf already couldn't really torso twist damage well so it basically was a slow walking face tanking assault that requires deadly aim to survive most incounters with other assaults.

Needless to say the developers often used the excuse that the games learning curve is too steep for this or that idea. Then they basically release ghost engine 3.0 and useless skill apocalypse.

I just brought a friend into the game sadly at the worst time possible because the skill gap jumped in the wrong direction again.

Odanan, on 20 May 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

Great, and you guys already said everything you needed. No one will convince no one, so let's change the subject.

I was typing while you posted that...

[SuperFunkTron]

Imperius, on 20 May 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

I currently pretty much only play only the dire wolf it's garbage from its original in inception!

I understand that it must be very hard for you when you are struggling to make a mech work, but not all of are suffering with the Dire Wolf nearly as badly as you make it sound. Engine desync did a lot to make it a reasonable alternative to the Kodiak now and that is really the most important factor. You don't have to like it, but if the goal of better balancing assaults against each other was achieved, then not much more than tweaks are needed to improve the situation.

[Imperius]

SuperFunkTron, on 21 May 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

I understand that it must be very hard for you when you are struggling to make a mech work, but not all of are suffering with the Dire Wolf nearly as badly as you make it sound. Engine desync did a lot to make it a reasonable alternative to the Kodiak now and that is really the most important factor. You don't have to like it, but if the goal of better balancing assaults against each other was achieved, then not much more than tweaks are needed to improve the situation.

If you can't turn fast enough to aim and shoot a target then you've failed at balancing an FPS. It already sucked at torso twisting and whatnot. It didn't need more nerfs. The kodiak well that's a different discussion I bet it's still better than a dire. I might load up and check tonight. One thing I do know is I'm stuck with my engine unlike the kodiak. Congrats on balancing it between assaults everything else is a better alternative at the moment. At least in the ability to turn fast enough to shoot.

Edited by Imperius, 21 May 2017 - 08:48 AM.

[Ovion]

Imperius, on 21 May 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

If you can't turn fast enough to aim and shoot a target then you've failed at balancing an FPS. It already sucked at torso twisting and whatnot. It didn't need more nerfs. The kodiak well that's a different discussion I bet it's still better than a dire. I might load up and check tonight. One thing I do know is I'm stuck with my engine unlike the kodiak. Congrats on balancing it between assaults everything else is a better alternative at the moment. At least in the ability to turn fast enough to shoot.

Honestly.... this just sounds like you need to improve.

I, nor any of my group have any complaints about how the Dire Wolf used to move (to get it on target), and with a dip into the Agility Tree it torso twists and gets on point more effectively than it used to.

There comes a point where you can take all the advice in the world, and it just comes down to practice / experience / etc.

[Imperius]

Ovion, on 21 May 2017 - 09:02 AM, said:

Honestly.... this just sounds like you need to improve.

I, nor any of my group have any complaints about how the Dire Wolf used to move (to get it on target), and with a dip into the Agility Tree it torso twists and gets on point more effectively than it used to.

There comes a point where you can take all the advice in the world, and it just comes down to practice / experience / etc.

I think I've already said time and time again it was fine before the great Engine Decoupling! Honestly if it's so great why are there about 10 threads about engine decoupling and 1 dedicated to the Dire awolf and Spirt Bear.

Edited by Imperius, 21 May 2017 - 10:37 AM.

[SuperFunkTron]

Imperius, on 21 May 2017 - 10:36 AM, said:

Honestly if it's so great why are there about 10 threads about engine decoupling and 1 dedicated to the Dire awolf and Spirt Bear.

For the same reasons that people are complaining about the new skill trees: they are too lazy to try it out, don't consider that other people may use varied builds instead of a single cookie cutter for every mech, and for the simple fact that people will always complain.