29 replies to this topic

[Mack1]

I bought into MWO back in CB with the founders and after a great first year I have been appalled a how horrible this game has been developed, I don't need to go into details as even the most defensive fan boys know what a horrible year 2013 was for MWO.

So now we have CW an as much as I enjoy the invasion game mechanics the actual implementation of I is horrible. The queue system is dreadful and this is due to a lack of players, the actual old game modes are full of people, so why are they not playing CW? Well I asked them over a period of two days and they said:

Premades ruin it. And you know what, I totally agree with them. I have dropped in about 8 games and the smallest premade I have seen is 6 people, the most is 9 (my last game) They killed all our mechs before the time elapsed and they only lost about 8 Mechs in all we lost 48 haha

Solution is simple make a invasion mode for the solo queue so premades can fight premades and pugs can enjoy the game.

We all know this won't work as premades hate fighting eachother, they proved this when 12 v 12 premades were introduced....no one played them.

Mark my words, if you do not stop premades facerolling pugs MWO CW will be a flop, it's already struggling yet the pug game mode is busy....proof indeed.

[Mcgral18]

Nah

[Darth Futuza]

So many topics have been created on this and argued about for the past few weeks I'm too bored to respond. Search if you want to know my thoughts.

[Kirtanus]

there are no issues with queues. just look for pop-up windows and dont stay too long in lobby (i leave solo lobby in 2 minutes) and find next match soon.

[t Khrist]

Premades don't ruin CW, they make it. Please don't misunderstand, I'm a co-founder of the Grog Corps, a small group of just over 30 members and our average drop size is a five-man, so I'm not a lobbyist for 12-mans. The entire game mode was designed for groups, preferably larger ones, and solo players were tacked on later in Phase II development so that they would be able to enjoy Invasion Mode to some extent without being left out, and to boost queue size. I understand what you're saying and why it happens, but the fact is CW isn't made for Lone Wolves. In order to get the full experience, without the frustration, you have to join a group. A CW queue for solo players is illogical, and impractical.

[Malk2651]

Having both pugged and 12 man queued CW, your missing some of the details on how it works.
http://mwomercs.com/...e-how-it-works/

Read this to understand how the queue works.

As far as 12 mans not constantly fighting? Not true. They fight each other all the time.

[Kiiyor]

Community warfare was always intended as a grand playground for organized groups. Always.

The devs have mentioned they are looking at ways to relax things for lone players or smaller groups, but I wouldn't expect a whole lot to change, and I wouldn't want it to, despite the fact that I am a solo player.

It's a team game. The pug queues still exist for those unwilling to scratch their paint in CW.

If you want to beat 'em, you have to join 'em.

[Kirkland Langue]

I like that solo's and small groups have the option of filling out teams in CW - but the emphasis should be upon encouraging players to join Units and form groups.

I'd argue that PGI should add "NPC Units" to the game, one for each House/Clan. Every player should either be a "lone wolf" or belong to a Unit. All "Units" should be affiliated with one of the Houses/Clans - and even if they were to change affiliation, they should always be required to be affiliated with someone. Lone Wolves should be able to fight for either Clan or IS teams dropping into whatever battle they want, but do not earn LP and only earn half of the CBills payout for performance or contract.

[Shaka808]

To play some devils advocate if CW is meant for organized groups only then make it organized groups only drop solo drop support for CW 2mans + only.

[Savage Wolf]

PUGs can have plenty of success in CW if they are good and can organize. Tried that a couple of times and it's awesome. Also tried pug teams that couldn't, but that's the pug life. But I have even tried 12 pugs beating a 12 man premade. It's possible.

[GutterBoy5]

Remember this is BETA CW so things will change.

That being said MWO is team based game & needs teams of all sizes . I've done solo drops in CW & haven't found to bad actually got a couple of wins. The problem Ive seen with solo players ,there is to many that have no desire to work with anyone & Rambo charge a whole team ,solo play can work it just needs people to use there brains.

[xengk]

It is possible for a ragtag group of small unit with PUG to beat a larger unit.
You need communication and people's willingness to listen.

Edited by xengk, 20 December 2014 - 03:04 PM.

[GioAvanti]

t Khrist, on 20 December 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Premades don't ruin CW, they make it. Please don't misunderstand, I'm a co-founder of the Grog Corps, a small group of just over 30 members and our average drop size is a five-man, so I'm not a lobbyist for 12-mans. The entire game mode was designed for groups, preferably larger ones, and solo players were tacked on later in Phase II development so that they would be able to enjoy Invasion Mode to some extent without being left out, and to boost queue size. I understand what you're saying and why it happens, but the fact is CW isn't made for Lone Wolves. In order to get the full experience, without the frustration, you have to join a group. A CW queue for solo players is illogical, and impractical.

Yeah and you'll have a dead game soon enough with that logic. Illogical indeed,

[MischiefSC]

I'm at over 12 pug drops today. We've only lost 3, many were against large premades.

The biggest problem is how to motivate pugs to play as a team. It's as much art as science but you need to get everyone onboard with playing to a plan and not being a derp. If someone does derp, you work around it, use them like a distraction and move the plan for the smart/good players around them.

It's a tough transition though. A completely different skillset than what people are used to and that takes some adjustment. My best recommendation is stick with attacks for your faction for a while so that you're likely dropping with other groups and you can learn the tactics and what works. Follow orders, do what they tell you and soldier up and you'll do great.

[Alistair Winter]

Sorry, Mack. The premade master race myth is now officially busted. Sure, the best players in the game in a 12-man group are unstoppable if you're in a pug. But the overwhelming majority of premade groups are not particularly good. They either don't know how to work together as a team, or aren't really concentrating most of the time. Some people just enjoy the ability to shoot the breeze while they're playing.

I think CW has been great, because I've been pugging hardcore the past year (on this account) and haven't really had a chance to meet the guys who stayed in the group queue while I was pugging. Now I finally get to test my skills against premades regularly, not just when I'm grouped up. And there's really not much of a difference.

Being good at MWO is so much more than being coordinated, and pug veterans like myself have had to learn how to improvise and work with the team without TS just from reading the minimap. It's the same as in team sports, a good player will always know how to read the field and make good decisions without direct orders from his coach or team captain. Of course, to beat the best, you do need teamspeak, but to beat the average premade team, you just need a handful of players with mediocre skills and a couple of good players.

Based on your post, it sounds like you just need more games to see the truth for yourself. Trying to get an accurate, objective view of the situation by talking to other people, particularly people who quit playing, is never going to work, for any game.

I for one love the challenge. Maybe it will get worse in time, who knows. Right now, I'm doing well.

Here's one example of a 12 man pug defending FRR from the big bad wolves premades.

Spoiler

[MechaBattler]

They can always scale CW to whatever size the player pool comes to. But that doesn't mean that some overtures shouldn't be made to encourage pugs to join CW. And before people jumps the gun. I'm not talking about balance changes, they shouldn't be snubbed, but I mean more like the Commendation system that me and Mischief talked about in another thread. Possibly a C-bill bonus for pugs. Pugs should be considered as faction grunts who fill the trenches while elite units make critical drops. Granted elite units usually get paid better.

[Vassago Rain]

Are you premad?

[Tennex]

the more organized group takes territory over rag tag group. I see nothing wrong with that.

Not in real military scenario , not in CW

[Vassago Rain]

Tennex, on 20 December 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

the more organized group takes territory over rag tag group. I see nothing wrong with that.

Not in real military scenario , not in CW

In real life, no one fights for fun, but because they have to.
If you might videogame fighting not fun, people leave to play other games.

It's a very poor design if your game doesn't welcome people with time, money, and friends, unless they are this tall and this rich, and have this much time, and are willing to devote X days a week to practice sessions.

[Tennex]

Vassago Rain, on 20 December 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:

In real life, no one fights for fun, but because they have to.
If you might videogame fighting not fun, people leave to play other games.

It's a very poor design if your game doesn't welcome people with time, money, and friends, unless they are this tall and this rich, and have this much time, and are willing to devote X days a week to practice sessions.

Organized groups will always be better than nonorganized, that is just the way it is in any competitive game. Only other solution is to separate them.

There is not much PGI can do artificially to close that gap. We just don't have the player base to add another solo queue to CW or even take the solo fillers out of CW group queue.

They can try to rectify this by adding VOIP which i definitely support, but there is really only going to be slight improvement. Organized unit has familiarity, strategy, and a leadership pyramid.