20 replies to this topic

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ok seriously here is what PGI needs to do.

First, invading a planet shouldn't be about taking out an orbital gun, it should be about capturing territory. That being the case ditch the stupid destroy generator objectives.

Then just make the attack about driving the enemy off the planet or destroying them utterly. Why? because this is what attackers do to win an objective. Simple logic really.

Then you give the defender only 3 waves or 36 mechs against the attacker having 4 waves or 48 mechs. Then if necessary you beef up the defensive positions with more or stronger turrets, maybe toss in a mine field or two and make the orbital gun, a fort where the enemy can fall back on it and hold it till the last man.

Then to add some spice to the game. Make the generators control the turret defenses and minefields so that taking one out, neutralizes a entire section of the defenses, including the man generator at the cannon neutralizing the fort area defenses.

Generator Destruction Incentive, 25k bonus C-bills to everyone on the attacking team per generator destroyed.

Winning conditions:

Attacker: Destroy all enemy mechs
Defender: Destroy all enemy mechs or hold out until timer expires.

Simple, fun, insures everyone is getting a good battle, no gimicky tactics required to win and probably more importantly requires very little modification on PGIs part to make happen. Hell they could probably throw this modification to the system into place in a week.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 21 December 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[Tarogato]

Sounds like Skirmish mode with generator-powered turrets to me.

I like it. Let's add it. We need variety, and this is a quick and effective way to do it.

Could even use Alpine Peaks for this. And Tourmaline. And Terra Therma. Just add dropships and a few more structures and call it a day. =]

[Dawnstealer]

With you on this. Make the battlefield a series of objectives where you have to control them all in sequence to win. If you're the attacker and you don't take the last one before your mechs run out, well, you lose. If you're the defender, you just need to slow the enemy down and whittle them away enough that they can't take the base.

And the gun...

It's a neat idea, and a good idea for a one-off battle, but mechs are the "kings of the battlefield." These bases feel like they were specifically made to repel mechs. Really, they should feel like they were made to repel infantry and tanks - mechs aren't brought to bear until things are really serious.

Imagine the joy of stomping over "tiny" tank traps, or infantry trenches and bunkers shooting at you with MACHINE GUNS. Rather than super turrets with LLs or, worse, ERLLs, you'd actually feel like you were in a war machine that was the pinnacle of its time, rather than in the equivalent of a Pinto.

[Kdogg788]

There are many game modes they can add.

.skirmish mode with a large open middle
.raid star league weapons cache. Modified conquest where one mech would have to remain in zone uploading the data while its lance protects it
.destroy supply convoy
.destroy bridges and other strategic targets
.take a city over district by district
.rescue captured mechs and pilots
.destroy a series of small objectives in a row

-k

[Angel of Annihilation]

Dawnstealer, on 21 December 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

With you on this. Make the battlefield a series of objectives where you have to control them all in sequence to win. If you're the attacker and you don't take the last one before your mechs run out, well, you lose. If you're the defender, you just need to slow the enemy down and whittle them away enough that they can't take the base.

And the gun...

It's a neat idea, and a good idea for a one-off battle, but mechs are the "kings of the battlefield." These bases feel like they were specifically made to repel mechs. Really, they should feel like they were made to repel infantry and tanks - mechs aren't brought to bear until things are really serious.

Imagine the joy of stomping over "tiny" tank traps, or infantry trenches and bunkers shooting at you with MACHINE GUNS. Rather than super turrets with LLs or, worse, ERLLs, you'd actually feel like you were in a war machine that was the pinnacle of its time, rather than in the equivalent of a Pinto.

Oh I agree. I am just thinking about a quick easy fix. Honestly I want real battlefields with each team trying to take and hold objectives. Alpine and Terra Therma would be awesome for this with just few modifications.

[Mystere]

A single purely kill-them-all no-other-objective Skirmish mode fight? Sure. But there should be only exactly one, and in a huge urban environment that looks like this:



In other words, replace River City with Hong Kong's skyline and I'm fine.

Edited by Mystere, 21 December 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Viktor Drake, on 21 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Ok seriously here is what PGI needs to do.

First, invading a planet shouldn't be about taking out an orbital gun, it should be about capturing territory. That being the case ditch the stupid destroy generator objectives.

Then just make the attack about driving the enemy off the planet or destroying them utterly. Why? because this is what attackers do to win an objective. Simple logic really.

Then you give the defender only 3 waves or 36 mechs against the attacker having 4 waves or 48 mechs. Then if necessary you beef up the defensive positions with more or stronger turrets, maybe toss in a mine field or two and make the orbital gun, a fort where the enemy can fall back on it and hold it till the last man.

Then to add some spice to the game. Make the generators control the turret defenses and minefields so that taking one out, neutralizes a entire section of the defenses, including the man generator at the cannon neutralizing the fort area defenses.

Generator Destruction Incentive, 25k bonus C-bills to everyone on the attacking team per generator destroyed.

Winning conditions:

Attacker: Destroy all enemy mechs
Defender: Destroy all enemy mechs or hold out until timer expires.

Simple, fun, insures everyone is getting a good battle, no gimicky tactics required to win and probably more importantly requires very little modification on PGIs part to make happen. Hell they could probably throw this modification to the system into place in a week.

Actually I disagree. The planetary capture needs to be more interesting.

Stage 1-3

LZ initial invasion stage, the current destroy the orbital gun would suffice for such a stage, current or lighter weigh drop limits.

Stage 4-7

The main fighting heaviest drops, assault/skirmish/capture your fighting for control here.

Stage 8-11

Forcing the defender off planet mid range drop weight, both sides have taken casualties much selection is slimmer.

Some sort of Base capture of King of the hill style game mode.

[Angel of Annihilation]

DV McKenna, on 21 December 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Actually I disagree. The planetary capture needs to be more interesting.

Stage 1-3

LZ initial invasion stage, the current destroy the orbital gun would suffice for such a stage, current or lighter weigh drop limits.

Stage 4-7

The main fighting heaviest drops, assault/skirmish/capture your fighting for control here.

Stage 8-11

Forcing the defender off planet mid range drop weight, both sides have taken casualties much selection is slimmer.

Some sort of Base capture of King of the hill style game mode.

Again I am not arguing what CW actually needs to have to be successful in the long run, I am talking about a quick fix to what we have currently that would make CW more fun and meaningful.

[Summon3r]

Viktor Drake, on 21 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Ok seriously here is what PGI needs to do.

First, invading a planet shouldn't be about taking out an orbital gun, it should be about capturing territory. That being the case ditch the stupid destroy generator objectives.

Then just make the attack about driving the enemy off the planet or destroying them utterly. Why? because this is what attackers do to win an objective. Simple logic really.

Then you give the defender only 3 waves or 36 mechs against the attacker having 4 waves or 48 mechs. Then if necessary you beef up the defensive positions with more or stronger turrets, maybe toss in a mine field or two and make the orbital gun, a fort where the enemy can fall back on it and hold it till the last man.

Then to add some spice to the game. Make the generators control the turret defenses and minefields so that taking one out, neutralizes a entire section of the defenses, including the man generator at the cannon neutralizing the fort area defenses.

Generator Destruction Incentive, 25k bonus C-bills to everyone on the attacking team per generator destroyed.

Winning conditions:

Attacker: Destroy all enemy mechs
Defender: Destroy all enemy mechs or hold out until timer expires.

Simple, fun, insures everyone is getting a good battle, no gimicky tactics required to win and probably more importantly requires very little modification on PGIs part to make happen. Hell they could probably throw this modification to the system into place in a week.

this is well thought out for a quick fix while they sort something bigger and better out, something like DV Mckenna has stated

[Savage Wolf]

Sounds good as long as it's an additional mode and not a replacement for the current Invasion mode which is mostly awesome already.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Savage Wolf, on 21 December 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Sounds good as long as it's an additional mode and not a replacement for the current Invasion mode which is mostly awesome already.

Don't see the awesome about it which is why I posted this.

Attacking as a PUG is virtually impossible to do with maybe a 1 in 10 chance to win against another PUG and pretty much zero chance to win against a 12 man. 12 man attacks are still all about the zerg rush only instead of one semi-hard targets you have 4 easy ones. Attacker mostly suicides the gens while defender tries to burn down the attackers before they can kill the gens. PUG defenses are pretty much successful against PUGs but usually fail against 12 mans again who zerg the gens and generally take the win in under 10 mins.

All of this is boring as hell because aside from PUG vs PUG, no one actually fights and even PUG vs PUG the zerg rush is catching on again meaning no one actually fights. By making the invasions, skirmish, you insure that the two opposing teams actually fight which is amazingly fun when it happens.

[Jack Corban]

let me leave this here.

[Savage Wolf]

Viktor Drake, on 21 December 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Don't see the awesome about it which is why I posted this.

Attacking as a PUG is virtually impossible to do with maybe a 1 in 10 chance to win against another PUG and pretty much zero chance to win against a 12 man. 12 man attacks are still all about the zerg rush only instead of one semi-hard targets you have 4 easy ones. Attacker mostly suicides the gens while defender tries to burn down the attackers before they can kill the gens. PUG defenses are pretty much successful against PUGs but usually fail against 12 mans again who zerg the gens and generally take the win in under 10 mins.

All of this is boring as hell because aside from PUG vs PUG, no one actually fights and even PUG vs PUG the zerg rush is catching on again meaning no one actually fights. By making the invasions, skirmish, you insure that the two opposing teams actually fight which is amazingly fun when it happens.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that this is simply how YOU experience it. Why will you not acknowledge that there are others who currently have a ton of fun with this mode and insist that their fun be taken away. There are already three skirmish modes, yes currently none in CW, but we only have this one mode.

Why can you not be content with both of us having fun with having two different game modes instead of one?

[VenturePilot]

Kdogg788, on 21 December 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

.destroy bridges and other strategic targets
.take a city over district by district

So choice between capturing and destroying bridge? destroy = having to take long way capture = going short way, but its defended, to a final objective (supply depot maybe?)

then having a clausterphobic dense city map... I likey

[Mystere]

Viktor Drake, on 21 December 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Again I am not arguing what CW actually needs to have to be successful in the long run, I am talking about a quick fix to what we have currently that would make CW more fun and meaningful.

I'd rather PGI stays the course (but tell us, please PGI!) rather than resort to more "quick fixes". We all already know how those ended up.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Savage Wolf, on 21 December 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that this is simply how YOU experience it. Why will you not acknowledge that there are others who currently have a ton of fun with this mode and insist that their fun be taken away. There are already three skirmish modes, yes currently none in CW, but we only have this one mode.

Why can you not be content with both of us having fun with having two different game modes instead of one?

Salvage Wolf, I understand your having fun and there is nothing wrong with that. What I am after is the rest of us having fun too. I mean your seriously going to tell me that you wouldn't have more fun actually fighting the enemy unit than suicide rushing the generators??

Also let me ask this question. What makes CW so fun for you? Are you sure it is how the battles go or is it something else like its new and different or perhaps you find yourself getting better rewards than you could manage in random PUGs. Seriously ask yourself why you enjoy it and then ask yourself if you couldn't enjoy it more if it functioned differently.

Also I am really curious as to your answer. You say you enjoy it but never why they you take the fact I would like to see it changed personally like I am trying to attack you specifically. I just don't understand it. I just want the game to improve and judging by the number of people complaining about the way CW works, I am not in the minority who thinks the modes we have now aren't coming close to cutting it or all that fun.

[KraftySOT]

Just no.

[Savage Wolf]

Viktor Drake, on 21 December 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

Salvage Wolf, I understand your having fun and there is nothing wrong with that. What I am after is the rest of us having fun too. I mean your seriously going to tell me that you wouldn't have more fun actually fighting the enemy unit than suicide rushing the generators??

Yes.

Viktor Drake, on 21 December 2014 - 01:54 PM, said:

Also let me ask this question. What makes CW so fun for you? Are you sure it is how the battles go or is it something else like its new and different or perhaps you find yourself getting better rewards than you could manage in random PUGs. Seriously ask yourself why you enjoy it and then ask yourself if you couldn't enjoy it more if it functioned differently.

Also I am really curious as to your answer. You say you enjoy it but never why they you take the fact I would like to see it changed personally like I am trying to attack you specifically. I just don't understand it. I just want the game to improve and judging by the number of people complaining about the way CW works, I am not in the minority who thinks the modes we have now aren't coming close to cutting it or all that fun.

Where you see gimmicks, I see tactics. One side trying to outsmart the other to leave open a path to the objective. And the defenders trying their best to see through the attackers tactics and counter them effectively. It's a battle of wits instead of a battle of brawns.

And yes, it's a suicide run for the attackers, but strategy for me has always been about using your mechs as ressources that must be used most effectively to get you closer to victory. It doesn't matter that you lose mechs if you got closer to the goal.

Skills at fighting, with good aim and able to spread damage and all that is still a part of it, but now as part of a bigger whole. And I now see defenders use scouts!! I've never seen that happen in the game before. As a defending commander we had a wave come in from beta and recalled all scouts to fight there, but one of the scouts left an UAV at alpha and thus spotted a flanking attack from that gate. So that smart cookie proved his skill as a scout, something not really used in other game modes.

This is what I love. To me, the game just got bigger. See new builds not used before because they serve a niche which wasn't useful before, but here it is.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Savage Wolf, on 21 December 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

Yes.



Where you see gimmicks, I see tactics. One side trying to outsmart the other to leave open a path to the objective. And the defenders trying their best to see through the attackers tactics and counter them effectively. It's a battle of wits instead of a battle of brawns.

And yes, it's a suicide run for the attackers, but strategy for me has always been about using your mechs as ressources that must be used most effectively to get you closer to victory. It doesn't matter that you lose mechs if you got closer to the goal.

Skills at fighting, with good aim and able to spread damage and all that is still a part of it, but now as part of a bigger whole. And I now see defenders use scouts!! I've never seen that happen in the game before. As a defending commander we had a wave come in from beta and recalled all scouts to fight there, but one of the scouts left an UAV at alpha and thus spotted a flanking attack from that gate. So that smart cookie proved his skill as a scout, something not really used in other game modes.

This is what I love. To me, the game just got bigger. See new builds not used before because they serve a niche which wasn't useful before, but here it is.

Honestly, I am not sure what to say. Zerging involves zero strategy, you just ball up and rush in the direction of the generator and then try to destroy it before the enemy destroys you. There is zero skill behind it and honestly any 12 warm bodies could do just as good a job at it as any other, providing they all can concept the simple commands of ball up, run to generator, kill generator, ignore everything else. Sorry man you can spin it however you want to but that is all there is too the zerg.

Sure you can try to throw a few lights out the other gate and hope the enemy squirrels to make things easier for the rush but you really don't even have to do that for a zerg to work. If you can't see that, well we are going to have to agree to disagree on what is tactics and what isn't.

Anyway it is ok. Not going to bust your balls on it or how you see the game anymore. Suffice to say, I and likely the vast majority of the people playing CW see the zerg as a poor substitute for a game mode that actually allows for tactical game play that involves actually fighting the enemy units.

[Kirkland Langue]

I'm cool with new game modes, but I LIKE this game mode.

While I can think of a number of tweaks which could be made - I genuinely believe that it would be a very bad idea for PGI to change this game mode much. Right now it actually feels like a battle, unlike the stupid 1and-done fights that we've had since day one that, even though there are 3 game modes, all feel basically dry.

Edited by Kirkland Langue, 21 December 2014 - 05:57 PM.