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[Clarification] Closed Beta vs Open Beta Vs Release/Launch (and Status)


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#1 RumRunner151

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:34 PM

I think clarification is needed on some terms and how they relate to the status of the game. A lot of people in Beta are (still) confused on some issues and with the dropping of the NDA, more people will be confused. I hope the following makes sense and is helpful and accurate.

As used by PGI:
Closed Beta: Current Status.
Open Beta: Goal: 8 Mechs, 4 maps, basic features. "Minimum Viable Product" (MVP).
Release/Launch: Community Warfare has been released.

Opinion:
The goals of Open Beta have been met. Actually, they have been exceeded in some areas (we have 9 Mechs with 2 to 4 variants as an example). I play probably 15 to 30 hours per week and enjoy it immensely. It is easily the best Mechwarrior title as is without the bells/whistles/icing that are still planned. It is easily "MVP".


Common statements which cause confusion:
"It needs Community Warfare for launch!" I agree, and it is stated to be so. It will not be in for Open Beta.

"In a F2P title, Open Beta is Launch!" Maybe traditionally, but not here. Some will argue this point. IMO they can argue the ocean should be purple too..it does not match the facts of this reality.


Current Status:
What are the main Pillars of this game and Where do we stand as compared to the Dev Blogs?
1) Role Warfare - Mostly complete except for modules. There are only 2 modules currently. Not only are there different roles, but depending on it's loadout, one mech can be used for multiple roles.
http://mwomercs.com/...3-role-warfare/
http://mwomercs.com/...e-warfare-cont/

2) Information Warfare - About 1/2 implemented. We have maps, orders, etc. We do not have Magnetometer, Sattelite, or any Disruption/Spoofing.
http://mwomercs.com/...mation-warfare/

3) Community Warfare - Yet to be implemented. What we have now is the "Lone Wolf" experience. I.e. This is what someone w8ill experience who was not part of a House (Davion, Liao, Kurita, etc.) or a Mercenary Group. They will essentially jump into battle to assist a House or Merc Group.
http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/

4) Mech Lab - Implemented, but scheduled for a revision with the implementation of Double Heat Sinks, Ferro-Fibrous Armor, Endo Steel Internal Structure, ECM, etc. Also no skins/color schemes, etc.
http://mwomercs.com/...blog-6-mechlab/

5) Mech Warfare - Happy to say this is a home run. Does it still need tweaks, minor balancing, etc? Sure and it will be continually refined as new features are implemented. But as is, it is not only playable but very well done IMO.
http://mwomercs.com/...warfare-part-i/

Overall:
So far it is amazing...what is yet to come will be even more amazing based on what has been done so far.


Important point to make clear:
Closed Beta = Possible Resets even though at this point in Closed Beta, they are trying for no more resets (Except ONCE at the START of OPEN BETA)
Open Beta = One Final Reset. Anything bought with real $$ such as Founder's Perks and MC are for keeps once Open Beta starts. Any Premium Time bought with $$ or given as part of Founder's Perks starts ticking for real once Open Beta begins.
Launch = No More Resets
(Thanks to Kell Draygo)

Latest "official" status:

View PostRuss Bullock, on 24 August 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Hey MechWarrior Fans,

I know recently there has been a huge amount of conversation and speculation on where the product currently stands. Including speculation on certain features, certain mech's, when were going open beta and are we going to be ready.

Let's start with where we are today- we're in closed beta. This means only the founders are playing along with an increasing amount of random closed beta applicants. It was recently explained exactly what closed beta means and I think everyone is very understanding and having a great time playing.

I think where things get a little contested is in trying to understand what the game will have at Open Beta or at launch. A recent interview I gave mentioned their being 4 maps and 8 mechs at Open Beta. None of this was really brand new information but it may have caught people off guard. These things also change rapidly, in fact as you know we already have 8 mechs along with their variants and were not in Open Beta yet, in fact Mechs 9 and 10 are both getting very close to game shape and will certainly be in before Open Beta. The next maps are already started which will likely make me a liar on the map count as well. In short Mech's and maps are going to flow at a very constant rate.

When is Open Beta- honestly we're always working towards a date and we have one in mind right now. Does it have us keeping our summer 2012 promise? Frankly no, it would slip into October. With that in mind ,chew on this thought. We brought our first beta testers into Friends and Family just about exactly 4 months ago. Ask those players if they think the game has changed a little bit in those 4 months and I think they would tell you that it is shocking how much it has progressed. So in another couple of months it can certainly improve a significant amount more. But ultimately even this Open Beta date is not set in stone, if it needs a little more time then we will make the best decision for the product, everyone at Piranha and IGP is committed to that.

So what is the basic roadmap? Here is the best I can do for you currently.

- The next ~couple of months we stay in closed beta. We continue to update the lone wolf experience by finishing off the economy of the game by putting in the remaining play loop features like repair and rearm, pilot skills and modules. We spend some time balancing the economy while every aspect of the game including User Interface, HUD, Networking code as well as 'mech collisions are hardened, optimized, and polished. While including as many 'mechs and maps as we can manage. In summary, polish off the MVP feature set which is described as the "lone wolf" play experience.

- The product goes into Open Beta - very frequent minor updates continue along with a steady stream of 'mechs and maps. While this is going on a large portion of the team is working on the first major update for the game.

- About ~3 months after Open Beta we ship the first major update for the game which is Community Warfare or the first iteration of the overarching meta game. This of course is a huge feature which takes the fight across all the factions and the entire inner sphere.

- After community warfare is introduced into the product we will likely officially "launch" shortly after.

- A few months after launch the next major update is released which of course is all about the clan invasion.

In summary, all of the best laid plans change in game development. But the game is already extremely fun and I'm sure you are all glad to be playing now and not waiting months longer. Remember, you screamed to get in. So enjoy your time in the game and just be excited knowing that an entire development team is working on nothing but MWO to bring you weekly updates and there is no end in sight for the work or feature updates. You may need to wait a few more months for the meta game but rest assured it is coming. As well as countless other features.

See you on the battlefield.


Please feel free to point out any inaccuracies, items that need clarification, or differing opinions and I will revise my post as needed.

Thank you, I hope this helped, and I look forward to seeing you all in game soon.

Edited by RumRunner151, 03 October 2012 - 01:22 PM.


#2 Vermaxx

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 12:58 PM

The current beta is a combat engine, nothing more. Four maps, however many mechs, one game mode. It runs pretty smoothly, but the beta is in no way a fair snapshot of the game at large.

It shows how combat will work in the greater framework of the full game, at least. Open beta is probably around the corner, what with the Iron Curtain coming down.

I do not personally feel the game is ready for an open beta, they should have just delayed things until community warfare was close to ready. It feels like a money grab frankly.

Hopefully I am being paranoid, and the game is doing well financially. Because if it isn't, open beta with such a lean game version isn't going to save it.

#3 Kell Draygo

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:07 PM

The reason why most will consider Open Beta for this game as Live Release is mainly that there are no more resets of data once the game goes Open Beta. So data is live and permanent, that also means that whatever goodies you pay for with real money is also permanent. MC that you use to buy Mechs used in Open Beta is permanent, the premium status on your Founders account kicks in on Open Beta.

So technically the game can be labeled as Open Beta but in most people's definition, once you start spending money on a game that will effect your game play permanently, it's a live release.

Now if there is one more reset when the game shifts from Open Beta to Live, then it will be a true beta.

#4 ZoomThruPoom

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:17 PM

This whole thing is really starting to feel more and more like a cash grab.

Edited by ZoomThruPoom, 03 October 2012 - 01:17 PM.


#5 victorvndoom

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:26 PM

why didnt they join Kickstart ? then they banked 8.000.000 easily

#6 RumRunner151

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:29 PM

View PostKell Draygo, on 03 October 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

The reason why most will consider Open Beta for this game as Live Release is mainly that there are no more resets of data once the game goes Open Beta. So data is live and permanent, that also means that whatever goodies you pay for with real money is also permanent. MC that you use to buy Mechs used in Open Beta is permanent, the premium status on your Founders account kicks in on Open Beta.

So technically the game can be labeled as Open Beta but in most people's definition, once you start spending money on a game that will effect your game play permanently, it's a live release.

Now if there is one more reset when the game shifts from Open Beta to Live, then it will be a true beta.

I think what you said is so important to make clear, that I have added it to my original post and quoted it here with extra emphasis.

As for your point...while I get it, it is irrelevant. PGI has laid it out as is and I have seen no indications of change. Open Beta = MVP. Launch/Release = All major aspects are included. If you want to think of Open Beta as Release because the money is real at that point...so be it. But in this game, based on PGI definitions, OB != Launch.

Again though, real $$ is live at the start of Open Beta. And MC you spend is gone for good. Premium Accounts start ticking. This is very important for people to know, since I think many would expect that $$ does not matter until after Beta, which is incorrect.

#7 Bubba Wilkins

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:31 PM

It's only a cash grab when you have nothing to show for your purchase.

All the Founders perks are permanent and the premium time will yield significant income bonuses which you get to keep. It would only be shady if these things were wiped clean and you had to start from scratch later without being refunded those same starting perks.

#8 Davion5150

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

View PostRumRunner151, on 03 October 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

But in this game, based on PGI definitions, OB != Launch


When I bought my Founder's Package, it stated
Two-month premium account to MechWarrior Online at launch: Earn XP & C-Bills faster.

PGI says my premium starts at Open Beta.

Therefore PGI says OB = Launch. To me, I don't really care for the OB equals or does not equal Launch arguements. What I do care about is that I would rather have my premium time when there is actual content that makes me want to play alot. I also am not going to care for all the 'Its beta' responses that will be made after Launch, I mean Open Beta.

#9 Shismar

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:48 PM

Open Beta will be release. For the main reason mentioned above: It's on with the moneys!

I don't mind. I had a free beta invite and I decided to invest into the game. If it shuts down tomorrow I'll be sad, but I got my money's worth these past weeks.

As much as I like the game, development has become very slow. It really feels like most of the team is busy somewhere else. Been there, done that. I just hope they get their act together and deliver.

#10 pingtoohuy

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 01:49 PM

View PostZoomThruPoom, on 03 October 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

This whole thing is really starting to feel more and more like a cash grab.


I've been in Beta since early August, and average 15 hours a week "testing :( " so I have about 120 hours in. I gave them $60 for the opportunity to get in back then and have enjoyed every minute of it. So you can either say I've paid them 50 cents an hour to test their product for them, or, I gotten my entertainment costs down to 50 cents an hour. :( Either way, I am a happy camper.

BTW, did you call it a "cash grab" when Apple introduced the iPhone 3 and it had antenna problems? or were you just happy that they did right by their customers, and got the design right eventually.

#11 RumRunner151

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:03 PM

View PostZoomThruPoom, on 03 October 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

This whole thing is really starting to feel more and more like a cash grab.


It is and it isnt.

It is: The Founders Package was too. IMO based on the development style of this title and the fact that no one would Pony up the Cash for a AAA title, both are consistent with the goal. They need money to fund the continued development. Seems logical to me.

It isn't: "Cash Grab" has a negative connotation. Seedy, shady like a con. If this was the case, they would have taken our founder's $$ and closed their doors as opposed to making huge strides in development since then. As such, I have no doubts that any $$ collected during Open Beta will continue to be used to develop this game and make improvements.

PGI is a "For Profit" company. They are not developing this game out of the goodness of their hearts with the expectation of no income.

View PostDavion5150, on 03 October 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:


When I bought my Founder's Package, it stated
Two-month premium account to MechWarrior Online at launch: Earn XP & C-Bills faster.

PGI says my premium starts at Open Beta.

Therefore PGI says OB = Launch. To me, I don't really care for the OB equals or does not equal Launch arguements. What I do care about is that I would rather have my premium time when there is actual content that makes me want to play alot. I also am not going to care for all the 'Its beta' responses that will be made after Launch, I mean Open Beta.

To be fair. The Founders notice was released in 2 forms on June 19th - Web and Email. The Web one said launch, the email said Open Beta. Obviously someoen in marketing was confused. However all the details released were consistent with Open Beta. I think feeling a little deceived due to the mix up is fair and as far as I know some people have demanded refunds for that reason and received them.

View PostShismar, on 03 October 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

I had a free beta invite and I decided to invest into the game. If it shuts down tomorrow I'll be sad, but I got my money's worth these past weeks. As much as I like the game, development has become very slow. It really feels like most of the team is busy somewhere else. Been there, done that. I just hope they get their act together and deliver.

I agree with the first part...if development shut down tomorrow, I would be very disappointed, but I would still feel that I didn't waste my $$ nor would I try to get a refund.

As for the 2nd part. Look what all has been accomplished. Look at the improvements just in the past couple of months...mech, map, modules, R&R, economy, several balance passes...

I think they are moving pretty fast.

Edited by RumRunner151, 03 October 2012 - 02:05 PM.


#12 Sivade

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:28 PM

I want my Premium Time to be used for LIVE as they stated. I don't want to waste Premium Time on Open Beta when there is no Community Warfare.

#13 RumRunner151

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 02:45 PM

View PostSivade, on 03 October 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

I want my Premium Time to be used for LIVE as they stated. I don't want to waste Premium Time on Open Beta when there is no Community Warfare.

I think that is a valid argument. I initially thought that way, but then I changed my mind. My thinking was, wouldn't I want to use my Premium and MC bonuses at the time when it was hardest to make money and when money mattered the most? At the beginning of Open Beta, I lose all of my mechs, cbills, etc. and need to earn them back to enjoy the game the way I want. At Launch, I should have so many mechs and cbills that the "premium" is close to worthless. So, I'd rather have it at the start of Open Beta. If I want premium at launch, I can always pay $$ then if needed and if I am still really enjoying this game that much at launch (hope so), I will have no problem dropping more $$.

Totally understand the other side of the argument, especially if you spent your $$ based off the "launch" info. Not trying to say that is invalid, just offering my changed view in case it helps.

#14 Belorion

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

If the game never becomes more than what it is now, it would be a very fun game indeed.

It will, however, become more than what it is now.

Its just pvp right now, and will be pvp for a while yet, but I find pvp to be challenging and fun.

#15 RumRunner151

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:29 PM

View PostBelorion, on 03 October 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

If the game never becomes more than what it is now, it would be a very fun game indeed.

It will, however, become more than what it is now.

Its just pvp right now, and will be pvp for a while yet, but I find pvp to be challenging and fun.

It will always be PVP, but you are right that it will become much more. You will have a reason/purpose to PVP as opposed to simply enjoying it as we do now.

#16 Vermaxx

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:42 PM

View PostBelorion, on 03 October 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

If the game never becomes more than what it is now, it would be a very fun game indeed.


It gets boring quickly. Every previous Mechwarrior game had server options to vary the fight signficantly. We can't do that here.


View PostBelorion, on 03 October 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

It will, however, become more than what it is now. Its just pvp right now, and will be pvp for a while yet, but I find pvp to be challenging and fun.


They have yet to prove to me that the game will survive long enough to hit the 'final' (ish) version. Too many things seem fishy:

They plan a release timeline to match the 'news posts' day for day in 2012 with 3049, and faill miserably. Now the main feature everyone wanted is months off.

They quote several ends to the founder program, then ignore every one of them. Founder is advertised everywhere as access to closed beta, not as a testing commitment (there are banner ads all over the internet).

Last stage of closed beta forced you to buy MC or test like a free player. Fine, it needed to come. Then suddenly, you can buy PCGAMER magazine and get into the closed beta, again with nothing about the testing commitment. THEN, they roll into OB almost immediately (it can't be far off now that the NDA is gone). The game is still missing, the game, and it is going to 'nearly done' status.

The founder bonuses, originally stated to start "at release" but never clearly defined, now start at open beta. A huge portion of the subscribers are unhappy, but it is not under review, it has been proclaimed and there is no sign it will be changed.

They quote 60 thousand founders and I never see more than 5% of that online. I'm told the number shown is just the number in a match. Fine, there are never more than 5% of founders in a match, the rest are offline or trolling the mechbay. What about the unfounder accounts? There have to be at least half as many of those, and that makes the active gaming population even less than 5%.

This entire time, the teaser site has been using outdated play video from the single-player game engine that got scrapped.

I could just be paranoid, and burned from previous games, and I really hope I am. Any one of these alone is meaningless, and just a couple wouldn't be scary either. All together it feels like PGI (who supposedly has a bad track record with F2P titles) is trying to raise money to finish, and honoring all the founder promises early in the hopes that if things do fail they won't have to refund anything.

#17 Camaro

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 03:43 PM

I'm glad I didn't spend the money on a Founders Pack. Nobody should be charged for time in beta.

If real money starts burning, call it DONE, not beta. Seems like calling it beta is a goat for an inferior product that you charge for.

But then would development have been able to progress as it did with fewer Founders Pack sales?

#18 xRaeder

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:48 PM

So does the Premium stuff start yet? Have the devs said that it will start when you first log in? Sorry I've been AFK from the forums for several months.

#19 DirePhoenix

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:52 PM

View PostCamaro, on 03 October 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

I'm glad I didn't spend the money on a Founders Pack. Nobody should be charged for time in beta.

If real money starts burning, call it DONE, not beta. Seems like calling it beta is a goat for an inferior product that you charge for.

But then would development have been able to progress as it did with fewer Founders Pack sales?


Nobody is being charged for time in beta right now. Closed beta testers can purchase Mechwarrior Credits (MC) and help test out the microtransaction system (which needs to be done), but they'll get refunded whatever they spend now whenever open beta starts. I'm fairly certain that Premium subscription time gets reset when open beta hits too.

#20 Landsharkk

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 05:19 PM

View PostCamaro, on 03 October 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

I'm glad I didn't spend the money on a Founders Pack. Nobody should be charged for time in beta.

If real money starts burning, call it DONE, not beta. Seems like calling it beta is a goat for an inferior product that you charge for.

But then would development have been able to progress as it did with fewer Founders Pack sales?

View PostDirePhoenix, on 03 October 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:


Nobody is being charged for time in beta right now. Closed beta testers can purchase Mechwarrior Credits (MC) and help test out the microtransaction system (which needs to be done), but they'll get refunded whatever they spend now whenever open beta starts. I'm fairly certain that Premium subscription time gets reset when open beta hits too.



This is the reason I have asked for a refund of my founders package, and so far they are processing the refund. I REFUSE to pay for a beta test of any game (originally they stated that the premium time would start 'at launch', later they adjust this statement to say 'open beta', but not after thousands had already purchased a founders package). Never have in the past, never will in the future. I've never seen a game require the testers to pay to test. It's a disgrace to those willing to put up real money to help the game too.

Considering the client is barely stable after each patch (requiring a full uninstall that gets corrupted every time, manually having to delete registry keys and all game folders, then rebooting, redownloading and re-installing every single time), this game is far from ready for open beta. I'm glad I asked for a refund when I did. Getting 15fps in the game using a GTX670 is ridiculous. The upcoming game engine update better do what they say it is and make the game actually playable.

At this point my confidence is lacking and this lift of the NDA at such an early stage cries of a cash grab by PGI.





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